This Team Versus Clydes Blazers

[MrSelfDestruct]

I guess you have failed to see where I have been and where I'm going.

That wasn't my point at all. This team in the end will end up being better. But the level excitement they bring may not be near as much.

That's my point.

My point is that the end result (read: winning) is what brings the excitement. I was comparing the rally at the Pioneer Square to people welcoming Blazer 1 back at the airport back in the day. If you think people won't be as excited (or the level of play won't be exciting) playing for the championship, I think you are dead wrong.

The excitement off the court IS there. People are excited about the Blazers again. People who haven't cared about the Blazers care. If you can't see that, then I don't know what else to say.

Have you ever had a movie you absolutely loved as a kid, then watched it later on in life and realized it wasn't as great as you remember? Nostalgia can be blinding.

 

[Mediocre Man]

As of right now, the Drexler era Blazers would probably be a little better.

Porter > Miller or Blake
Drexler > Roy....But it's close
Kersey > Batum
Buck < Aldridge
Duck > Oden. People forget that Duck played in a couple of all star games. He was good.

Ainge, Cliffy, Petro, Cooper, Abdelnaby, Bryant, Walter Davis

Blake, Travis, Webster, Joel, Rudy, Pendergraph, Cunningham

The benches might be a toss up

Adelman > Nate......IMO anyway.


Running it on a sim website 10 times, the Drexler Blazers won 6. All of the games were really close though, so I am sure if someone else ran them it might come out differently.

 

[Blazer4ever]

I watched only one game of Clyde's Blazers, it was a win against the Bulls in the 92' finals. It made me a fan and I still am, 17 years later, but I can't say I can judge that team based on the one game I saw when I was not even 8 years old.

To me, this team is more comparable to the Sheed-Pippen Blazers. Very deep, extremely talented, with a weak starting PG, a great scoring-guard rotation, one of the best team-defenders in the league at the 3, a PF who's solid on both ends of the floor. BTW, who was Sabas' backup at Center? oh, I remember, BG and Jermaine O'neal. We have a better backup center now.
That team, as we all remember all too well, lost because of mental weakness. I think Nate is a better coach than Dunleavy and I think the fact that this team grows together, unlike Trader Bob's Blazers, would make them stronger in their mindset.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

I watched only one game of Clyde's Blazers, it was a win against the Bulls in the 92' finals. It made me a fan and I still am, 17 years later, but I can't say I can judge that team based on the one game I saw when I was not even 8 years old.

To me, this team is more comparable to the Sheed-Pippen Blazers. Very deep, extremely talented, with a weak starting PG, a great scoring-guard rotation, one of the best team-defenders in the league at the 3, a PF who's solid on both ends of the floor. BTW, who was Sabas' backup at Center? oh, I remember, BG and Jermaine O'neal. We have a better backup center now.
That team, as we all remember all too well, lost because of mental weakness. I think Nate is a better coach than Dunleavy and I think the fact that this team grows together, unlike Trader Bob's Blazers, would make them stronger in their mindset.

They play like that blazer team as well. Slower and more half court.

I agree with your post. The point of my post was to post discussion. It was never meant to knock this team. This team has all the ingredients to be a pretty fun and to be a long term success.

When they are finished, they will probably be the best roster of all time for the blazers.

That alone is exciting.

 

[Miksaid]

Running it on a sim website 10 times, the Drexler Blazers won 6. All of the games were really close though, so I am sure if someone else ran them it might come out differently.

Could you link me to this sim website, please?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Could you link me to this sim website, please?

Here is the one I used


http://whatifsports.com/nba/default.asp

 

[THE HCP]

As of right now, the Drexler era Blazers would probably be a little better.

Porter > Miller or Blake
Drexler > Roy....But it's close
Kersey > Batum
Buck < Aldridge
Duck > Oden. People forget that Duck played in a couple of all star games. He was good.

Ainge, Cliffy, Petro, Cooper, Abdelnaby, Bryant, Walter Davis

Blake, Travis, Webster, Joel, Rudy, Pendergraph, Cunningham

The benches might be a toss up

Adelman > Nate......IMO anyway.


Running it on a sim website 10 times, the Drexler Blazers won 6. All of the games were really close though, so I am sure if someone else ran them it might come out differently.

Duck was an All-Star the same way Jamal McGloire was, by default.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Duck was an All-Star the same way Jamal McGloire was, by default.

Ok, but if Oden puts up 18/8 this year, and the team goes to the finals, I better not see you write that he should be an all-star.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

So I set the proper depth charts for the 2008-09 Blazers (Batum starting, Travis as main backup SF and PF, Channing 3rd backup PF/C, Rudy main backup SG, Bayless 3rd backup SG). Nic, Trav, and Rudy each get between 20 and 28 minute now.

I then plugged in the 1990-91 Blazer team as their opponent. I made no adjustments, because my memory of their rotations is a little fuzzy.

I played a best-of-seven series with 1990-91 as the home team for Games 1, 2, 5, and 7 (i.e., they have home-court advantage)

Here's the results:

Game 1 - 2008-09 wins 109-100 (Player of the Game - B.Roy with 28pts 9reb)
Game 2 - 1990-91 wins 104-98 (Player of the Game - Porter with 20pts, 5ast)
Game 3 - 2008-09 wins 121-101 (Player of the Game - B.Roy with 19pts 11ast)
Game 4 - 2008-09 wins 113-85 (Player of the Game - B.Roy with 16pts, 8ast)
Game 5 - 2008-09 wins 111-109 (Player of the Game - B.Roy with 14pts, 10ast)

Result: 2008-09 in 5.

For fun, I ran a second series (again with 1990-91 with HCA):

Game 1 - 2008-09 wins 112-110 (POTG - Roy with 27pts 9 ast)
Game 2 - 1990-91 wins 111-106 (POTG - Drexler with 27pts 8reb)
Game 3 - 2008-09 wins 112-96 (POTG - Roy with 29pts 5reb)
Game 4 - 2008-09 wins 103-90 (POTG - Roy with 36pts 6reb)
Game 5 - 1990-91 wins 101-87 (POTG - Drexler with 23pts 7ast)
Game 6 - 1990-91 wins 126-123 (POTG - Drexler with 28pts 7ast)
Game 7 - 1990-91 wins 94-84 (POTG - Drexler with 21pts 7ast)

Result - 1990-91 in 7.

This is a fun little tool! Let's try the 08-09 Blazers versus the 1995-96 Bulls!

NOTE: I didn't attempt to harvest good games for the Blazers here...

Game 1 (in CHI): POR 112 - CHI 95
Game 2 (in CHI): POR 104 - CHI 95
Game 3 (in POR): POR 107 - CHI 104
Game 4 (in POR): POR 105 - CHI 101

Result: Portland sweeps the Bulls 4-0

ROFL!

 

[LittleAlex]

I don't think this Portland team would be able to beat Clyde's best Blazers team in a seven game series. In fact, I don't think they would win a single game right now.

Buck would shut LMA down, hard. Roy and Clyde would duel with Clyde coming out on top. Porter would absolutely destroy Blake. All of our small forwards put together don't make a single Jerome Kersey. At Center, Duck and our two headed monster would battle to a stand still.

Ainge, Young, and Robinson versus Bayless, Rudy and Outlaw. I would put the former ahead of the later.

Give this current team a few years and the picture might be different. But right now the 1990-1991 Blazer team would bitch slap this current team.

Edit:
The above assumes the games would be officiated in the same way games were in 1990. If they were officiated as they are now, the current team would be in pretty good shape. Buck Williams would foul out in about 8 minutes. Though Clyde might score 70 if he can't be touched on the way to the rim.

It really sucks that officiating would play any roll at all in such a discussion, but it pretty much has to. The game of 1990 doesn't resemble the game in 2009 very much at all.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I don't think this Portland team would be able to beat Clyde's best Blazers team in a seven game series. In fact, I don't think they would win a single game right now.

Buck would shut LMA down, hard. Roy and Clyde would duel with Clyde coming out on top. Porter would absolutely destroy Blake. All of our small forwards put together don't make a single Jerome Kersey. At Center, Duck and our two headed monster would battle to a stand still.

Ainge, Young, and Robinson versus Bayless, Rudy and Outlaw. I would put the former ahead of the later.

Give this current team a few years and the picture might be different. But right now the 1990-1991 Blazer team would bitch slap this current team.

I have to agree that the simulations for the 1990-91 team were a little stinky simply because I couldn't tweak the rotations to match reality. But, I have a little different view of the matchup than you. I think we're pretty close to being equally matched.

1 - Roy is a smarter player than Clyde, and can (as has been shown in his duels against Artest, Melo, and Kobe) basically goad a shooter into taking bad shots. I'm thinking 4th quarter against the Lakers in April 09. He got into a shooter's duel with Kobe, and Kobe started missing first. Clyde had this tendency to match his opponent shot for shot if his opponent was hot, often to the team's detriment. I think Roy could gain an advantage here.

2 - LMA cannot be stopped by Duncan; Buck (at 6-8) is not going to shut him down completely. LMA's game isn't just back-to-the-basket or slashing; he's got midrange, high post moves, and can pass out of a double-team. Buck may shave 5 points off LMA's average, but that still leaves 13-15 points a game.

3 - Rudy and Ainge would be a battle for the ages, but also of the ages; Rudy, being younger, faster, and more athletic, would force Ainge to foul before Rudy could get away for an alley-oop pass or open three pointer.

4 - Robinson and Outlaw would be interesting to see, since I like both players quite a bit. Cliffy gets the advantage here, because Outlaw couldn't guard 17-year-vet Cliffy, let alone 2nd-year greyhound Cliffy. But, at this point, Outlaw has a 3pt shot and Cliff doesn't.

5 - Bayless/Sergio (if we're going 08/09) versus Young is a pure win for Young; he'd pick their pockets so often, they'd start carrying their wallets on a chain for their own protection. Since neither showed much interest in defending the 3, he'd also pound them there.

On the whole, I think if the game stays close, the 1989-93's lineups tended to fold a little under pressure, whereas the 2006-2009 teams have blossomed under that same pressure. If Clyde's teams are to win, it'd have to be by a blowout.

 

[STOMP]

Ok, but if Oden puts up 18/8 this year, and the team goes to the finals, I better not see you write that he should be an all-star.

Any Western conference center who posts those sorts of #'s on a winner next year stands a good chance of being an AS... the West doesn't have many good 5's and will of course be missing their best (Ming). Duckworth was an okay player with some skills, but he was always a weakness on the Defensive end. If Greg is averaging 18 points, I'm guessing (hoping?) that this is largely the result of increased mobility being another year removed from MF. If so, his defensive ability should benefit at least as much, which would be a lot better then what Big Kev brought.

Too bad dude couldn't ever shed the weight. I remember one season after a bitter loss him promising to be doing nothing but eating salads and working out all off season "Just you wait and see" he promised. I'm sure he meant it when he said it, but when training camp came around he was as big as ever. Ifs and buts... but how good would that Clyde era team have been if Duck would have been in shape?

STOMP

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

Any Western conference center who posts those sorts of #'s on a winner next year stands a good chance of being an AS... the West doesn't have many good 5's and will of course be missing their best (Ming). Duckworth was an okay player with some skills, but he was always a weakness on the Defensive end. If Greg is averaging 18 points, I'm guessing (hoping?) that this is largely the result of increased mobility being another year removed from MF. If so, his defensive ability should benefit at least as much, which would be a lot better then what Big Kev brought.

Too bad dude couldn't ever shed the weight. I remember one season after a bitter loss him promising to be doing nothing but eating salads and working out all off season "Just you wait and see" he promised. I'm sure he meant it when he said it, but when training camp came around he was as big as ever. Ifs and buts... but how good would that Clyde era team have been if Duck would have been in shape?

STOMP

I always wonder how much better we would have been if we had Sabonis on that team.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I always wonder how much better we would have been if we had Sabonis on that team.

1989 Sabonis with 1989 Blazers? 82-0. Seriously, that would have been their ceiling. Sabonis back then could run down Avery Johnson over a full court. He could move, pass, dunk, shoot the 3... my god. It would have been amazing.

 

[Natebishop3]

This concept that Clyde's blazers could play to the crowd better is ridiculous. The 1999-2001 team was pretty damn good at "playing to the crowd" as well. I was in the Garden when we were playing the Lakers in the WCF, let me tell you, the fans were going nuts. I've been in the Garden when it was so loud you couldn't hear yourself think. This team can just as easily accomplish that as any other Blazer team.

 

[LittleAlex]

1989 Sabonis with 1989 Blazers? 82-0. Seriously, that would have been their ceiling. Sabonis back then could run down Avery Johnson over a full court. He could move, pass, dunk, shoot the 3... my god. It would have been amazing.

I try to never think about this, since it makes my soul hurt.

 

[LittleAlex]

I have to agree that the simulations for the 1990-91 team were a little stinky simply because I couldn't tweak the rotations to match reality. But, I have a little different view of the matchup than you. I think we're pretty close to being equally matched.

1 - Roy is a smarter player than Clyde, and can (as has been shown in his duels against Artest, Melo, and Kobe) basically goad a shooter into taking bad shots. I'm thinking 4th quarter against the Lakers in April 09. He got into a shooter's duel with Kobe, and Kobe started missing first. Clyde had this tendency to match his opponent shot for shot if his opponent was hot, often to the team's detriment. I think Roy could gain an advantage here.

2 - LMA cannot be stopped by Duncan; Buck (at 6-8) is not going to shut him down completely. LMA's game isn't just back-to-the-basket or slashing; he's got midrange, high post moves, and can pass out of a double-team. Buck may shave 5 points off LMA's average, but that still leaves 13-15 points a game.

3 - Rudy and Ainge would be a battle for the ages, but also of the ages; Rudy, being younger, faster, and more athletic, would force Ainge to foul before Rudy could get away for an alley-oop pass or open three pointer.

4 - Robinson and Outlaw would be interesting to see, since I like both players quite a bit. Cliffy gets the advantage here, because Outlaw couldn't guard 17-year-vet Cliffy, let alone 2nd-year greyhound Cliffy. But, at this point, Outlaw has a 3pt shot and Cliff doesn't.

5 - Bayless/Sergio (if we're going 08/09) versus Young is a pure win for Young; he'd pick their pockets so often, they'd start carrying their wallets on a chain for their own protection. Since neither showed much interest in defending the 3, he'd also pound them there.

On the whole, I think if the game stays close, the 1989-93's lineups tended to fold a little under pressure, whereas the 2006-2009 teams have blossomed under that same pressure. If Clyde's teams are to win, it'd have to be by a blowout.

#1: I don't think Roy's BB-IQ would trump Clyde's abilities unfortunately. Clyde would simply be too much for Roy to handle.

#2: Buck shutting down LMA assumes they play using 1990 rules. At that time interior defense was a function of punishing the other player. I honestly don't know if LMA could take it. I also think the reason Duncan can't shut down LMA is simply because he can't put more then a single forearm in LMA's back. In 1990, you could put both hands on the other players back. It makes a huge difference.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

The current team has the POTENTIAL to be even better than the Drexler Blazers, but last season it wasn't close - the Drexler Blazers were better.

LMA wouldn't get a rebound against Buck. Of course, it's hard to get a rebound when Buck is pushing you under the basket on every play. It was so fun to hear the other team's whine about that, but I don't know if the modern ref would let him get away with it any more.

We're going to have to see a lot of G.O.-improvement to change the matchup. Personally, I'm rooting for it to happen (and SOON), but it hasn't happened yet. As with all facets of the team, Oden is the biggest determiner of future blazer success.

btw, The Drexler Blazers would have the fans support as well. It there was any doubt, they'd have an improptu dunk contest during the warmups (they did this a couple of times back then) to win over the crowd.