The west is burning! (2 Viewers)

[Denny Crane]

Part of the problem with using human intervention to thin is cost. There are far fewer logging operations now than 20-30 years ago and the margins on a selective cut are a lot tighter than a clearcut, so it can be tough to incentivize companies to bother with it - economies of scale are a big reason there are lot fewer small logging companies anymore in the Pacific Northwest. The other problem is the sheer scale in terms of millions of acres that would have to be treated for there to be a meaningful impact. And that assumes you could even come up with a plan that would satisfy the litigious environmental groups.

I don't know what the solution is, it's a real problem.

The article says it costs a lot more to let the forests go and deal with the fires than to thin them out and control the fires.

Makes sense.

 

[Denny Crane]

Managed only in settled areas? Now you’re trying to misdirect us from your true agenda.

We now call un-managed forest areas dead zones, not wilderness areas. I can show you many very large dead zones created in un-managed forests.

Reason for the large dead zones; very few plants can survive in un-managed areas. This also means there is little to no food to eat for the animals and birds, so they leave.

What has happened in the un-managed forest/wilderness areas is the crown cover has grown so thick and tall, it does not allow any sunlight to filter to the forest floor. Without sunlight, photosynthesis will not take place for the undergrowth or younger trees, so they die.

Your natural wildness area agenda loves the forest to death, literally.

Give the guy a break. He's one of the smartest guys who posts here and he has no "agenda" about any of this.

 

[oldfisherman]

The Native American Indians used fires to manage the PNW forests, not just in the Willamette valley. And it went on for thousands of years, according to Indian lore. The fires were mainly used to improve habitat to attract game animals. The fires made hunting easier and more productive with less travel.

The earliest documentation of thinning fires was in the Bitterroot Mountains of Idaho. Lewis & Clark reported in their journals of being shocked by their Nez Perce Indian guide intentionally starting a forest fire. From my old memory without checking dates, I believe they were 3-5 days journey from the nearest village, and on the return trip.

This fire was started in the same area where Lewis and Clark almost starved to death on their trip west. They went many days without seeing anything to eat. They eat several of their young horses to stay alive. There where very few areas over a 10 day period that had feed for the horses. That large wilderness area in the Bitterroots described in the L&C journals is a classic description of an un-managed dead zone wilderness.

Maybe the Indian guide was using the fire to improve the habitat for the game animals and the horses? That is only my guess. Lewis and Clark did not understand why he started the fire, they just reported it.

Even history teaches us that un-managed forest wilderness areas turn into dead zones. Why repeat history?

 

[Nikolokolus]

The article says it costs a lot more to let the forests go and deal with the fires than to thin them out and control the fires.

Makes sense.

Perhaps, but again I see this as more of a logistics problem than a political one. Low manpower, low political will, no money in it.

 

[Denny Crane]

Perhaps, but again I see this as more of a logistics problem than a political one. Low manpower, low political will, no money in it.

If the government is spending $200M fighting the fires, but it would cost $50M a year to keep the undergrowth cleaned out, someone is going to bid for that $50M contract and provide the service. No?

The government was doing it all along. Then during the Clinton years, they stopped. And they tried that controlled fire that almost burned down the Los Alamos labs

So I don't think it's a new idea.

 

[riverman]

I'd love to see my country stop spending fortunes on policing the world and funnel it into infrastructure for a change. Forest management is cheaper than having an army on the border of North Korea or military bases in Germany I think, without doing the math. While they're managing the forest they might also bury the power lines and build high speed rails. Maybe a few desalination plants to pump up the water supply

 

[PDXFonz]

California has wild fires every year.

There are wildfires in that part of eastern Washington often too.

 

[KingSpeed]

Saw the pic on the internets. Amazing!

I needed a spot to sleep while on a recent road trip and found an epic vantage point above Snoqualmie Pass, WA. Multiple wildfires, and Seattle's light pollution made for a very intense scene!

During a recent road trip up north, I spent the night out of Snoqualmie Pass, WA. Epic light pollution from Seattle's suburbs, multiple wild fires, and the 90 interstate winding through the mountains made for some incredible lighting to frame Mt. Ranier and the milky way rising above it.

Unbelievable photo

 

[speeds]

The smoke is here in Calgary, now.

 

[Denny Crane]

The smoke is here in Calgary, now.

You make it sound like Calgary sucks and Seattle blows.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

You make it sound like Calgary sucks and Seattle blows.

Mrs HCP does both!

 

[riverman]

At least in the pacific nw the it's easy to find folks with a high tolerance for smoke

 

[BlazerWookee]

The Native American Indians used fires to manage the PNW forests, not just in the Willamette valley. And it went on for thousands of years, according to Indian lore. The fires were mainly used to improve habitat to attract game animals. The fires made hunting easier and more productive with less travel.

The earliest documentation of thinning fires was in the Bitterroot Mountains of Idaho. Lewis & Clark reported in their journals of being shocked by their Nez Perce Indian guide intentionally starting a forest fire. From my old memory without checking dates, I believe they were 3-5 days journey from the nearest village, and on the return trip.

This fire was started in the same area where Lewis and Clark almost starved to death on their trip west. They went many days without seeing anything to eat. They eat several of their young horses to stay alive. There where very few areas over a 10 day period that had feed for the horses. That large wilderness area in the Bitterroots described in the L&C journals is a classic description of an un-managed dead zone wilderness.

Maybe the Indian guide was using the fire to improve the habitat for the game animals and the horses? That is only my guess. Lewis and Clark did not understand why he started the fire, they just reported it.

Even history teaches us that un-managed forest wilderness areas turn into dead zones. Why repeat history?

Maybe they were being followed?

 

[BlazerWookee]

Mrs HCP does both!

So does Mr. HCP!

 

[BlazerWookee]

At least in the pacific nw the it's easy to find folks with a high tolerance for smoke

Heyooooooh!