This "F*** You, David Stern" moment ...

[Ed O]

Lots of things wrong with your statement.

1. The Bucks making the playoffs doesn't mean anything. Over half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs each year....obviously there are going to be some teams from smaller markets, right? I'm not saying that I agree with Ray's logic, but just because some teams make the playoffs each year (or did) doesn't mean that they are all going to be from major cities.

2. You obviously aren't familiar with what he said. His point was more about advancing in the playoffs. He argued that certain teams were helped to advance to help the NBA's ratings, not an unreasonable claim.

3. Ray's name has nothing to do with it, but way to try and twist my argument . But I think he has more knowledge about the topic than any of us. I just used his name as an example. Van Gundy, and many other players and coaches have said similar things.

I'm talking about teams making the playoffs (or not) because of Stern's alleged belief that only large markets are good for the NBA. If you brought up a quote that's not relevant that's not my problem.

Are you kidding me? How would keeping foreign players OUT increase market size. Look at what Yao Ming's arrival did for the league. Do you really think that he was beating out Shaq for the starting ASG spot every year because the NBA's market was limited to Americans? No, its because he had a lot of foreigners voting for him.

You're ignoring the fact that San Antonio won championships with NO foreigners.

Please tell me how that fits into the "Stern wants small market teams to fail" world view.

Houston Rockets' games are now televised in China. So I missed the part where foreign players coming to the NBA hurts the market. Please explain that to me.

Straw man.

Funny, isn't that the same argument that his lawyers used?

Absolutely. Remind me again who prevailed in court.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

Again, no one is saying that Seattle couldn't have kept the team if they would have tried hard enough. The questions are whether or not Bennett negotiated in good faith and whether or not the remedy to keep them in Seattle was reasonable. You don't have to have a JD to understand that in both cases the answer is "no".

My JD is irrelevant. I only brought it up because he asked if I was following the trial and my legal training is one of the reasons that I paid close attention.

There is no responsibility for an owner to act "reasonably".

Is it reasonable that players get paid what they do? Is it reasonable that a beer is so expensive at a game?

Bennett jumped through the hoops that he had to, and he gave plenty of opportunities for Sonics fans and their politicians to keep the team in Washington. It was just too high of a price to pay, unfortunately for Sonics fans.

Ed O.

 

[mobes23]

For the record, the people never got to vote for the stadium. Blame the politicians in a HUGE WAY FOR THAT.

 

[maxiep]

My JD is irrelevant. I only brought it up because he asked if I was following the trial and my legal training is one of the reasons that I paid close attention.

Terrific. There's a difference between what is legal and what is right.

There is no responsibility for an owner to act "reasonably".

No, but he made a promise he didn't keep. He didn't make a good faith effort. In fact, it's pretty clear he acted in bad faith. That's lying, plain and simple.

Is it reasonable that players get paid what they do? Is it reasonable that a beer is so expensive at a game?

Yes. They're the best at what they do. In fact, in comparison to many other industries, being among the top 450 in the world, the pay scale of the NBA is considered low.

Bennett jumped through the hoops that he had to, and he gave plenty of opportunities for Sonics fans and their politicians to keep the team in Washington. It was just too high of a price to pay, unfortunately for Sonics fans.

Ed, I get it. Legally he's in the clear. Terrific. So is OJ in the murder of his ex-wife. It doesn't make him or Stern any less culpable. They sent a message. Don't fuck with the NBA. All they had to do was step on 41 years of history to do it.

Fuck David Stern.

 

[BrianFromWA]

IIRC, no one won the case, b/c it was settled before the judge ruled. I'm no lawyer, but wasn't it settled to get a) more money out of Bennett into the city's coffers, and b) to get Schultz to drop his lawsuit? Some may say that paying 45M to the Seattle City Council to "settle" the case could be seen as a large bribe taken by the City Council to prevent justice from being done...I digress, though.

Stern brokered the deal between Schultz and Bennett, due in no small part to Stern's prior existing relationship to Bennett. Stern went to the State Government on behalf of Bennett (to be fair, it was "Sonics Ownership", not Bennett). McClendon's emails seem beyond a reasonable doubt to show that the sale was negotiated in bad faith, which Stern may or may not have had an influence in (being a lawyer himself).

So was Stern totally at fault? No. But he 1) knew what was going on, 2) brokered the deal, 3) argued on behalf of Bennett to the State, effectively drawing the line in the stand. You said "To blame the people who point the finger at Stern for this community's decision-making". I'm saying the only options were created by Stern. These options were mis-managed by the government (not the community--never once did you as a resident of Seattle, King County or Washington get to vote on this. Either did I). The government AND Stern are at fault.

 

[LittleAlex]

I don't see it that way at all. The Blazers were just as bad as the Sonics, and very few people thought they were undermining fan support.

Voters here just have other priorities. Which is fine... I don't blame them.

I DO blame people who point the finger at Stern for this community's decision-making.

Ed O.

This is not true. There was a time not to long ago where Paul Allen had the team up for sale. There was no way of knowing if the team would stay in Portland. The fans stayed away in droves. It has gotten better the last three years, but things were pretty up in the air.

I can tell you right now there is no way in hell the citizens of Portland would fund another Arena.

 

[Jurassic]

I guess my main problem with the whole thing is that it's clear there is a certain level of corruption in the NBA. This isn't just speculation or conspiracy theory on my part, a damn ref was caught not that long ago for fixing/betting on games.

I don't have any reason to believe that Stern is corrupt on that same level, but to say that the fans are wrong and he is completely innocent is naive. Pete Rose, Mark McGuire, and countless others have proven that just because someone is constantly in the spotlight doesn't mean that don't have skeletons in their closet. I don't know what Stern's personal motives are, or if he even has any. But I do know that he sent a bad message and was very disloyal to a group of fans that have been loyal for a long time.

For the record, Stern has set up some over the top regulations for NBA stadiums, which is a big part of why the Key arena was deemed below the requirements. Anyone who has been to the Key knows that it is perfectly fine.

I want Friday Nights at the Key back. Fuck David Stern.