Those Darn Obstructionist Republicans!

[barfo]

Through January 15. The debt ceiling increase is through Feb 7. If they don't increase the debt ceiling, they're going to have to change what spending they do authorize. By design.

When I "win," we all do.

Yep, through Jan 15. Then the curtain rises and the drama begins anew.

When you "win", hell freezes over. Or maybe it's the other way around.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Yep, through Jan 15. Then the curtain rises and the drama begins anew.

When you "win", hell freezes over. Or maybe it's the other way around.

barfo

When I win, Social Security will be sound. Medicare, too.

That's why you win, too.

If you have children, they'll be thanking us winners for not saddling them with taxes required to pay the interest on the debt due to the debt ceiling increases.

 

[maxiep]

The whole default thing was/is very concerning. I don't care which side you're on, that shit cannot be allowed to happen.

Um, you do know if it happens, it's President Obama's decision, right? There's always enough money to cover the interest on the debt.

 

[maxiep]

Geez I hate this!!
The Republicans should have held, let Obama and the Dems run out of money it they want to go there.
Then vote to impeach Obama if he failed to service the debt and blow the 14th amendment.
The final show down is way the hell over due.

Yep. This was a friendly fire casualty. The real villains are the Republicans that looked at Ted Cruz and Mike Lee as the enemy rather than President Obama, Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi.

 

[maxiep]

Yes, I heard that made up story from the media. It's a red herring and preposterous.

I love the canard of "costing" the economy $24B. We're borrowing every cent of that $24B, so all it took for that $24B is $30B-$40B in principal and interest.

 

[maxiep]

We don't have to pay park rangers today, for work they might do next week.

There are some that think that being hired by the government means we have a lifetime obligation to them. I have a crazy idea that people can be hired/fired based on the ability to pay them or whether or not we need them.

Bottom line, we actually employed Park Rangers during the shutdown to occupy parks where none had been posted before. Why? To shut down the parks. We turned non-essential employees into essential ones just to inflict pain on the American people.

You stay classy, Chocolate Nixon.

 

[maxiep]

I agree that there are a lot of redundant functions and departments in the federal government and that there many areas where cuts can and should be made, but they mostly add up to a drop in the bucket compared to defense spending and entitlements for Social Security and Medicare. You could strip the Federal bureaucracy to the bone and we'd still be facing an insolvent future.

Until and unless we raise the retirement age to more accurately reflect average life expectancy and until and unless the health care system in this country gets completely overhauled to deal with the way it's administered and paid for and until and unless we stop overspending on defense nothing is going to get fixed and we'll keep fighting over these secondary and tertiary issues.

Bingo.

We should take average life expectancy, and adjust the retirement age to a year or two below it.

 

[MarAzul]

Yep. This was a friendly fire casualty. The real villains are the Republicans that looked at Ted Cruz and Mike Lee as the enemy rather than President Obama, Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi.

umm! You might be the only one that agreed with my position but the real question is Why?

I don't think these guys understand what is happening to them and I can't understand why not?
If Obama threatens to manage the government into default as prohibited in the 14th amendment, it seems to me that is more than ample reason for impeachment. Violating this principle as he did indeed threaten, should not be tolerated, the threat it's self is a high crime.

Now why the hell is that difficult to understand?

 

[barfo]

umm! You might be the only one that agreed with my position but the real question is Why?

I don't think these guys understand what is happening to them and I can't understand why not?
If Obama threatens to manage the government into default as prohibited in the 14th amendment, it seems to me that is more than ample reason for impeachment. Violating this principle as he did indeed threaten, should not be tolerated, the threat it's self is a high crime.

Now why the hell is that difficult to understand?

It might be that McConnell and Boehner understand their political situation better than you do?

barfo

 

[jlprk]

Hypocrite.


http://gawker.com/tea-party-republican-defends-being-on-medicaid-while-op-1446552792

 

[BrianFromWA]

It might be that McConnell and Boehner understand their political situation better than you do?

barfo

"The" political situation or "their" political situation?

 

[barfo]

"The" political situation or "their" political situation?

Is there really a difference? I wasn't necessarily trying to imply self-interest, although of course that's involved.

barfo

 

[maxiep]

umm! You might be the only one that agreed with my position but the real question is Why?

I don't think these guys understand what is happening to them and I can't understand why not?
If Obama threatens to manage the government into default as prohibited in the 14th amendment, it seems to me that is more than ample reason for impeachment. Violating this principle as he did indeed threaten, should not be tolerated, the threat it's self is a high crime.

Now why the hell is that difficult to understand?

It's difficult for many to understand because Washington is a bubble. I lived there long enough to know it's an alternate reality. It's easy for them to get sucked into it and believe it's reality.

What should have happened is that Boehner and McConnell should have sent their members home to talk with them and see what they thought. Instead, they let themselves be controlled and guided by the polls, which can be massaged. It's no accident that there were 41 stories on the shutdown, 41 of them blaming the Republicans and 0 blaming the Democrats. Yet, in the original post, it was shown that those same Republicans tried 11 times to give something to the Senate.

However, your point about the 14th Amendment is critical. Congress has the power of the purse. It's not the Executive Branch's. And President Obama certainly does not have the right to threaten default when we have the money to pay for it.

 

[barfo]

What should have happened is that Boehner and McConnell should have sent their members home to talk with them and see what they thought. Instead, they let themselves be controlled and guided by the polls, which can be massaged.

That's the problem. The Republicans forgot to unskew the polls!

barfo

 

[BlazerCaravan]

That's the problem. The Republicans forgot to unskew the polls!

barfo

Oh god that was the best part of 2012. So fucking classic.

 

[MarAzul]

It's difficult for many to understand because Washington is a bubble. I lived there long enough to know it's an alternate reality. It's easy for them to get sucked into it and believe it's reality.

What should have happened is that Boehner and McConnell should have sent their members home to talk with them and see what they thought. Instead, they let themselves be controlled and guided by the polls, which can be massaged. It's no accident that there were 41 stories on the shutdown, 41 of them blaming the Republicans and 0 blaming the Democrats. Yet, in the original post, it was shown that those same Republicans tried 11 times to give something to the Senate.

However, your point about the 14th Amendment is critical. Congress has the power of the purse. It's not the Executive Branch's. And President Obama certainly does not have the right to threaten default when we have the money to pay for it.

No he does not have the power to take this nation into default. It would be mismanagement if by accident and a high crime if intentional. I do believe he actually threaten to do just that and they (republicans rhinos) let him get away with it by pretending it is a political consideration. This nation needs firm control over it's spending and this ADA is a very piss poor beginning. The republican fold is not what this nation needed. If they do not get this horrific problem fixed before interest rates on US treasure notes climb and at some point they must, we will be beyond the point of no return.

The next Congress must be a Republican majority in both house and they must have the balls to set the course right, fiscal solvency, or that's it, we will have run too far to turn in time to avoid running hard on the rocks.

 

[barfo]

The next Congress must be a Republican majority in both house

Uh, good luck with that. Anything could happen in the next 12 months, but it seems less and less likely. Republicans don't seem to be very good at politics lately.

barfo

 

[jlprk]

The shutdown cost $24 billion.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...s-that-cost-less-than-the-government-shutdown

 

[Denny Crane]

Seems like it costs us about $10B a day to run the government. So it cost us $24B for 16 days to shut it down or $160B to run it. $24B is cheap.

 

[barfo]

Seems like it costs us about $10B a day to run the government. So it cost us $24B for 16 days to shut it down or $160B to run it. $24B is cheap.

First, most of the government wasn't shut down, so obviously costs didn't fall from $160 to $24.
Second, $24B is not the cost of government during the shutdown, it's an estimate of the decrease in GDP caused by the shutdown.
Based on prior shutdowns, it is expected that the actual cost of running the government increased somewhat during the shutdown.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

First, most of the government wasn't shut down, so obviously costs didn't fall from $160 to $24.
Second, $24B is not the cost of government during the shutdown, it's an estimate of the decrease in GDP caused by the shutdown.
Based on prior shutdowns, it is expected that the actual cost of running the government increased somewhat during the shutdown.

barfo

Discretionary spending is about 1/3 of the government. So $160/3 is still > $24

Forget the B for billions. Your guys throw around $trillions like they are nickels. I throw around nickels like they are manhole covers.

it only costs more because they're paying people unemployment and then back pay on top of it. And to pay guys to put up barricades around open air monuments.

 

[bluefrog]

It's no accident that there were 41 stories on the shutdown, 41 of them blaming the Republicans and 0 blaming the Democrats. Yet, in the original post, it was shown that those same Republicans tried 11 times to give something to the Senate.

Republicans always play the victim card. Here you go, 41 stories blaming Democrats for the government shutdown:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...ernment-shutdown-government-workers-obamacare

http://www.nationalreview.com/campa...d-about-de-fault-instead-default-jim-geraghty

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/09/rand-paul-government-shutdown-will-entirely-barack-obamas-fault/

http://www.policymic.com/articles/6...shutdown-obama-and-the-democrats-are-at-fault

http://www.ktracy.com/politics/government-shutdown-100-democrats-fault

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/b...tdown-explains-democrats-fault/#axzz2i5O1KnAG

http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-co...shutdown-will-be-democrats-fault-2723748.html

http://cognoscenti.wbur.org/2013/10/02/shutdown-john-sivolella

http://www.plunderbund.com/2013/10/06/gop-the-shutdown-is-awesome-and-popular-and-obamas-fault/

http://spectator.org/archives/2013/10/02/its-the-presidents-fault

http://www.newsmax.com/Murdock/GOP-Shutdown-Obamacare-Reid/2013/10/15/id/531089

http://www.thesecularconservative.com/2013/10/government-shutdown-is-democrats-fault.html

http://alextimes.com/2013/10/democrats-deserve-blame-for-government-shutdown/

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/10/college-students-blame-obama-democrats-government-shutdown/

http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/rino-republicans-breaking-rank

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Arkansas-poll-democrats-shutdown/2013/10/14/id/531011

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar..._obama_needlessly_scaring_seniors_120252.html

http://reason.com/blog/2013/09/24/dont-forget-to-blame-senate-democrats-an

http://www.policymic.com/articles/6...vernment-shutdown-you-should-be-thanking-them

http://onlineathens.com/election/2013-10-03/poll-most-georgians-blame-democrats-government-shutdown

http://www.sourcenewspapers.com/articles/2013/10/05/opinion/doc524f086e30eb0637857693.txt

http://reason.com/archives/2013/10/01/let-us-be-clear-obama-deserves-chief-res

http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/10/01/opinion-obama-deserves-chief-responsibility-govt-shutdown

http://www.newsmax.com/MediaWire/limbaugh-government-shutdown-obama/2013/08/19/id/521159

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/blaming-obama-for-government-shutdown/

http://www.postindependent.com/opinion/8473292-113/government-leader-obama-president

http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/2013/10/perry-says-shutdown-is-obamas-fault-for.html

http://www.cps-news.com/2013/10/07/like-government-shutdown-obamas-fault/

http://beforeitsnews.com/obama/2013...-be-entirely-barack-obamas-fault-2456124.html

http://punditfromanotherplanet.com/...ny-americans-blame-both-parties-for-shutdown/

http://www.redstate.com/2013/10/18/the-budget-shutdown-was-about-ideology-not-tactics/

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/18/Actually-Obama-Manufactured-the-Crisis

http://www.redstate.com/2013/10/15/power-and-obedience/

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...ally-matter-us-when-shutdown-ends_759185.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/04/who_shut_down_the_government_120206.html

http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...closed-but-congress-gym-stays-open.htm?p=full

http://www.reviewjournal.com/opinio...deral-officials-should-end-theater-open-parks

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...in_rejects_cutting_deals_with_gop_120246.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/campa...uld-nudge-democrats-they-couldnt-jim-geraghty

http://pjmedia.com/blog/shutdown-autopsy/

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304373104579105483307740074

 

[Denny Crane]

Awesome.

You quoted a bunch of blogs by guys like this:

Kevin is an Air Force veteran, terrorism and counterterrorism expert, and jack of all trades. KTracy's day job is designing electrical systems for new fossil power plants and environmental solutions. On the side, he keeps a blog, fundraises for conservative political candidates and the St. Baldrick's Foundation, writes and illustrates comic books, and studies foreign affairs in depth. Kevin's hobbies include gardening, road trips, and spending time with family, including his most excellent wife, Krista.

As if it were NBC News.

Neat!

 

[Denny Crane]

To clarify maxiep's claim:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/netwo...-gop-in-41-stories-0-for-dems/article/2537363

Republicans never expected to get a fair shake in the Big Three networks' coverage of the 16-day government shutdown, but the final tally of stories blaming the GOP is stunning: 41 stories blamed Republicans and zero blamed Democrats.

Nightly, 20 million Americans heard “a version of the shutdown story that could easily have emanated from Barack Obama's own White House,” said the new report from the Media Research Center.

The report, provided to Secrets, found that a total of 41 stories blamed Republicans for the shutdown. None blamed the Democrats. Another 17 blamed both sides.

In addition, those interviewed by the night news broadcasts by ABC, CBS and NBC whacked the Republicans by a six-to-one ratio, said the report.

“The broadcast networks invariably blamed Republicans for the impasse; spotlighted dozens of examples of how Americans were being victimized; and ran scores of soundbites from furloughed federal workers and others harmed by the shutdown — even as they ignored examples of how the Obama administration and Senate Democrats were working to make the shutdown as painful as possible,” said the report.

 

[bluefrog]

Awesome.

You quoted a bunch of blogs by guys like this:

Kevin is an Air Force veteran, terrorism and counterterrorism expert, and jack of all trades. KTracy's day job is designing electrical systems for new fossil power plants and environmental solutions. On the side, he keeps a blog, fundraises for conservative political candidates and the St. Baldrick's Foundation, writes and illustrates comic books, and studies foreign affairs in depth. Kevin's hobbies include gardening, road trips, and spending time with family, including his most excellent wife, Krista.

As if it were NBC News.

Neat!

Attack the messenger when the truth isn't on your side.

 

[Denny Crane]

Attack the messenger when the truth isn't on your side.

Whatever.

 

[barfo]

Republicans never expected to get a fair shake in the Big Three networks' coverage of the 16-day government shutdown, but the final tally of stories blaming the GOP is stunning: 41 stories blamed Republicans and zero blamed Democrats.

What do you think a 'fair shake' would be? 50/50?

If Republicans say the moon is made of cheese, and the democrats say it is made of rock, should the media report that the moon is 50% cheese, 50% rock?

I kind of think truth should actually matter in reporting, and the truth is that the Republicans planned the government shutdown and executed on that plan. So yes, it's their fault.

A further point is that you guys (and many of the republicans in congress) actually think the shutdown was a good thing, so how can you complain that the papers should have blamed it on the democrats? That seems a little bit, uhm, hypocritical?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

What do you think a 'fair shake' would be? 50/50?

If Republicans say the moon is made of cheese, and the democrats say it is made of rock, should the media report that the moon is 50% cheese, 50% rock?

I kind of think truth should actually matter in reporting, and the truth is that the Republicans planned the government shutdown and executed on that plan. So yes, it's their fault.

A further point is that you guys (and many of the republicans in congress) actually think the shutdown was a good thing, so how can you complain that the papers should have blamed it on the democrats? That seems a little bit, uhm, hypocritical?

barfo

The media should report "republicans say the moon is made of cheese, democrats say it's made of rocks." If those are the facts report them. No "blame" involved.

It's only partially republicans' responsibility. In a government where compromise is required to get things done, the president and Harry Reid consistently stated their refusal to negotiate, pass and sign bills to fund parts of the govt., etc. They were ALL clearly willing to let govt. shutdown through inaction.

So wouldn't it be hypocrisy to whine about the govt. being shutdown, while doing nothing to prevent it?

 

[barfo]

The media should report "republicans say the moon is made of cheese, democrats say it's made of rocks." If those are the facts report them. No "blame" involved.

Should the media mention that the moon isn't actually made of cheese, or should they just present the two claims with no commentary?

barfo

 

[Further]

Listening to different podcasts, reading news stories, watching clips online. Sure looks like not only is this a huge blunder for republicans, but that it's leaving the republicans more scattered then ever while bringing together the democrats. I have no idea how long these effects will linger, or how they will play out over the long haul, but it sure seems like this could have a major effect on future elections. Time will tell.