Thorpe: Lillard is third-best sophomore

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I could make a case for Lillard at #2.

But Davis this year has been tearing it up, and most people when they watch the NBA now look at individual performances rather than team wins, and that's probably why Drummond is #2 (and Davis #1, to an extent). Except Drummonds' awful FT %. Though, to be fair, I can't think of Davis' off the top of my head.


This is why I would take Lillard over Drummond. Most NBA games are won in the last few minutes and those minutes are dominated by players who can handle the ball. Big guys are important to a team's success, no doubt, but I doubt Drummond will ever touch the ball at the end of games unless he is fouled.

I give a slight advantage to the guys like Lillard, and Curry, and Westbrook, than bigs without shooting skills.
Someone like DMC is a different story because he has skills. (But obviously he has other deficiencies)

But I think you can find a guy like Asik or Lopez or Gortat, that can do almost as much as Drummond. But finding a Lillard is tougher. Not that Lillard is perfect by any means, but when it comes to winning, Lillard is money.

I wanted a healthy Oden over Durant. Most of us did. But guys like Durant are more valuable these days. Guys with the ball in their hands at the end of the game, who can create their own shot, and make it
 
I don't see how Drummond can be on the court at the end of close games.

He's shooting 24% from the line this year, and only was 37% last year.

You can't depend on that guy in the fourth quarter of meaningful games.

Davis as #1? No problem with that at all, but I'd draft Lillard over Drummond without thinking twice. Plus, Drummond missed 22 games his rookie season, and big guys who have injuries early in their careers make me nervous.
 
I don't see how Drummond can be on the court at the end of close games.

He's shooting 24% from the line this year, and only was 37% last year.

You can't depend on that guy in the fourth quarter of meaningful games.

Davis as #1? No problem with that at all, but I'd draft Lillard over Drummond without thinking twice. Plus, Drummond missed 22 games his rookie season, and big guys who have injuries early in their careers make me nervous.

Great points; you can't rely on that guy in the 4th with whack-a-Drummond being a legit strategy... Has Lillard missed a FT shot in the 4th quarter yet this season? For a good long while he was perfect.
 
Great find. BTW, you've been a member for 3+ years and have fewer posts in that time than some of the rooks do in a week. #qualityoverquantity

I can respect and rep that.

Davis will never be a #1 til he does something about that unibrow.

BTW, I heard a rumor that Davis is considering removing some of that brow to give Lebron some plugs. Anyone else hear this same rumor?

worried about post count then make 2 posts back to back instead of using edit button. nice

davis is as over rated as blake griffin. league is so obsessed with jersey sales it's pathetic
 
Drummond is an easy #2 or 3, but he is nowhere near AD, this writer has a boner for him
 
This is why I would take Lillard over Drummond. Most NBA games are won in the last few minutes and those minutes are dominated by players who can handle the ball. Big guys are important to a team's success, no doubt, but I doubt Drummond will ever touch the ball at the end of games unless he is fouled.

I give a slight advantage to the guys like Lillard, and Curry, and Westbrook, than bigs without shooting skills.
Someone like DMC is a different story because he has skills. (But obviously he has other deficiencies)

But I think you can find a guy like Asik or Lopez or Gortat, that can do almost as much as Drummond. But finding a Lillard is tougher. Not that Lillard is perfect by any means, but when it comes to winning, Lillard is money.

I wanted a healthy Oden over Durant. Most of us did. But guys like Durant are more valuable these days. Guys with the ball in their hands at the end of the game, who can create their own shot, and make it

You pretty much made my case as Lillard for #2. I mean, right now, with the team wins, he should be #1. But with national media, you have to expect they box score watch exclusively.
 
Oooooh, someone dare say Dame wasn't a HOF shoe in. Thorpe is about to get the wrath.
 
The biggest problems right now is Dame's shooting percentage (which is abysmal) and his assist numbers are down. The fact that we're still debating Davis vs Lillard is pretty amazing considering how touted Davis was coming out of college. It will be interesting to see how they stack up in ten years.
 
The biggest problems right now is Dame's shooting percentage (which is abysmal) and his assist numbers are down.

I keep hearing people on the radio claim that Dame is "coasting", that he's "pacing himself", and that he's trying to "preserve himself" for later in the season by playing a less demanding brand of basketball. Anybody buying that? That basically sounds like people giving excuses for what is perceived as subpar play.
 
worried about post count then make 2 posts back to back instead of using edit button. nice

davis is as over rated as blake griffin. league is so obsessed with jersey sales it's pathetic

One was a response to the OP, one was a joke post. I keep that separate. But it is nice some noob tries to call me out and talk about quality over quantity when posting, what, 20 posts per day, and most of them (like this one I'm responding to) is more quantity than quality.
 
Can't believe how poorly many of you think of Anthony Davis. He might be the best PF in the league RIGHT NOW and if I could choose one big man to build a team around it would certainly be him.

Agree that I'd take Lillard over Drummond. Drummond makes some really impressive plays, but everything inbetween those plays is kind of meh. Like someone else posted, I tend to think Drummond could be a sexier version of your typical defensive minded NBA C. Yes I think he'll be better than most C's but hard to see him turning into a scorer and like all of you have mentioned he is a horrific FT shooter which keeps him out of the game at crucial times. Lillard is a star right now, Drummond's upside is like a Tyson Chandler kind of defensive stalwart, and hes got a long way to go mentally to even reach that.

Anyone with ESPN Insider have the whole list? I'd like to know where Harrison F. Barnes is ranked.
 
Can't believe how poorly many of you think of Anthony Davis. He might be the best PF in the league RIGHT NOW and if I could choose one big man to build a team around it would certainly be him.

.

I thought most of us were giving Davis his just dues for being the best player in the draft. (Only one person said otherwise-I think)
 
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I keep hearing people on the radio claim that Dame is "coasting", that he's "pacing himself", and that he's trying to "preserve himself" for later in the season by playing a less demanding brand of basketball. Anybody buying that? That basically sounds like people giving excuses for what is perceived as subpar play.

No. I don't believe that he's coasting. That's not in his nature. That's not who Damian Lillard is.

Personally, I believe it's a mixture of a few factors. Firstly, I think his confidence is off a little bit. He had that horrible game against Sacramento and he hasn't been the same since then. He supposedly worked on that floater during the summer, but it looks like he's gone away from it for lack of confidence.

The first five games

Vs Phoenix - 32 points, 10-20 shooting, 6-12 from deep, 6-8 from the line
Vs Denver - 18 points, 6-13 shooting, 3-4 from deep, 3-4 from the line
Vs Spurs - 25 points, 7-16 shooting, 3-8 from deep, 8-8 from the line
Vs Houston - 22 points, 7-17 shooting, 4-9 from deep, 4-7 from the line
Vs Sac - 22 points, 5-13 shooting, 4-9 from deep, 8-8 from the line

Since then
Vs Sac - 4 points, 1-15 shooting, 0-5 from deep, 2-4 from the line
Vs Detroit - 25 points, 7-16 shooting, 5-8 from deep, 6-6 from the line
Vs Phoenix - 11 points, 4-13 shooting, 0-2 from deep, 3-4 from the line
Vs Boston - 17 points, 6-15 shooting, 2-6 from deep, 3-3 from the line
Vs Toronto - 25 points, 10-22 shooting, 3-10 from deep, 2-2 from the line
Vs Brooklyn - 19 points, 6-13 shooting, 2-7 from deep, 5-5 from the line
Vs Milwaukee - 19 points, 7-18 shooting, 2-7 from deep, 3-3 from the line
Vs Chicago - 20 points, 6-14 shooting, 3-5 from deep, 5-5 from the line
Vs GS - 20 points, 6-20 shooting, 2-7 from deep, 6-6 from the line
Vs NY - 23 points, 9-20 shooting, 2-7 from deep, 3-3 from the line

Secondly, I think the team is playing a different brand of basketball. With Wes playing as well as he has, and Mo coming off the bench, I think Dame is still trying to find a rhythm in this offense. It doesn't help that Aldridge is struggling from the field at the same time as Lillard. It makes things much more complicated than if it was just one or the other.

Lastly, I think the refs aren't giving him the benefit of the doubt. I thought he'd get more calls this season, but I haven't seen much difference in how the refs treat him. He still draws contact when he goes to the hole, but the refs hardly ever give him the whistle. Teams have become very physical in how they defend him. I've noticed on multiple occasions that defenders body him, they try to knock him off his rhythm when he's bringing the ball up the floor, and when he tries to drive. Until the refs start calling this contact, it will make things much more difficult for Lillard. If you look at his first five games, he had three games with 8 FTA. He hasn't had a single 8 FTA since then. Why? He still goes to the hole. He still draws contact.

He's also having some stinkers from deep. During our run he's had four 2-7 games from deep. I think he's relying too much on his three point shot because he can get it whenever he wants, and it's a security blanket of sorts for him. I think he's frustrated with his lack of calls from the refs, and I think he's lost his confidence in his mid-range game a bit. He'll get it back. I have complete faith in Lillard's work ethic, but I also think he's hurting from not having a true point guard on the team right now. Williams is a scoring guard. Lillard played some of his best ball last year when we had Maynor running the point next to him.
 
That SAC game was around when Stotts started the new rotation pattern of taking Dame out of the game earlier to reduce his minutes.

He'll adjust. No need to fret. His game is still filthy sick. Just needs to use more of that midrange.
 
That SAC game was around when Stotts started the new rotation pattern of taking Dame out of the game earlier to reduce his minutes.

He'll adjust. No need to fret. His game is still filthy sick. Just needs to use more of that midrange.

Eh.... I thought he had been doing that rotation since the preseason.
 
I keep hearing people on the radio claim that Dame is "coasting", that he's "pacing himself", and that he's trying to "preserve himself" for later in the season by playing a less demanding brand of basketball. Anybody buying that? That basically sounds like people giving excuses for what is perceived as subpar play.

Na.

I think it's a matter of Dame being a piece to a puzzle rather than the centerpiece he's used to being. While his assists are down, he's playing more team centric ball along with a seriously increased effort on the defense end. Couple those together and it's only natural his production would go down.
 
I'm pretty much over statistics like PER. My eyes do a much better job.

PER doesn't account for defense so i could see your argument if AD wasn't a beast defensively as well as being super efficient offensively. He is the new KG he just needs some outside shooting and a competent center and they'll be a hell of a team. Jrue Holiday was a nice pickup but they would have been better served running Noel and Davis together IMO. Vasquez wasn't a bad PG at all, they shouldn't have gone after Tyreke with the roster they have he isn't a complementary piece there.
 
I keep hearing people on the radio claim that Dame is "coasting", that he's "pacing himself", and that he's trying to "preserve himself" for later in the season by playing a less demanding brand of basketball. Anybody buying that? That basically sounds like people giving excuses for what is perceived as subpar play.

His assists look down mostly because he's playing fewer minutes (36.8 versus 38.6). So let's take a look at some normalized data: http://www.basketball-reference.com/pi/shareit/hq65C

Those are Damian's Per 36 minutes stats. You'll notice that his assists are basically the same (5.9 vs 6.0) as last year, per 36 minutes. His FG's made is exactly the same (6.3), but he's making 0.6 more 3 pointers this year than last year. He's also hitting 1.3 more free throws. He's rebounding a bit better (4.1 vs 2.9), and turning the ball over less (2.1 vs 2.7). He's also averaging 19.7 points versus 17.8 points.

So his shooting percentage is in the toilet right now, but overall, he's playing much better, more in control, more involved in rebounding. This is why his PER is up around 19.0 this season instead of 16.4 last season.
 
The assists to turnover ratio going from close to 2:1 to 3:1 is a pretty big deal and probably the most encouraging sign.
 
The assists to turnover ratio going from close to 2:1 to 3:1 is a pretty big deal and probably the most encouraging sign.

Good call out. Damian isn't being hounded as much as last year because Mo and Nic are helping out a lot more. There's a lot more assists to go around, too, so Damian's numbers are effectively the same while everyone else's have gone up, but since the offense doesn't operate with Lillard as the pure hub anymore, it takes a ton of stress off him.
 
Unselfish play by Damian is not going to get him much praise but it is going to win games. Team first players sacrifice being the man to better contribute to the overall success of the team.
 
Good call out. Damian isn't being hounded as much as last year because Mo and Nic are helping out a lot more. There's a lot more assists to go around, too, so Damian's numbers are effectively the same while everyone else's have gone up, but since the offense doesn't operate with Lillard as the pure hub anymore, it takes a ton of stress off him.

Partly that, but I also get the sense he's making better decisions with the ball in the games I've watched. More patient, better at reading the defense and just more savvy at the point.
 
Partly that, but I also get the sense he's making better decisions with the ball in the games I've watched. More patient, better at reading the defense and just more savvy at the point.

Agreed; if he can get better at finishing on the drive, his number will be gaudy. That's the only part of his game where I don't feel he's mastering things ahead of time.
 
The finishing around the rim thing is the one area where I'm a little bit concerned. He's not "Bassy bad," but it seems like he's too enamored with the circus-shot layup rather than just going into a defender's chest and finishing or forcing the refs to call a foul.
 
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