Thorpe Chat on Oden/Durant

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Reep

Reep

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Jake (Columbia, MO): I listend to Simmons' podcast the other day. Stein and Bucher are still claiming that they would have taken Oden with the #1 pick. They're fooling themselves, right? As great of a defensive presence as Oden can be, Durant would be an unbelievable second option on that team. If anything, his progress would probably be better in Portland. Thoughts?

David Thorpe: KD on the Blazers right now means they are a top 4 team, right now.
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Link

Hmmm. Top 4? Cleveland, Lakers, Boston, Blazers (above Magic and San Antonio)?

Chemistry is an unpredictable science.
 
Talal brooklyn new york: do you believe lebron is coming to the knicks in 2010?

SportsNation David Thorpe: Yes.

Fail.
 
hard to argue...joel is better then oden at the moment. durant is that scorer we need badly and plays a position we have needed for 6 years, sf!

2 years from now...i dont know
 
Offense isn't our problem. Defense is. GO changes the way we play defense and the way teams attack us.
 
I will grant that Durant is looking a LOT better since PJ went. But that's just utter bullshit. Unless, of course, he thinks we're ALREADY a top four team. But who knows with Thorpe? He's full of it. (His rookie rankings are bizarre. He's got Westbrook above Rose. No GM in the league [other than Sam Presti] would swap them. He's also got Rudy above Oden. I love Rudy, but Oden is already more important, and ranks higher in just about every "super stat".)
 
I said it prior to the 2007 draft, and my opinion hasn't changed. Defense and rebounding wins championships. Oden gives you both. If the goal is to be a championship contender for several years, I'd still take Oden over Durant right now.

Yes, Durant is a great scorer, but the NBA is littered with great scorers who never won a title. Durant would help the Blazers win more regular season games this year, and probably next, but if you want to win a title (or titles), you take the big man.

BNM
 
Key words were "right now"

Also an interesting trade scenario with Conley, Gay, Warrick for LMA and Outlaw.


I say nay nay, but interesting that it was brought up by somoene in Memphis
 
Mediocre Man said:
Key words were "right now"

Also an interesting trade scenario with Conley, Gay, Warrick for LMA and Outlaw.


I say nay nay, but interesting that it was brought up by somoene in Memphis
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That is what I was thinking.

I agree that right now, with Durant on the team instead of Oden, the Blazers would be better and a contender (that I think would lose in the second round or western conf finals).

But center and PG positions are the hardest to fiil. I would rather be trying to fill SF or hoping Batum/Webster/Outlaw/Rudy works out than having Joel as the only legit center and trying to find another center out there.

Man am I hoping for a big night for Oden tonight. He has had good games, but without looking it up, I don't recall Oden putting back to back solid efforts out there (maybe once???). Anyways, he had a solid game against Chicago, but back to back games . . . that is another milestone for Oden?

I think it is jsut a matter of time (probably next year) where you can count on his production on a nightly baasis and his no show games will be the exception.
 
it's_GO_time said:
That is what I was thinking.

I agree that right now, with Durant on the team instead of Oden, the Blazers would be better and a contender (that I think would lose in the second round or western conf finals).

But center and PG positions are the hardest to fiil. I would rather be trying to fill SF or hoping Batum/Webster/Outlaw/Rudy works out than having Joel as the only legit center and trying to find another center out there.

Man am I hoping for a big night for Oden tonight. He has had good games, but without looking it up, I don't recall Oden putting back to back solid efforts out there (maybe once???). Anyways, he had a solid game against Chicago, but back to back games . . . that is another milestone for Oden?

I think it is jsut a matter of time (probably next year) where you can count on his production on a nightly baasis and his no show games will be the exception.
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Plus, Sam Dalembert seems to have good games against Portland. That may just be my perception, but I'd love to see Oden win the center battle tonight. Last night there really wasn't another center on the floor. Well, Aaron Gray I suppose, but Dalambert is a much better C than Aaron Gray.
 
players like rolando blackman, xaivier mcdaniel, bernard king, etc, will always be remembered as great scorers, but not much else.

i still like greg, durant would be nice too, whatev
 
PapaG said:
Plus, Sam Dalembert seems to have good games against Portland. That may just be my perception, but I'd love to see Oden win the center battle tonight. Last night there really wasn't another center on the floor. Well, Aaron Gray I suppose, but Dalambert is a much better C than Aaron Gray.
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Yea . . . I read the comments from Bull fans in the thread about centers having good games against the Bulls. Still, good game for Oden (if nothing else avoiding the fould the Bulls were trying to draw on him). . . and if Oden can have a good game against Philly (especially against a Dalambert) . . . that is a good step (putting back to back games together)

Unless he has already done this and I forgetting about it . . .
 
Just a quick check of the Game Log shows Oden went 15/15 and 8/10 back-to-back against LAC and SAC, then 16/10, 13/11 against TOR and BOS.

But your point's still valid...consistency isn't a big part of Greg's resume yet.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Just a quick check of the Game Log shows Oden went 15/15 and 8/10 back-to-back against LAC and SAC, then 16/10, 13/11 against TOR and BOS.

But your point's still valid...consistency isn't a big part of Greg's resume yet.
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It wasn't early into Durants rookie season either.

He was shooting really poorly. Greg is less than 1/2 way through his rookie year. Let's not forget that.
 
Thorpe is entitled to his opinion, but I'll take Greg thank you very much. And I'd take him right now. We simply don't need a 'Durant-type guy' on this team. Roy and Aldridge are our go-to guys, why do we need three? It is a great luxury to have Oden and Joel, and it helps them both to know the other is available. It's great not having to rely on an undersized PF to back Joel up. Now, if we go small it's because we want to. That's now, and I imagine this decision being even easier in the future, at least for me. Because I'm a homer.
 
Thorpe is an idiot. His chats are worthless.

Sharad (New York, NY): Name the to 5 SGs in the league right now

SportsNation David Thorpe: Help me out here.
Wade
Kobe
Manu
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Follow up...
Phillip: David. Im a spurs fan and I would take both Brandon Roy over Manu. And I would almost take Joe Johnson over Manu as well. I love the guy and realize how important he is. But he doesnt start for a reason. He is wreckless sometimes and it hurts the team in stretches. Tell me if im way off base with that. Thanks.

SportsNation David Thorpe: You are way off base.
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Moron.
 
durant is killing it lately though, 25/8, shooting close to 50%, he is good, greg is better.
 
drexlersdad said:
durant is killing it lately though, 25/8, shooting close to 50%, he is good, greg is better.
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On the negative side, Durant is also averaging almost 5 turnovers a game over his last 5 games, and his AST/TO is comparable to Yao Ming and Amare Stoudamire as opposed to the elite players at his position.

He stagnates an offense, doesn't he?
 
drexlersdad said:
players like rolando blackman, xaivier mcdaniel, bernard king, etc, will always be remembered as great scorers, but not much else.

i still like greg, durant would be nice too, whatev
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Actually, I was thinking Durant in his prime might put up numbers (well, scoring numbers) in the Domique Wilkins, George Gervine range. But, neither of those guys won a title either.

The other thing those two guys had in common with Durant is a relatively low PER/PPG ratio. Guys who are primarily volume scores tend to have a lower PER than PPG (PER/PPG < 1.0). Players who can score, but also contribute in other significant ways tend to have a higher PER than PPG (PER/PPG > 1.0)

For example, every year he's been in the league, Brandon Roy has had a PER/PPG > 1.0. Durant had a PER/PPG significantly < 1.0 in his rookie season, and does again this year.


Code: 
Player             Season        PER        PPG        PER/PPG
Brandon Roy        2006-07       18.0       16.8         1.07
                   2007-08       19.4       19.1         1.02
                   2008-09       24.4       22.5         1.08
Kevin Durant       2007-08       15.8       20.3         0.78
                   2008-09       19.0       23.8         0.80

Roy is the kind of player that does more than score to help his team win. Durant, so far, is basically a volume scorer on a losing team. I don't think Durant will ever be the leader on a championship contender. His play is too one dimensional. However, he'd be an excellent second option on a championship caliber team.


BNM
 
^:check:

Also, I understand the 1.0 value is subjective...is there an "average starter" like the 15.0 PER?

I'm gonna have to run a sheet on this, too. thanks!
 
number 10 said:
that's a great stat, where did you get it from?
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I made it up. Just a personal observation. And as BrianFromWA pointed out the 1.0 number is a bit arbirtary. What I should have said is guys who are primarily volume scorers tend to have a PER/PPG significantly less than 1.0.

Michael Jordan had a career PER/PPG of 0.99. Early in his career, Jordan had a PER/PPG significantly less than 1.0. Coincidentally, the first time he had a PER/PPG > 1.0 was 1990-91 - the first year the Bulls won an NBA title.

Obviously, Jordan was a VERY complete player. A great scorer, but also great and many other things. Since PER and PPG are both heavily offensively biased stats, a player could be a GREAT defender (as Jordan was) , still have a PER/PPG less than 1.0 and be consider a great all-around player.

For a player to average more than 20 PPG and still have a PER/PPG greater than 1.0 indicates he is an efficient scorer and/or makes significant contributions in other areas (rebounds, assists, steals, etc.). Guys like Lebron James (PER./PPG = 1.18), Chris Paul (PER/PPG = 1.51), Dwight Howard (PER/PPG = 1.30), Brandon Roy (PER/PPG = 1.08) and Tim Duncan (PER/PPG = 1.19) fit this description. Guys like Kevin Durant (PER/PPG = 0.80), Danny Granger (PER/PPG = 0.86), Carmelo Anthony (PER/PPG = 0.86) and Ben Gordon (PER/PPG = 0.83) don't.

That's not to say the latter group aren't very good players. They are all great scoers, and most teams would be happy to have them. They just aren't as good at other aspects of the game, beyond scoring, as the guys in the first group.

BNM
 
And we should have taken Chris Paul instead of Martell Webster... and we should have taken Al Jefferson instead of Sebastian Telfair... and we should have taken Michael Jordan instead of.... blah blah blah.
 
Durant = best player on a bad team. I bet if Oden had played all of last year like Durant, and had a green light to shoot whenever he felt like it, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
How many quality small forwards' names have been bandied around in trade talks this year? Wallace, Howard, Marion, Deng, Butler....pretty much every one that isn't an All-Star this year.

How many quality centers are candidates for trades? Brad Miller and, uh.....

Even if Oden winds up being 80% of the player Durant is, he's still the better choice. Quality SF's can be traded for or signed. Quality centers? Exceedingly rare.

Assuming the major injury issues are behind him (a pretty big assumption, I'll admit) Oden was the best pick.
 
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