There has to be a partial house cleaning in the off-season

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JD30 said:
Right on the money Prod. No playoff type role players who play with grit except for maybe Zuc. Rest of roster just believes in "puck possession", finesse crap preached by coach. You still need those few guys who are always in other teams face to keep other team honest. We have none
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Kreider should be that guy more consistently. Guys like Miller and Hayes are getting a playoff education. The only guys who really come to play in the playoffs are Brassard and Hags.
 
Ha, Glass. Here's a fun stat: Tanner Glass is the only Rangers player who has played in all 9 postseason games and doesnt have a point. Keep throwing him out there AV. He's also dragged down Dom Moore incredibly, who was an important playoff guy last year. Dom Moore is built for the playoffs. The black hole on his left has destroyed his game and made us a 3 line team.
 
They could get those players with trades. The two biggest chips I see are Nash and Yandle. Agree, they probably will keep Stepan but he has to be moved to wing because he is just completely incompetent on draws.
 
theProdigy223 said:
Ha, Glass. Here's a fun stat: Tanner Glass is the only Rangers player who has played in all 9 postseason games and doesnt have a point. Keep throwing him out there AV. He's also dragged down Dom Moore incredibly, who was an important playoff guy last year. Dom Moore is built for the playoffs. The black hole on his left has destroyed his game and made us a 3 line team.
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Agree 100%
 
Messiah717 said:
Kreider should be that guy more consistently. Guys like Miller and Hayes are getting a playoff education. The only guys who really come to play in the playoffs are Brassard and Hags.
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I like Miller's game thus far. No idea why he was demoted last night. He's got a little bit of Dubinsky in him and plays with fire. I might be pusing it a little to call Hayes "soft" but the kid is so damn big and I've seen him throw maybe 3 good hits all year. I have no idea if he's going to develop that part of his game. The big body will at least help.

Hags and Zucc are good playoff guys, but they're too small to physically impose on anybody. Which gets me back to my original point in that Nash is getting the shit kicked out of him every shift and the rest of the smurfs on this team can't do anything to bang back or create some space for him. Again, not an excuse for Nash because a true star fights through that, but this team gives him no help the way it's constructed.
 
Glass has played ok in this series. Had sa golden chance last night and bloodied up Gleason but his offense is not existent. Dorsett had a great season in Vancouver... That was a dumb trade off
 
Chris Kreider just might be one of the dumbest guys out there. He has let the league/refs intimidate him away from playing like a beast (at least it appears that way) cause he rarely finishes a forcheck and rarely steps in for a teammate. At times, he manages the puck well using his size and goes to the net but then will try to use finesse which he has none of. Do you think anyone has told him to just skate up and down his wing, bang, and go to the net ??? Not sure- but even with his gifts of size and speed he is just lost out there. I thought he would emerge into a playoff type " in your face" player after his splash onto the scene in playoffs a few years back but he just doesnt show up for every game.
 
Size...LOL.

Kreider has size, Nash has size, Miller has size, Hayes has size. How have those guys performed in the playoffs? CK, JT, KH are young so not getting on them, but they all have size.

MSL doesn't have size, but played a very key role last season, his issue is age now not size.

Brass has 1/3 of our playoff goals...he have size?

Hags is our next best forward...he have size?

So I don't buy the size thing. I do think the fix of Moore up and Miller down when we cannot score was not nearly enough of a move, and I actually think it was a dumb move to move Miller down. I do think playing Glass kills any O the 4th line may have, but with Zucc out we don't have a great option to sit Glass anyway, plus Glass has gotten chances (cannot finish) and is our only tough guy.

On D we worried about size? Is that killing us as the Caps have SEVEN goals in 4 games...SEVEN. Not IMO. The top 4 is real good. We kill McD for not being that special talent we expected, but last I checked the Caps aren't scoring much AND OV has done nothing the past two games. McD is off the 1st PP unit and isn't providing O, so that is an issue, but his D has been real solid outside of one bad play last night. McD/G and Staal/Klein is a great top 4. I will go to battle with that top 4 everyday of the week. To me the BY FAR biggest issue on D has been Yandle. Bad D and zero O. Killer.

I just don't see size as this huge issue. Just my opinion.
 
Honestly I don't see many players moving out. Next season they'll enter the playoffs with much of the same roster.... Just please don't sign Justin Williams
 
Kreider's game took a huge nose dive after he was thrown out of the Wild game for sending that guy into the boards from the redline. Games 2 and 3 of this series were the first games the real Kreider had shown up since. It's so frustrating because you see what the kid can do almost at will, he just doesnt seem to want to do it very often.
 
Agree 100% on Glass. Glass is a Vigneault man from his Vancouver run. The guy provides no spark, hardly forechecks with grit and rarely ever fights when necessary. He has sucked all year and taken a roster spot away from a younger, more hungry player
 
Chuck it's not size as much as it's style. Lot of finesse, and some of the guys that try to play in a playoff style arent big enough to be as effective as we need them to be.
 
With the way these games are playing out if they would wake the hell up they could make things interesting. Instead of throwing everyone's name out there in the blame game it's very simple. You start with your best. Nash is the #1 culprit. I mean I know we don't like him but Glass is not the reason the team is not scoring. If the top offensive guys were doing their job we wouldn't be focusing on the bottom forward lines or bottom d pairs and trying to cast blame.
 
The team is soft in front of the net and in the corners. Guys with size are often the guys that get garbage goals which you need in the playoffs. Pouliot had 5 goals, 5 assists in the playoffs In other words, he did in the playoffs what he did in the regular season. Kreider was great last year in the playoffs and has had a lot of big plays in the playoffs. He's being dragged down by the incompetence of Nash and Stepan IMO.
 
On the Yandle front...it's obvious we need more from him. Big disappointment os far. But we've had numerous discussions on this board about how difficult AV's system is for defenseman, how much it leaves them on an island and how long it takes them to pick it up. They start out brutally every season. Yandle didnt have a training camp. He came in at a time when the schedule picked up and there were games almost every day. I think he has a big year next year after a training camp and full season playing AV hockey. This system is built for players like him.

Sather wanted him for years and gave up a lot to get him. They arent gonna give up on him after 30 something games.
 
I said from day one that putting Glass on the 4th line would kill any offense on that line and that is exactly what has happened. The 4th line won games last year with some offense. To me, there will be major changes next year if they lose this series. There is no freakin way Sather isn't going to kick some ass after being embarrassed by a second round loss to the Craps. Too many guys have sucked it in the playoffs this year.
 
Messiah717 said:
With the way these games are playing out if they would wake the hell up they could make things interesting. Instead of throwing everyone's name out there in the blame game it's very simple. You start with your best. Nash is the #1 culprit. I mean I know we don't like him but Glass is not the reason the team is not scoring. If the top offensive guys were doing their job we wouldn't be focusing on the bottom forward lines or bottom d pairs and trying to cast blame.
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This is a very fair point. If the top guys are going, the bottom guys arent even discussed. But at the same time, when the top guys arent going, you NEED bottom guys that can pick up the slack, bang in a couple of dirty goals and get the team going. We dont have that this year at all, and Glass is a big reason why. We're dead in the water if the top guys arent going.
 
I just saw a stat that 50% of the Ranger goals these playoffs have come with Rick Nash on the ice, and he's been a part of 38% of them.

For comparison purposes, Kane has been a part of 39% of the Hawks goals. Toews 32%. Getzlaf 42% of the Ducks goals.

That's very interesting to me.
 
We saw Renney and Torts fall in love with unproductive players. AV didn't do it his first year here. Now, he's doing it. That's where Sather needs to step in, see this and get rid of the guy without even discussing it with AV. I would if I was the GM. AV would show up and Glass would be in another city
 
theProdigy223 said:
Chuck it's not size as much as it's style. Lot of finesse, and some of the guys that try to play in a playoff style arent big enough to be as effective as we need them to be.
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That I agree with. Not just size period. When people say that I laugh because I don't think it's about size...I think it is about attitude. That is why Brass performs in the playoffs and Hags does as well...AND why Nash does not. He is soft and we all know it. Nash does have 6 points to lead the team, and is a + 3, but he doesn't score goals. 5 assists and 1 meaningless goal.

Zucc was real good in the playoffs last year...because of attitude. So was MSL, but now he is out of gas.

I do think with a core of Kreider, Hayes, and Miller we'll have some good size upfront as a base to add to the guys like Brass and Hags and Zucc.

I simply think playoff time = attitude time, and if you don't have that attitude you don't perform well. I think it is that simple.
 
Not a surprise to me Prod, he is playing okay and getting assists, dude just cannot score goals. He is tied for the team lead with 6 points. But we need some goals from him, lifts the whole team when he scores. And as we get 1.7 goals per game and he has virtually 0 of them, it hurts.
 
Zucc and Hagelin play 6'3. However, there is a big difference screening a goalie when you are 6'3 and 5'7. Those screens lead to a ton of playoff goals.
 
Right, and that is where you need to combine guys like Hags and Zucc and Brass with guys like Kreider and Nash and Hayes and Miller...issue is the last 4 are doing nothing pretty much. That's the issue to me, not going out and getting size, our size needs to grow balls and produce.
 
chuckd3534 said:
Not a surprise to me Prod, he is playing okay and getting assists, dude just cannot score goals. He is tied for the team lead with 6 points. But we need some goals from him, lifts the whole team when he scores. And as we get 1.7 goals per game and he has virtually 0 of them, it hurts.
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Absolutely. Like I said, he's paid like a superstar. But you look at these other rosters...Kane and Toews (Hossa Sharp). Getzlaf and Perry (Kesler). Stamkos and Johnson (Kucherov). Ovi and Backstrom. Who is the compliment to Rick Nash? We dont have one.

Stamkos also only has one goal all playoffs. And he just got it the other day. Yet Tampa is rolling.
 
When your top guys are going (like blackhawks now) you end series early and move on. When they are being held in check, which happens a lot in playoffs, your gritty players step up to make a difference (Andrew Shaw, Bickell, old days : Matteau, Tikanen,Nystrom,Tonelli, Claude Lemiuex etc). The grit is just not there from the first line on down. When these type players step up it makes everyone else feel bolder and ignites the team. We have a finesse crew with a few large bodies sprinkled in who have not answered the bell of a tough playoff series...as we all knew they wouldnt from the way the Isles smaked em around early this season. It was a tell tale sign that was never addressed...
 
It's not going to. You can't make big players play big, They either do it or they don't. Hayes won't do that. That's not his game. Neiter is it for Nash. You can't make a player have a playoff mentality. Nash and Stepan IMO don't have it. Brassard has shown he does. Kreider has shown he does. He's just having a rough stretch now. Hagelin does. Staal and Girardi do. McDonagh has had a dreadful year. I think he'll rebound. He was incredible in the playoffs last year. Zucc has that playoff attitude. St. Louis had it. He's just too old now. Non playoff guys on our roster

Nash
Stepan
Glass(No talent)
Boyle(soft)

So as I said before. Four of your top scorers are Nash, Stepan, St. Louis and Zucc. Zucc is hurt. St. Louis is done. Stepan and Nash have no clue how to play playoff hockey. One of those 2 has to go. Nash is the logical choice.
 
Tampa would have been out of the playoffs vs. Detroit if Johnson wasn't playing out of his mind for them. Because Stamkos sucked, they looked like garbage vs. Detroit. One forward saved their season.
 
theProdigy223 said:
This is a very fair point. If the top guys are going, the bottom guys arent even discussed. But at the same time, when the top guys arent going, you NEED bottom guys that can pick up the slack, bang in a couple of dirty goals and get the team going. We dont have that this year at all, and Glass is a big reason why. We're dead in the water if the top guys arent going.
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Yes, but not at the rate this team is not scoring. I mean like Chuck said Nash has zero real goals. A garbage one with five seconds left doesn't count. MSL has zero goals.
 
Face it. Team was built for the regular season. I said months ago this team didn't match up with big teams. Especially bigger teams with size. Then certain people here kissed their ass the final 2 months. They looked like garbage vs. Tampa. Many times vs. the Islanders. Looked lie crap against Boston. They are built for the regular season. It's obvious watching them now.
 
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