Thoughts About the Debate

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The_Lillard_King

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Well I haven't seen one of these threads yet, so I thought I would start one. I'm not going to take the time to break down the whole thing, just a few random thoughts to see if anyone wants to start talking about the debate (coming from an independent Obama supporter):

-my first thought is McCain ain't so bad . . . he isn't Bush too me. He comes across as some tough old son of a bitch, and sometimes those kind of people can make make great bosses (for the company not the employees).

-Also, I can almost go with McCain being a maverick who doesn't care what politcis say he is going to do the right thing . . .but I don't think I can ever get past the Palin pick . . . it is an example of how he in fact plays politics.

-Obama was Obama. Smooth . . . confident, calm and well spoken. I hope his intentions are right and that he isn't too extreme left. But he may be exactly what this country needs (Modern day JFK?)

-Also there is a thought that creeps in if Obama will be the safest choice for America . . . will he want to invest so much in this country he neglects national defesne and keeping up the fight against terrorist? But he can't be that naive, can he?

Overall my general impression is Obama is for the middle class and helping resurrect that part of America (which I think is badly needed). McCain will continue the policy of very pro-business (capitalist run the market) with little gov't oversight while trying to reduce gov't spending. Given the last eight years, I think it is time for a change.
 
McCains cheeks are inflated.... like a squirrel. I wonder if he stores nuts in them.
 
McCains cheeks are inflated.... like a squirrel. I wonder if he stores nuts in them.

I think he has a disorder? did he ever have a stroke? might be long term effects of his torture, like how he can't have a full range of motion w/ his arms
 
So who won the debate in your mind?

McCain. He sounded more relaxed and focused while Obama sounded like he had ADD with the way he just went off on a thousand tangents per answer. I only listened to 1/2 the debate on the radio, so I don't know how they came across on TV.
 
McCain. He sounded more relaxed and focused while Obama sounded like he had ADD with the way he just went off on a thousand tangents per answer. I only listened to 1/2 the debate on the radio, so I don't know how they came across on TV.

I think McCain sounded better on rqadio than he looked on TV (I caught some on radio and then watched the recording).

McCain wasn't as flustered as I thought he would be, but I thought he came across more anrgy.

I don't think this debate changed anyones's mind, I don't think it even convinced many undecided to go with one or the other.
 
McCain's face looks puffy because of melanoma surgery he had 8 years ago.
 
Based on all the polling, it seems that Obama has won the debate.

I thought it seemed like a tie, which I guess can be perceived as a win for Obama since McCain was supposed to dominate on foreign policy.
 
No polls like the CBS, CNN, and MediaCurves flash polls, polling the entire nation after the debate.

And also the daily trackers. Gallup showed Obama increase his lead, which means he had improved in the last day of the poll. Research 2000, which actually shows the daily poll of it's 3 day, daily tracker, showed Obama up 51 to 42 in the first day after the debate, a 2 point swing in Obama's direction. But Palin's favorability rating also dropped down to -10, so it is hard to tell if that had more of an effect on the polling, or the debate.

But if you put the daily tracker improvements for Obama, and the flash polls from debate night, it is pretty clear that Obama is coming out of the debate the winner.
 
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1564

Zogby Poll: Obama Narrowly Won First Debate, But Race Remains Too Close to Call

Likely voters give the Democrat a slight nod on his debate performance and in his overall handling of the current financial crisis


Utica, New York – Likely voters nationwide who watched Friday’s debate in Mississippi between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain gave Obama the win by the slightest of margins, a new Zogby Interactive survey shows.
The poll shows that 44% believed Obama won the debate, while 41% said McCain did. Another 16% said they watched the debate but were unsure who came out on top.
 
CBS Insta Poll shows Barack Obama won 39% to John McCain's 25% with 36% saying the debate was a draw.

Insider Advantage reports of those polled Obama won 42% to McCain's 41% with Undecided 17%

CNN reports voter opinions that Obama "did better" 51%, McCain "did better" 38%

The CNN poll showed men were evenly split, but women gave Obama higher marks 59% to 41% for McCain.
 
I came away from that debate thinking Obama got his but whipped. Obama looked like an amateur on foreign policy to McCain IMO.

I can certainly see however, why people think Obama did a good job as well.

BTW, that CNN poll polled more Democrats than Republicans.
 
I came away from that debate thinking Obama got his but whipped. Obama looked like an amateur on foreign policy to McCain IMO.

I can certainly see however, why people think Obama did a good job as well.

BTW, that CNN poll polled more Democrats than Republicans.



He clearly didn't have an answer for two little tricks McCain pulled out of his bag.....


YOU JUST DON'T GET IT.


He said that numerous times and it was a poor mans version of what Reagan did to Carter with his famous "there you go again".

Obama needs a pithy response up his sleeve for the next time McCain trys that.



The other thing was when McCain pulled out the bracelet gag. Sure, Barack had one too, and he was damn lucky he did....but it still made him look stupid.
 
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1564

Zogby Poll: Obama Narrowly Won First Debate, But Race Remains Too Close to Call

Likely voters give the Democrat a slight nod on his debate performance and in his overall handling of the current financial crisis


Utica, New York – Likely voters nationwide who watched Friday’s debate in Mississippi between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain gave Obama the win by the slightest of margins, a new Zogby Interactive survey shows.
The poll shows that 44% believed Obama won the debate, while 41% said McCain did. Another 16% said they watched the debate but were unsure who came out on top.

This poll should be taken with a grain of salt, because it is an online only poll. It is still a scientifically based poll, but Zogby Interactive polls have been the 2nd least accurate polls out there, only beating out the Columbus Dispatch polls.
 
The other thing was when McCain pulled out the bracelet gag. Sure, Barack had one too, and he was damn lucky he did....but it still made him look stupid.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/bracelet-wars.html

Bracelet Wars*

September 28, 2008 11:34 AM

<!-- Arnab Datta
--> It was meant as a sign of respect, but now conservatives are saying Sen. Barack Obama's invocation of his "hero bracelet" bearing the name of a fallen soldier is being done against the family's wishes, based on comments made months ago by the soldier's father.

Based on comments the mother of the family gave to the Associated Press today, however, the notion that Obama is wearing the hero bracelet against the wishes of the family -- or more specifically, the mother, who have him the bracelet -- is more complicated that it first seemed. She did ask Obama to stop mentioning her son on the stump, but she approved of the way Obama invoked her son in the debate.

Some background:

During Friday night's presidential debate, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., mentioned the moment when the mother of a fallen soldier gave him a hero bracelet bearing her son's name, Matthew Stanley.

"I had a town hall meeting in Wolfeboro, New Hampshire, and a woman stood up and she said, 'Senator McCain, I want you to do me the honor of wearing a bracelet with my son's name on it.'" McCain recalled. "He was 22 years old and he was killed in combat outside of Baghdad, Matthew Stanley, before Christmas last year. This was last August, a year ago. And I said, 'I will -- I will wear his bracelet with honor.'...And then she said, 'But, Senator McCain, I want you to do everything -- promise me one thing, that you'll do everything in your power to make sure that my son's death was not in vain.' That means that that mission succeeds, just like those young people who re-enlisted in Baghdad, just like the mother I met at the airport the other day whose son was killed. And they all say to me that we don't want defeat."

[video=youtube;Gdmywc39XD0]
as he appeared to be seeking the name on the bracelet on his wrist, Sen. Obama responded saying, "I've got a bracelet, too, from Sergeant, uh, from the mother of Sergeant Ryan David Jopek, given to me in Green Bay. She asked me, 'Can you please make sure another mother is not going through what I'm going through?' No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided. Our troops have performed brilliantly. The question is for the next president: 'Are we making good judgments about how to keep America safe? Precisely because sending our military into battle is such an enormous step."

**

In February, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported on the moment when Tracy Jopek gave Obama the bracelet, and Obama's mentioning of Jopek after he won the Wisconsin primary.

"We're here because of the mother I met in Green Bay, Wisconsin, who gave me this bracelet that I'm wearing," Obama said then. "Inscribed on it is the name of her son Ryan. Next to his name it says...'All gave some but he gave all.' We are here because it is time to ask ourselves as a nation if we are serving Ryan and his compatriots and all our young brave men and women as well as they are serving us. They need us to end this war and bring them home and give them the care and the benefits that they deserve."

Ryan Jopek was 20, a member of the Wisconsin National Guard like his father. He deployed to Iraq in 2005, was killed there in 2006.

In February 2008, Ryan's mother Tracy and his sister Jessica traveled to Green Bay and waited in the cold for 45 minutes to give Obama her son's bracelet. A campaign staffer arranged it so they could meet him.

"I didn't get to say what I wanted to say. I just cried," Tracy Jopek told the newspaper. "It wasn't for anything but for him to know this is real, something he needed to know. . . I do believe (the war) needs to end, but I believe it needs to be done very carefully and very thoughtfully."

She said she was honored by Obama mentioning her son in his speech.

"I couldn't believe it. It was such an honor, such an honor," she said. "To know that he does know his name. It means a lot."

**

But a month later, Ryan's father Brian -- who is no longer married to Tracy -- told Wisconsin Public Radio that his ex-wife had misgivings about Obama wearing the bracelet and mentioning their son on the campaign trail. It seems as though just as Tracy Jopek supports Obama and wants to end the war, Brian Jopek has a different take on what should happen in Iraq and may be more inclined to support McCain.

(You can listen to Brian Jopek about 10 minutes into THIS CLIP.)

After pointing out that he and Tracy are not married anymore, Brian says that "from what I understood from email exchanges with Tracy….she wanted to put a name, she wanted Sen. Obama to know Ryan's name...She wasn't looking to turn it into a big media event...She just wanted it to be something between Barack Obama and herself."

Brian Jopek went on to say that "because of some of the negative feedback she’s gotten on the Internet, you know Internet blogs, you know people accusing her of… or accusing Obama of trying to get votes doing it… and that sort of thing, she has turned down any subsequent interviews with the media because she just didn’t, she just didn't want it to get turned into something that it wasn’t. She had told me that in an email that she had asked, actually asked Mr. Obama to not wear the bracelet anymore at any of his public appearances."

In an interview with the Associated Press today
, Brian's ex-wife confirmed today that she had asked the Obama campaign to ask the candidate to stop mentioning her son on the stump.

But -- and here's where it gets complicated -- according to the AP story, Tracy Jopek also said she was "ecstatic" that Obama mentioned her son's hero bracelet during Friday's debate. That's because he was responding to McCain citing a different griveing mother's hero bracelet as a way to back his political views of the war in Iraq and citing the bracelet she'd given Obama was a good and appropriate way to remind people there are different views on this issue.

-- jpt
 
He clearly didn't have an answer for two little tricks McCain pulled out of his bag.....


YOU JUST DON'T GET IT.


He said that numerous times and it was a poor mans version of what Reagan did to Carter with his famous "there you go again".

Obama needs a pithy response up his sleeve for the next time McCain trys that.



The other thing was when McCain pulled out the bracelet gag. Sure, Barack had one too, and he was damn lucky he did....but it still made him look stupid.

Yeah, I think where Obama also scored points was when he said "I wish John McCain and George Bush were right". That is kind of in line with McCain's "I would rather lose an election than lose a war".
 
If I were McCain, I'd start calling Obama "The Junior Senator from Illinois" from now on.
 
CBS Insta Poll shows Barack Obama won 39% to John McCain's 25% with 36% saying the debate was a draw.

Insider Advantage reports of those polled Obama won 42% to McCain's 41% with Undecided 17%

CNN reports voter opinions that Obama "did better" 51%, McCain "did better" 38%

The CNN poll showed men were evenly split, but women gave Obama higher marks 59% to 41% for McCain.

Wow! The same CBS that ran faked ANG documents by Dan Rather/Mary Mapes in order to try and sway the electorate in the 2004 election.

There is a reaons "journalists" have about that same respect as used-car salesmen in the Pew Polls, and at least used-car salesmen are trying to pretend that they are selling you something that has already been refected.
 
Forget the polls, did anyone who watched that debate think McCain is for the middle class?

I was persuaded that McCain will fight to cut gov't spending and also sort of buy into the marverick idea, but McCain is big business and trickle down economics (which might not be a bad thing depending on your beliefs).

Obama is for bolstering the middle class through taxing the wealthy (or who he believes is wealthy, above 250) and cutting out business loopholes.

Polls will change weekly. I think the polls might even reflect a growing dissatisfaction with the Palin pick (about time). I do believe the majority of the polls that Obama won slightly but neither canidate shot themselves in the foot. But it isn't about who won, it's about the type of gov't you want . . . and there is a clear difference here.
 

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