Thinking outside for box for lineup change

[STOMP]

I'd like to see Deni at PG. He's got the athletic ability, ball handling/passing ability to play the point.

On offense Deni has played point for Portland a lot already especially lately with Scoot out.

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

Why would he be worse than LaMarcus Aldridge at the 4? They both like to take the little jump shot. LA wasn't more athletic than DA.

in 2013-14, when Aldridge and Dame led the Blazers past Houston in the 1st round of the playoffs, PF's in the NBA were guys like Blake Griffin, Dirk Nowitski, AD, Kevin Love, David Lee, Paul Milsap, Zach Randolph, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, Serge Ibaka. Maybe Ayton could guard a few of those guys. But Aldridge was more mobile and a much better defender.

there just aren't many PF's like those guys left in the NBA. I posted a list of the current PF's in the west earlier in this thread, and it sure looks a lot different than the PF's 10-11 years ago. It essentially a list of mostly traditional SF's that play PF in the NBA these days

 

[Everything Beagle]

Sarcasm, right?

STOMP

My doctor says I'm not strictly speaking "legally sane" but what does he know?

 

[beast blazer]

in 2013-14, when Aldridge and Dame led the Blazers past Houston in the 1st round of the playoffs, PF's in the NBA were guys like Blake Griffin, Dirk Nowitski, AD, Kevin Love, David Lee, Paul Milsap, Zach Randolph, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, Serge Ibaka. Maybe Ayton could guard a few of those guys. But Aldridge was more mobile and a much better defender.

there just aren't many PF's like those guys left in the NBA. I posted a list of the current PF's in the west earlier in this thread, and it sure looks a lot different than the PF's 10-11 years ago. It essentially a list of mostly traditional SF's that play PF in the NBA these days

Were teams making errors then, in playing PFs like that all this time? What evidence do we have that those types of PFs are inferior to the types playing today?

 

[beast blazer]

On offense Deni has played point for Portland a lot already especially lately with Scoot out.

STOMP

He can defend the perimeter as well. If the Blazers get another good front court defender to put along side Camara and Clingan, then you have Deni playing guard, we'd have the best defense in the league defense. (though the offense would probably not be so good).

 

[STOMP]

Were teams making errors then, in playing PFs like that all this time? What evidence do we have that those types of PFs are inferior to the types playing today?

The embrace of the 3 ball has changed the game and the players who take the court... look at the teams who've been winning. Being able to shoot and defend the 3 has become extremely important. Spreading the D out with shooters around the perimeter exposes Lumbering Bigs to be targeted in high pick and rolls to get them switched off onto quick ball handling guards/wings who can get clean looks or kick to those shooters if the D collapses. If the Blazers were to luck into Flagg, I'd expect we'd see him paired a lot with Deni and Camara in the front court going without a traditional Big but able to switch most everything.

STOMP

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Were teams making errors then, in playing PFs like that all this time? What evidence do we have that those types of PFs are inferior to the types playing today?

All the changes in PF are because 3>2

However the discussion was Ayton guarding PF - that he is unable to effectively do so with today's PFs. Doesn't matter if the prior years PF were inferior or superior to todays PF. The fact is those are the PF on opposing teams today that Ayton would need to guard.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

He can defend the perimeter as well. If the Blazers get another good front court defender to put along side Camara and Clingan, then you have Deni playing guard, we'd have the best defense in the league defense. (though the offense would probably not be so good).

I don't really care who is labelled PF vs SF vs SG - its more how the skill sets fit. If Camara and Deni are playing together it's probably ideal to have the 3rd swing player with some dribbling and penetration skills. Camara isn't very good at that and while Deni is fine I don't think you want just him and a PG doing all of that ball handling. Ideally that 3rd swing would be good at 3pt shooting and defense too. That archetype is likely a SG although some SF would work.

Flagg would be ideal of course.

Sharpe, Banton or Rupert would probably be the best on the current roster.

I wouldn't use a forward like Walker as the Deni/Camara duo with him wouldn't have enough ball handling/penetration.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don't really care who is labelled PF vs SF vs SG - its more how the skill sets fit. If Camara and Deni are playing together it's probably ideal to have the 3rd swing player with some dribbling and penetration skills. Camara isn't very good at that and while Deni is fine I don't think you want just him and a PG doing all of that ball handling. Ideally that 3rd swing would be good at 3pt shooting and defense too. That archetype is likely a SG although some SF would work.

Flagg would be ideal of course.

Sharpe, Banton or Rupert would probably be the best on the current roster.

I wouldn't use a forward like Walker as the Deni/Camara duo with him wouldn't have enough ball handling/penetration.

Yep, Dalano with Deni and Toumani--DDT is toxic to opponents.

 

[beast blazer]

All the changes in PF are because 3>2

However the discussion was Ayton guarding PF - that he is unable to effectively do so with today's PFs. Doesn't matter if the prior years PF were inferior or superior to todays PF. The fact is those are the PF on opposing teams today that Ayton would need to guard.

I'm not saying I think it would be good, but I'd like to see that experiment. People talk about what he wouldn't bring to the 4 but ignore what he would bring to the 4. If he could contain opposing 4s to launching up 3s, that would be a win in most cases, because most 4s don't shoot 3s at a clip that approaches the league average TS%. (which would be 38% from 3)

 

[wizenheimer]

Were teams making errors then, in playing PFs like that all this time? What evidence do we have that those types of PFs are inferior to the types playing today?

where was it I said those PF's were inferior? I never said anything remotely like that

what I did say is that the NBA has changed dramatically in the last 10-15 years. It used to be that there were the traditional 5 floor positions, and that was still generally the case back in Aldridge's prime with a few teams employing a "stretch-4" at times, and a couple of teams doing it full time

now, generally, the NBA has moved from that traditional PG-SG-SF-PF-C to PG-W(ings)-C. And quite a few of the C's these days would have been PF's 10-15 years ago. Guys like AD, Adebayo, Holmgren, Looney, Wemby, Myles Turner.

I'll check at ESPN while I'm writing this post: in the 2010-11 season, only 4 C's attempted more than 0.5 three's a game. Four. And those 4 included Matt Bonner (not a C; he averaged 3 reb and 0.3 blks for his career); Bargnani; Boris Diaw (not a C); and Brad Miller. Last season, 15 C's averaged more than 0.5 three's attempted. In 2010-11, the median number of three's attempted by NBA teams was 17.7; this season it's 36.9

all that's not to say I like this trend. I'm kind of inclined to agree with Popovich that the 3-point line has ended up doing more harm than good

anyway, back to Ayton and Clingan starting together: it would be fucking stupid, IMO, but so much about the Blazers is stupid these days I guess it doesn't matter much