Thoughts on rebuilding

[Denny Crane]

As a Bulls fan, I watched my team take 13 years to rebuild itself as a contender. I thought I'd share my observations about what it took to turn things around.

First of all, the Bulls management was incredibly unpopular after blowing up the defending 3-time championship team. Jordan and Pippen were icons and especially Pippen (and Ho Grant before him) felt mistreated by management. The plan was to use cap space to lure a teen age TMac and others to the team. It didn't turn out that way.

Chicago was never a destination of choice among star players. It's only a recent thing that a Carlos Boozer would sign with the team as a FA. Thank you Derek Rose.

The Bulls sold a lot of hype during those 13 years. Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler, twin towers, were going to grow up and dominate the league! Kirk Hinrich is the 2nd coming. Air Gordon. And so on. They continued to mistreat players, though. They traded for Tim Thomas and wouldn't even let him travel with the team or cut him so he could join another team (he played a few more seasons after his contract expired).

Even with a number of #2 picks and other low numbered lotto picks, the Bulls couldn't put together a real contender. They drafted the likes of Curry, Chandler, Jay Williams, Tyrus Thomas (traded LMA for him, the idiots), and so on. Even so, they did make some outstanding picks in Deng, Gordon, Noah, Taj Gibson.

The thing is, you have to REALLY strike it rich with a draft pick to become a real contender. Derek Rose is what Bulls fans call "the unicorn." He's one of a kind, nobody's seen anything like him before, etc.

If the Blazers were to blow things up and attempt to rebuild from near scratch, I don't think they'd take 13 years, but they wouldn't be contenders for several years.

You're going to live with big contracts for players like Tim Thomas. You're going to need to find that unicorn and have a solid core of young guys with some experience to go with him.

The model is OKC. Kevin Durant is a unicorn. He's in his 5th season. They're really just now becoming a true contender.

What will kill a team is mediocrity. 40-50 win seasons, mid-1st round draft picks to replenish talent, taking on big contracts of guys like Wallace who've seen their best days, etc.

Another model is the Celtics. They were true contenders, but already had a unicorn in Pierce. They were able to trade for Allen and Garnett and turn things around in a season. I'm not seeing this kind of possibility for the Blazers - LMA is a really really good player, but Pierce was arguably the best player in the league, period, for a few seasons.

 

[Mediocre Man]

It certainly takes magic to become a contender. Portland went through this already, and had Roy stayed injury free and either Oden stayed healthy or we drafted Durant, Portland is the best team in the west period. What Portland is stuck in right now is mediocrity, and like you said, that is a killer. It's not an easy fix at all, any way you look at it. I mean Portland was a honk away from picking Durant, and 1 number on the ping pong balls from selecting Rose. But if your team isn't a destination for the young superstar athlete, is there another way to do it?

 

[jlprk]

The thing is, you have to REALLY strike it rich with a draft pick to become a real contender.

I'd noticed that you were only talking about getting players through the draft, not trades or signing FAs. If you have a trader like Bob Whitsitt, your statement isn't right.

 

[Denny Crane]

This is the new normal. The new CBA. Things have been headed this way for a decade.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Sometime that magic can work the other way too. As MM mentioned we were/are a healthy Oden and Roy away being a consistent contender. Sometimes the magic is temperary (Roy) and sometimes is permanent (Rose).

 

[Mediocre Man]

Sometime that magic can work the other way too. As MM mentioned we were/are a healthy Oden and Roy away being a consistent contender. Sometimes the magic is temperary (Roy) and sometimes is permanent (Rose).

Yep. You have to take that gamble though. I am still waiting for someone to tell me another way to do it for a team like Portland

 

[Denny Crane]

Sometime that magic can work the other way too. As MM mentioned we were/are a healthy Oden and Roy away being a consistent contender. Sometimes the magic is temperary (Roy) and sometimes is permanent (Rose).

I don't disagree, but that's two really big holes in the lineup and the guys replacing them should be your bench/depth.

I like Wes Matthews as a starting SG. Alongside Deron Williams, though.

 

[illmatic99]

The biggest hurdle against the Blazers rebuilding is Paul Allen. I don't think he'd be very interested in completely breaking down the team to start over. Not because of his health or money or anything, but because he has seen Whitsitt rebuild on the fly before and nearly get to a title between 98-01

That said, it's not as easy to build such a team with this CBA in place.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I don't disagree, but that's two really big holes in the lineup and the guys replacing them should be your bench/depth.

I like Wes Matthews as a starting SG. Alongside Deron Williams, though.

So did Utah

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'd noticed that you were only talking about getting players through the draft, not trades or signing FAs. If you have a trader like Bob Whitsitt, your statement isn't right.

Whitsitt would be fucking screwed using his model in this new CBA.

For better or worse the NBA has moved into an era where more weight is placed on finding guys who can produce on cheap contracts (better for the league as a whole IMO) and that means one thing: hitting in the draft and using free agency to find role-players ... if you aren't the Miami Heat, New York Knicks or Los Angeles Lakers.

 

[illmatic99]

If that Gerald for 4 picks trade comes up again, I would do it. It would not only help us for free agency this summer, but also open up time for Nic now. Annnnd, it would keep Dwight from going to LA.

It's the ideal trade. Doubt PA would okay it, though. He seems hellbent on getting to the playoffs even if it isn't really good for the team.

 

[Nikolokolus]

If that Gerald for 4 picks trade comes up again, I would do it. It would not only help us for free agency this summer, but also open up time for Nic now. Annnnd, it would keep Dwight from going to LA.

It's the ideal trade. Doubt PA would okay it, though. He seems hellbent on getting to the playoffs even if it isn't really good for the team.

On the flipside, if the Blazers do go into a "rebuild" maybe Allen will sell the team? If he's not going to be a big spender in the new CBA what other advantages does he have to leverage over other teams? Maybe this will be for the best? (assuming a group of investors from Vegas don't buy the team)

 

[KingSpeed]

I don't care about becoming a "contender." I want to win a title and the Bulls have won as many titles as us in the last 13 years. Same with Thunder/Sonics. Don't call it a working strategy until it works. The fact of the matter is that not ONE top three lottery pick in the last 13 years has led the team that drafted him to a championship (except for Darko.)

 

[magnifier661]

I don't care about becoming a "contender." I want to win a title and the Bulls have won as many titles as us in the last 13 years. Same with Thunder/Sonics. Don't call it a working strategy until it works. The fact of the matter is that not ONE top three lottery pick in the last 13 years has led the team that drafted him to a championship (except for Darko.)

And Darko didn't lead shit. I don't think he even had any significant minutes when the Piston's won.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't care about becoming a "contender." I want to win a title and the Bulls have won as many titles as us in the last 13 years. Same with Thunder/Sonics. Don't call it a working strategy until it works. The fact of the matter is that not ONE top three lottery pick in the last 13 years has led the team that drafted him to a championship (except for Darko.)

Well that should be encouraging, since nobody is actually suggesting that the Blazers must get a top 3 pick to get back into the mix ... but they do probably need to get somewhere in the top 10.

 

[KingSpeed]

And Darko didn't lead shit. I don't think he even had any significant minutes when the Piston's won.

He played garbage minutes in the Finals. Thanks to the Lakers sucking, that was a nice amount of PT for Darko. And no, he didn't lead anything.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I don't care about becoming a "contender." I want to win a title and the Bulls have won as many titles as us in the last 13 years. Same with Thunder/Sonics. Don't call it a working strategy until it works. The fact of the matter is that not ONE top three lottery pick in the last 13 years has led the team that drafted him to a championship (except for Darko.)

 

[KingSpeed]

Well that should be encouraging, since nobody is actually suggesting that the Blazers must get a top 3 pick to get back into the mix ... but they do probably need to get somewhere in the top 10.

Good point but my point is that it hasn't been happening through the draft. It's been happening through trades and free agent signings. Not drafting a young guy and riding him to the promised land, with the exception of Wade who won when Shaq was brought over. And there you go, Shaq's another guy who didn't lead the team who drafted him to a title.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Well that should be encouraging, since nobody is actually suggesting that the Blazers must get a top 3 pick to get back into the mix ... but they do probably need to get somewhere in the top 10.

And still will need to have some luck when it comes to drafting the right guy. But I think it's important to have the best chance of drafting that right guy

 

[Mediocre Man]

I don't care about becoming a "contender." I want to win a title and the Bulls have won as many titles as us in the last 13 years. Same with Thunder/Sonics. Don't call it a working strategy until it works. The fact of the matter is that not ONE top three lottery pick in the last 13 years has led the team that drafted him to a championship (except for Darko.)

The Spurs? Tim Duncan

Now lets look prior to 13 years....Pretty much every single NBA champion was led by a top 3 pick

 

[KingSpeed]

Why don't we trade for someone else's top pick? That is how it's done. Would Washington take Batum, Felton, and Matthews for John Wall?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Good point but my point is that it hasn't been happening through the draft. It's been happening through trades and free agent signings. Not drafting a young guy and riding him to the promised land, with the exception of Wade who won when Shaq was brought over. And there you go, Shaq's another guy who didn't lead the team who drafted him to a title.

Led them to the finals though

 

[KingSpeed]

The Spurs? Tim Duncan

Now lets look prior to 13 years....Pretty much every single NBA champion was led by a top 3 pick

Duncan was drafted in 1997. Ever since then, there have been 42 lottery picks and none of them won a title for the team that drafted him but Darko.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Why don't we trade for someone else's top pick? That is how it's done. Would Washington take Batum, Felton, and Matthews for John Wall?

No, no they wouldn't

 

[KingSpeed]

Led them to the finals though

The Finals ain't enough for me. I want a title. And usually, that means trading for another team's stud.

 

[KingSpeed]

No, no they wouldn't

Can we add picks and cash?

 

[Mediocre Man]

The Finals ain't enough for me. I want a title. And usually, that means trading for another team's stud.

How's that working out for the Knicks?


Most teams that trade for or sign FA studs are markets that those players want to go to.

 

[B-Roy]

Can we add picks and cash?

Well we can't offer our first because we sent a 2013 pick to Charlotte.

And even if we could, the answer would still be no.

 

[Nikolokolus]

And still will need to have some luck when it comes to drafting the right guy. But I think it's important to have the best chance of drafting that right guy

Oh luck is absolutely important for sure ... I just think all this talk that teams that are winning championships without drafting their guys is just baseless. The trouble is that there's been only a handful of teams actually winning it over the past 15 years or so (well forever actually) and the list you come up with goes like this:
Lakers: (drafted Kobe -- sorta)
Spurs: (drafted Duncan, Parker, Ginobli)
Mavs: (drafted Dirk Diggler)
Miami: (drafted Wade)
Bulls: (drafted Jordan and Pippen)
Rockets: (drafted Hakeem)
Celtics: (drafted Pierce)

The common thread? Every team that's won (minus the Pistons) needed to draft a superstar caliber player (or two) before they could surround them with the right mix of trades and role-players to compete. The moral of the story is that you must find "that guy" in the draft -- doing it through trades and free agency without having "that guy" first just doesn't happen.

 

[KingSpeed]

Mavs didn't draft Dirk. Bulls didn't draft Pippen. But what about the 41 out of 42 players from 98 to now who didn't win anything?? The lottery didn't produce a single title for the winning team.