This probably won't help in signing Stepan....
- Thread starter Disturbed
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Dis, i do not agree this is the type of deal that causes lockouts. He had a crappy season last year, but the year before that he had 51pts and he's only 23. $4M/yr for a young player with upside that only goes into his age 29 season is not a terrible deal.
I look at contracts like Suter, Parise, DiPietro, Kovalchuk, Luongo as the type of unreasonable, moronic deals that cause lock outs.
I look at contracts like Suter, Parise, DiPietro, Kovalchuk, Luongo as the type of unreasonable, moronic deals that cause lock outs.
Yeah its a good point about Suter, Parise etc but giving Henrique that money seems like vast overpayment to me. You said it yourself, he had a bad year last year....His 2nd in the league. Most GM's give him a bridge deal but Lou doesnt because he overpays to take off some UFA years. Will see how it works out. I dont think Henrique is that great. I think the truth is nobody really knows yet. If you pay Henrique $4m as a RFA Stepan will want $5.5
Everyone rips the Rangers for overpaying UFA's over the years (justifiably so) but other GM's are overpaying for their own RFA's (see Boston and Rask) and it impacts Sather's ability to resign our guys (Hank and Step)
Everyone rips the Rangers for overpaying UFA's over the years (justifiably so) but other GM's are overpaying for their own RFA's (see Boston and Rask) and it impacts Sather's ability to resign our guys (Hank and Step)
dumpstralmannow
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You are totally wrong 31 and Disturbed is completely correct. You don't give young players who aren't sure things long term contracts at young ages when you have total control of them. It's beyond stupid. McDonagh and Stepan are a lot more sure things than Henrique who hasn't proved crap. He's had one good year and one crap year. How the heck is that worth a 6 year deal? Just another example that Lou is now a moron as a GM. He should have been fired after last year. He's an old fart now who lost it years ago. If not for his fluke run 2 years ago, his track record the past 8 years is one and done, terrible drafts and 2 missed playoff seasons. These are exactly the contracts that cause lockouts because every forward like Stepan or Pacioretty that has gotten better and better over a 3 year period will now look at that contract and say, "That schmuck had one good year and got 6 years at 4 million. I'm a lot better than that imbecile.", and the would be correct.
dumpstralmannow
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Lockouts are not being caused by stars getting 12 year deals at 8 million. Wake up. Lockouts are being caused by the 23-32 year old, solid NHL player getting 4 to 6 year deals at 4 to 6 million. Solid NHL players should not be getting 4 to 6 year deals at 4 to 6 million. The solid NHL player should be getting 2-4 year deals at 2 to 3.5 million. That's it. Girardi, Callahan, Staal are all better players than Henrique and none of them got the contract that fool just got.
Ranger71
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That's not an awful deal imo, they're probably banking on him being a 50-60 pt player depending who he plays with. Callahan is a better all around player, but he's also in line for 6m next year. I guess the Devils figured if they're going to give him 3.5/4y they may as well push it out to a little more for 6y if they think he's that important to them.
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They are obviously banking on him going back to being a 50pt player and want to lock him long term now because if he does go back to being 50pts or better then he would have become even more expensive.
It's obviously a gamble, but $4m a year for a player whose best days are (likely) ahead of him is not a bad deal (overpay, yes, terrible, no), and nowhere near the awfulness of those 10+yr deals that were given out before.
It's obviously a gamble, but $4m a year for a player whose best days are (likely) ahead of him is not a bad deal (overpay, yes, terrible, no), and nowhere near the awfulness of those 10+yr deals that were given out before.
I dont see how giving a player $24m over 6 years is a good deal when they have had 1 season of 51 pts and 1 season on pace for 30 pts (over a full season).
MAYBE it makes more sense for them because nobody wants to ever resign there - pay more over longer years to ensure they dont bolt - but this is not a good signing IMO and I respect both of your guys opinions.
What happens if Henrique plays 80 games and scores 34 pts this year?
BTW how is the Zajac signing looking now without Parise?
MAYBE it makes more sense for them because nobody wants to ever resign there - pay more over longer years to ensure they dont bolt - but this is not a good signing IMO and I respect both of your guys opinions.
What happens if Henrique plays 80 games and scores 34 pts this year?
BTW how is the Zajac signing looking now without Parise?
Dis, i'm not saying it's a good deal and it's def a risk, but given their circumstances it's one they probably have to take.
The Devils are not going to be that good, so it's not like he's going to be playing with Nash/Gaborik next year on his line, but what if he puts 60pts next year on the 1st line with Ryder/Clowe as his linemates? Then $4M for a mid-20s 2nd line center is very reasonable.
It's not easy to judge players based on last year b/c not all were on the same level. Some played during the lock out, some didn't and some did better at keeping in shape, etc.
My original point is that this is not the type of contract that sets the NHL back and causes lock outs because it's at least paying for future performance rather than those big/long contracts where the team is paying for the past. I think Clowe's deal is a lot worse than Henrique's, for example.
The Devils are not going to be that good, so it's not like he's going to be playing with Nash/Gaborik next year on his line, but what if he puts 60pts next year on the 1st line with Ryder/Clowe as his linemates? Then $4M for a mid-20s 2nd line center is very reasonable.
It's not easy to judge players based on last year b/c not all were on the same level. Some played during the lock out, some didn't and some did better at keeping in shape, etc.
My original point is that this is not the type of contract that sets the NHL back and causes lock outs because it's at least paying for future performance rather than those big/long contracts where the team is paying for the past. I think Clowe's deal is a lot worse than Henrique's, for example.
theProdigy223
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"...on the 1st line with Ryder/Clowe as his linemates?"
That cracked me up.
That cracked me up.
yup, that's not a very good team. And Clowe's contract is brutal.
BigDaddyAl1973
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Disagree with you...this is the type of deal for an unproven middle if the road player. This drives up the salaries for players who are more eatablished...it also drives up salaries of players just a notch below.
the dimished mind of a soon to be 40 year old
and that's fine, but i'd say Clowe's and Horton's contracts are far more damaging to the league than Henrique's. Even look at what Landeskog got in Colorado with a $5.6M cap hit. It's not like Henrique is the first contract that potentially inflates others.
dumpstralmannow
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Av's didn't need to give that contract to Landeskog but he's a can't miss, franchise type player. Henrique isn't even close to being on the level of that guy. Landeskog did at 18 what Henrique did at 22.
You are missing the point 31. Clowe and Horton were UFA. Their previous teams had no control of their contract. The Devils had complete control over Henrique's contract and they gave him an absurd amount of money and years that there was no reason to give him. Those are the contracts that cause lockouts. That's because all the guys on the team who view themselves as equally important to the team and have a longer track record, now think they deserve the same dumb contract.
You are missing the point 31. Clowe and Horton were UFA. Their previous teams had no control of their contract. The Devils had complete control over Henrique's contract and they gave him an absurd amount of money and years that there was no reason to give him. Those are the contracts that cause lockouts. That's because all the guys on the team who view themselves as equally important to the team and have a longer track record, now think they deserve the same dumb contract.
Exactly Dump. That is what is so puzzling to me from these GM's....They overpay for these players that they dont need to. They own their rights. Nobody is going to sign Henrique to an offer sheet. I will laugh my azzzzz off if he has a 30 pt season again. Lou already gave Zajac 5.6m a year and outside of 2 seasons playing with Parise he is basically a 40 pt player. He is taller version of Brandon Dubinsky and isnt as physical IMO. We all loved Dubi but not at 4m. Zajac is making almost 6. Enjoy
Now that Stepan wants $4.7m for 6 years how do people feel about Henriques contract now???? I knew this would happen.....Stupid GM's who overpay for RFA's nobody will sign offer sheets to affect other teams ability to resign players. It's a vicious cycle and its why this sport has had multiple lockouts in the past 20 years
Come on, Dis...take a deep breathe and drink a glass of water.
Now that you're back, you should realize that, at best, Henrique's contract is just one example of current contracts that the agent may be using to base Stepan's on. That, and he's probably doing his best Dump impersonation and calling Stepan a proven point-per-game player.
Regarding contracts to RFA's, i am sure that Step's agent looks at Seguin getting a $5.8M cap hit after coming out of his EL contract. Or Benn getting a $5.3M cap hit, or Statsny getting $6.6M. Lucic got $4.1M after his EL contract expired. I'm sure there are plenty other examples of young RFA's coming out of entry level contracts who got a lot more money than we think they should.
Not going to compare what those players have accomplished at the time of the new contract vs. Stepan, but rather point out that there are far higher deals out there given to young players that could equally, or greater, influence Stepan's new contracts. It's not like he was going to ask for $2M until he saw Henrique's and then realized he needs to ask for $4.7M.
Now that you're back, you should realize that, at best, Henrique's contract is just one example of current contracts that the agent may be using to base Stepan's on. That, and he's probably doing his best Dump impersonation and calling Stepan a proven point-per-game player.
Regarding contracts to RFA's, i am sure that Step's agent looks at Seguin getting a $5.8M cap hit after coming out of his EL contract. Or Benn getting a $5.3M cap hit, or Statsny getting $6.6M. Lucic got $4.1M after his EL contract expired. I'm sure there are plenty other examples of young RFA's coming out of entry level contracts who got a lot more money than we think they should.
Not going to compare what those players have accomplished at the time of the new contract vs. Stepan, but rather point out that there are far higher deals out there given to young players that could equally, or greater, influence Stepan's new contracts. It's not like he was going to ask for $2M until he saw Henrique's and then realized he needs to ask for $4.7M.
Nah I never thought he would ask for 2m but if you pay Henrique 6/24 Stepan probably should get 6/28. And that creates a bigger problem
You pay Step $4.7m what do you pay Cally?
It's funny a month in the season many of us (myself included) were doubting if Stepan was even a SECOND line center as he looked completely lost and he rebounded and found his game and had a great year but you cant pay every 23 year old who gets 50 pts a couple of times almost 5m on long term deal. Henrique should have gotten 2.5-2.8m max especially after getting 16 pts last year. It has a ripple effect but oh well. In some ways the Rask contract is even worse.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out
You pay Step $4.7m what do you pay Cally?
It's funny a month in the season many of us (myself included) were doubting if Stepan was even a SECOND line center as he looked completely lost and he rebounded and found his game and had a great year but you cant pay every 23 year old who gets 50 pts a couple of times almost 5m on long term deal. Henrique should have gotten 2.5-2.8m max especially after getting 16 pts last year. It has a ripple effect but oh well. In some ways the Rask contract is even worse.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out
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Crap. If thats true this is going to be a dubinsky type signing and blood will probably be spilled. Don't see sather giving stepan anywhere near this contract as just because some idiot gm that doesn't know what hes doing gives out a ridiculous contract others will also. Can you say holdout?
