Those Darn Obstructionist Republicans!

[Denny Crane]

Should the media mention that the moon isn't actually made of cheese, or should they just present the two claims with no commentary?

barfo

Your analogy is tremendously flawed.

Good work!

 

[Denny Crane]

Here ya go, barfo.

$24B is chump change!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/18/us-debt-jumps-400-billion-tops-17-trillion-first-t/

U.S. debt jumps a record $328 billion — tops $17 trillion for first time

U.S. debt jumped a record $328 billion on Thursday, the first day the federal government was able to borrow money under the deal President Obama and Congress sealed this week.

The debt now equals $17.075 trillion, according to figures the Treasury Department posted online on Friday.

The $328 billion increase shattered the previous high of $238 billion set two years ago.

 

[magnifier661]

Holy shit Denny! That can't be true?!

 

[MarAzul]

Holy shit Denny! That can't be true?!

That takes leadership, the kind Barrack Obama is overflowing with.

 

[magnifier661]

That takes leadership, the kind Barrack Obama is overflowing with.

I still can't believe the support this guy gets. It's embarrassing really

 

[maxiep]

What's the big deal? It's just $1,064.94 for every man, woman and child in the US. It's not like the money ever has to be repaid.

The worst thing is the collapse is going to hurt the supporters of President Obama first and the hardest.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

What's the big deal? It's just $1,064.94 for every man, woman and child in the US. It's not like the money ever has to be repaid.

The worst thing is the collapse is going to hurt the supporters of President Obama first and the hardest.

I know how this sounds, but I almost welcome the collapse

 

[barfo]

"Here's a question for conservatives and Republicans: Going into the 2012 Election Day, or even in the last few days before Election Day, did you think Mitt Romney was going to win? A couple of months ago, did you think the strategy of threatening to shut down the government or prevent raising the debt ceiling, to force the outright repeal or defunding of Obamacare, would really work?"

"So the question is whether conservatives and Republicans should begin to worry if their instincts--specifically, their judgment on matters of politics and policy--are a bit off. Maybe 'spectacularly wrong' would be more accurate."

This shoe fit anyone here?

barfo

 

[barfo]

What's the big deal? It's just $1,064.94 for every man, woman and child in the US. It's not like the money ever has to be repaid.

You are right, it's not like that. The last time the US had zero national debt was 1835.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

You are right, it's not like that. The last time the US had zero national debt was 1835.

barfo

I charge $50 on my credit card monthly. So I have $50 in debt. But I pay it off at the end of the month.

Maybe the last time I had zero debt was 1835, too. But the amount is manageable and certainly not irresponsible.

 

[magnifier661]

You are right, it's not like that. The last time the US had zero national debt was 1835.

barfo

Dude you sound like the person in a married couple that thinks "hey we have credit card that equal $30k! Let's spend it because we can!"

 

[barfo]

Dude you sound like the person in a married couple that thinks "hey we have credit card that equal $30k! Let's spend it because we can!"

Dude the US government debt is not really like a credit card. At all.

Personally, I've never paid interest on a credit card. It's a very stupid way to borrow money.

But that doesn't mean that all debt is like credit card debt and that no person or organization should ever borrow money.

I actually agree with you guys that the US has too much debt. But I don't agree that the sky is falling because of it.

People are always claiming the sky is falling because of x, y, or z. It rarely falls, and when it does fall it is rarely for the reasons people on the internet were predicting.

barfo

 

[magnifier661]

Dude the US government debt is not really like a credit card. At all.

Personally, I've never paid interest on a credit card. It's a very stupid way to borrow money.

But that doesn't mean that all debt is like credit card debt and that no person or organization should ever borrow money.

I actually agree with you guys that the US has too much debt. But I don't agree that the sky is falling because of it.

People are always claiming the sky is falling because of x, y, or z. It rarely falls, and when it does fall it is rarely for the reasons people on the internet were predicting.

barfo

If you have $1,000 in interest payments, and only bring in $900 in earnings, Can you survive?

The reason why we haven't fell yet is because the banks giving us loans are waiting it out. They are making money still. But there will come a time when the revolving debt is too high; that we will never be able to come out of it unless we forfeit our loans.

It's simple economics. When our president doesn't take this into account; he is not looking at the best interest for the people. If the country goes into bankruptcy; then the value of our dollar goes to shit. See what happened to Greece for reference. I bet the European Union wished they never took on Greece.

 

[barfo]

If you have $1,000 in interest payments, and only bring in $900 in earnings, Can you survive?

The reason why we haven't fell yet is because the banks giving us loans are waiting it out. They are making money still. But there will come a time when the revolving debt is too high; that we will never be able to come out of it unless we forfeit our loans.

It's simple economics. When our president doesn't take this into account; he is not looking at the best interest for the people. If the country goes into bankruptcy; then the value of our dollar goes to shit. See what happened to Greece for reference. I bet the European Union wished they never took on Greece.

Yes, the US is just like Greece. Let's count the ways.

1. Both have more debt than they should
2. Both are nations
3. Both have an 'e' in their name
4. Both are on planet earth

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

If you have $1,000 in interest payments, and only bring in $900 in earnings, Can you survive?

The reason why we haven't fell yet is because the banks giving us loans are waiting it out. They are making money still. But there will come a time when the revolving debt is too high; that we will never be able to come out of it unless we forfeit our loans.

It's simple economics. When our president doesn't take this into account; he is not looking at the best interest for the people. If the country goes into bankruptcy; then the value of our dollar goes to shit. See what happened to Greece for reference. I bet the European Union wished they never took on Greece.

Forget about it Mags, its like you are talking to a brick, except this block head parrots back
Barry speak.

 

[magnifier661]

Yes, the US is just like Greece. Let's count the ways.

1. Both have more debt than they should
2. Both are nations
3. Both have an 'e' in their name
4. Both are on planet earth

barfo

5. Both have a very extreme "right wing" leader that doesn't give a shit about a budget.
6. Both are spending more money than they take in.
7. Both have blind lower class that don't understand their leader is a joke

 

[donkiez]

I think people tend to oversimplify the nation debt by comparing it to household debt. There is a demand for government debt which creates a market, there is no demand for personal debt. The amount of debt as Barfo said is to high, but overall as long as we maintain a high demand for our debt, then some debt is a good thing. Debt to GDP ratio is better tool to gauge our situation with. The republicans (tea partiers) are not being the fiscally responsible party they claim to be, as this fabricated shutdown hurts our overall standing in the world and weakens the demand for our debt. Obama just called their bluff, which could have also hurt our nation in the short run but if he had given into republican extortion tactics then the long term political damage would have been worse.

 

[Denny Crane]

Debt to GDP is over 100% for the first time since we were in an all out world war II.

Not the best measure, though.

How about $.20 on every $1 of revenue (of all kinds) paying interest payments.

Or think of it as a 33% tax on everything the government spend on except military and SS/medicare.

The shutdown this time, last time, Obama's debt rating decrease, etc., have not affected demand for our debt. We just had less of a need to borrow for 16 days.

And there is plenty of demand for consumer debt. - nearly as many $trillions worth as there is for the government's.

 

[MarAzul]

I think people tend to oversimplify the nation debt by comparing it to household debt. There is a demand for government debt which creates a market, there is no demand for personal debt. The amount of debt as Barfo said is to high, but overall as long as we maintain a high demand for our debt, then some debt is a good thing. Debt to GDP ratio is better tool to gauge our situation with. The republicans (tea partiers) are not being the fiscally responsible party they claim to be, as this fabricated shutdown hurts our overall standing in the world and weakens the demand for our debt. Obama just called their bluff, which could have also hurt our nation in the short run but if he had given into republican extortion tactics then the long term political damage would have been worse.

Yes Sir! Obama did indeed call their hand with his bluff to actually manage the country into default as prohibited under the 14th amendment. But people should wake up, Barrack OBama
actually threaten to commit a High Crime to purposely mismanage the the nation into default.

The Republican actually thought he might just be damn fool enough to do it, if he did not get his way. That threat in it's self should get the guy impeached.

 

[donkiez]

Debt to GDP is over 100% for the first time since we were in an all out world war II.

Not the best measure, though.

How about $.20 on every $1 of revenue (of all kinds) paying interest payments.

Or think of it as a 33% tax on everything the government spend on except military and SS/medicare.

The shutdown this time, last time, Obama's debt rating decrease, etc., have not affected demand for our debt. We just had less of a need to borrow for 16 days.

And there is plenty of demand for consumer debt. - nearly as many $trillions worth as there is for the government's.

So your right, and I agree our debt ratio is also to high, but again Ill quote Barfo and say its not sky is falling levels. Interest payments to government spending is even better also but gives similar results.

I'm guilty of oversimplifying also. The difference between consumer and government debt demand is that we as individuals are part of the bigger picture and none of has any effect on the interest rates of those securities. The government is a single entity that can manipulate its interest rates by messing with the supply. People are operating in partial equilibrium while the government operates in a general equilibrium.

 

[donkiez]

Yes Sir! Obama did indeed call their hand with his bluff to actually manage the country into default as prohibited under the 14th amendment. But people should wake up, Barrack OBama
actually threaten to commit a High Crime to purposely mismanage the the nation into default.

The Republican actually thought he might just be damn fool enough to do it, if he did not get his way. That threat in it's self should get the guy impeached.

hows that hateraid taste? I'm guessing the flavor is not grape.

 

[Denny Crane]

So your right, and I agree our debt ratio is also to high, but again Ill quote Barfo and say its not sky is falling levels. Interest payments to government spending is even better also but gives similar results.

I'm guilty of oversimplifying also. The difference between consumer and government debt demand is that we as individuals are part of the bigger picture and none of has any effect on the interest rates of those securities. The government is a single entity that can manipulate its interest rates by messing with the supply. People are operating in partial equilibrium while the government operates in a general equilibrium.

So interest rates set by the government are so near zero they can't lower the interest rate in case we need that kind of fiscal stimulus. That's really fucked, because that has been the tool used in recent recessions where we've had actual strong recoveries. If they raise the interest rates, or demand for our T-Bills falls, the government all of a sudden has an $800B interest payment instead of $400B. Where's that extra $400B coming from?

What's worse is we're borrowing more, hand over fist. At $1T in a $16T economy, again, we've not borrowed like that since WW II if then.

Those $400B interest payments are on debt our parents left us. OK, $200B of it is, the other $200B foisted on us by Democrats.

Imagine what good things could be done with that money, or even *GASP* less taxes needed (enough to cut everyone's income tax in half).

You can't spin it away that the $400B isn't costing us opportunity elsewhere. It's only getting worse.

 

[donkiez]

So interest rates set by the government are so near zero they can't lower the interest rate in case we need that kind of fiscal stimulus. That's really fucked, because that has been the tool used in recent recessions where we've had actual strong recoveries. If they raise the interest rates, or demand for our T-Bills falls, the government all of a sudden has an $800B interest payment instead of $400B. Where's that extra $400B coming from?

What's worse is we're borrowing more, hand over fist. At $1T in a $16T economy, again, we've not borrowed like that since WW II if then.

Those $400B interest payments are on debt our parents left us. OK, $200B of it is, the other $200B foisted on us by Democrats.

Imagine what good things could be done with that money, or even *GASP* less taxes needed (enough to cut everyone's income tax in half).

You can't spin it away that the $400B isn't costing us opportunity elsewhere. It's only getting worse.

It is getting worse but the real problem with the debt is the ever expanding costs of health care, thats the only portion that is inflating a rampant rate. That needs to get under control and thats what Obamacare is trying to do, however its a pay to play model and in the long run should bring us back in check.

The $400B can just be printed in dire straits. Its not the perfect system but its the one we are using. The reason why there is a demand for our currency is because its impossible for us to default as long as we have access to the printers. If we actually default for some other reason though, confidence is shaken. By instantly removing access to the printers is irresponsible and simple minded. I agree we need to move in another direction but its like a big oil tanker, we can just stop and do a 180.

By the way I can spin anything in any direction I want because I use the fox news model.

 

[Denny Crane]

It is getting worse but the real problem with the debt is the ever expanding costs of health care, thats the only portion that is inflating a rampant rate. That needs to get under control and thats what Obamacare is trying to do, however its a pay to play model and in the long run should bring us back in check.

The $400B can just be printed in dire straits. Its not the perfect system but its the one we are using. The reason why there is a demand for our currency is because its impossible for us to default as long as we have access to the printers. If we actually default for some other reason though, confidence is shaken. By instantly removing access to the printers is irresponsible and simple minded. I agree we need to move in another direction but its like a big oil tanker, we can just stop and do a 180.

By the way I can spin anything in any direction I want because I use the fox news model.

As with anything the government gets involved in, the cost goes up.

I guess I don't get it. I see car insurance commercials on TV where the companies are undercutting one another and offering cash back bonuses. Life insurance is guaranteed to pay out at some point, and there's no spiraling inflation in the cost of that insurance; and it pays bigger payouts than the cost of multiple most expensive surgeries.

You can't make money out of thin air. They're not just printing money. They're making the rest of the money worth less (ultimately worthless even). I see the effect of that in the price of gas and at the grocery store. You probably spin that to be of some other cause.

 

[magnifier661]

It is getting worse but the real problem with the debt is the ever expanding costs of health care, thats the only portion that is inflating a rampant rate. That needs to get under control and thats what Obamacare is trying to do, however its a pay to play model and in the long run should bring us back in check.

The $400B can just be printed in dire straits. Its not the perfect system but its the one we are using. The reason why there is a demand for our currency is because its impossible for us to default as long as we have access to the printers. If we actually default for some other reason though, confidence is shaken. By instantly removing access to the printers is irresponsible and simple minded. I agree we need to move in another direction but its like a big oil tanker, we can just stop and do a 180.

By the way I can spin anything in any direction I want because I use the fox news model.

What was the excuse the first term? The health care wasn't implemented yet; but Obama still spent more than bush did for two terms. We are in a record breaking spending frenzy right now and eventually they won't be able to tax the rich enough to cover.

Next in line will be the middle class; while the poor drive their escalade and live in 3,000 sq ft homes (government paying for half the bill).

I'm waiting for a president and congress to see the big picture. Democrat or republican. It really doesn't matter. What matters is this country is sliding into an economic disaster!

 

[MarAzul]

hows that hateraid taste? I'm guessing the flavor is not grape.

You nailed it! I hate to see anyone willfully screwing my nation up. The taste is bile.

 

[barfo]

They're making the rest of the money worth less (ultimately worthless even). I see the effect of that in the price of gas and at the grocery store.

Yes, the US is suffering runaway inflation. Soon a loaf of bread will cost $234,349,394,502.

Seriously? You think inflation is a problem right now?

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm going to start hording bread.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

And jelly. Bread is best with jelly.

 

[barfo]

And jelly. Bread is best with jelly.

And wine. And thou.

barfo