Thread Recap: 2012 Draft class (part 1, pre-lottery)

[BrianFromWA]

Hey guys, I was starting a project of doing some thread recaps of Top XX Threads in RC2 History. Based of some of the stuff in the Around the NBA thread today, I took a look at the first part of the 6800+ posts in the 2012 draft lead-up thread. I hope it's kind of fun to look at, but it'll be a tl;dr, probably, and make some guys look silly and some guys look like geniuses. I went in not having a bias, but with the intention of seeing if it would be worth it to pitch a crowdsourced draft with some S2 guys (even if for fun) with some BlazerBrass like SAC did this year:

http://cowbellkingdom.com/how-the-sacramento-kings-crowdsourced-the-2014-nba-draft/

http://grantland.com/features/sacramento-kings-2014-nba-draft-crowdsourcing/

I'll start with some background/rankings and then go into player-specific quotes. Most everything are your voices.

Tell me if you think it's a decent idea, or if you couldn't care less. I think it's better than a straight bump, edited a bit so you don't have to slog through the ugly details unless you want to. Or, we could ditch this. No sweat.

 

[Strenuus]

i love it.

 

[BrianFromWA]

First Set of Comparison Mocks:

My order outside the top 3 guys:

1. Thomas Robinson
2. Austin Rivers
3. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
4. Bradley Beal
5. Jeremy Lamb
6. Damian Lillard (He's been moving up to almost top 10)

IMO Davis, MKG, and Robinson are the clear cut top 3, then you've got a tier with Drummond, Beal, Barnes, Sullinger, and after that its difficult to differentiate talent much.

Boise Blazer was also on point, though maybe he didn’t foresee it.

What sucks is this is the kind of draft that a bunch of teams are going to "miss" on a bunch of players. And I have a bad feeling that there will be some PG's in this draft that we pass on that will be good. Especially considering our track record for drafting PG's its going to be even more frustrating to see that happen in this draft. The draft is always a crapshoot but this year will be that much more interesting. On flipside if the draft is as deep as some think there are going to be a few players that drop far in this draft that might be second round steals. Its amazing how much a great PG draft could change this team.

And RoyToy.

The prospects that will be available with the #4 pick and on couldn't be any more unimpressive to me

Maybe we should get UkraineFan in on the crowdsourcing draft:

Our deal today motivated me to look at the prospects. Of the bigs, the only one who seems to have great physical tools and energy is Thomas Robinson but he is projected at #3 so forget that. To me, Henson, who is projected at #9 might be a good choice; already great defensively and as a rebounder and might still have the potential offensively.
Shooting guards, well not sure why Beal is rated so high, he's not shooting so well, especially from three point. Lamb seems weak and not intense enough.
Actually my two favorites should be available, Henson and Damian Lillard but if we could luck out and get #4 with the NJ pick, I would sure try to trade up for Robinson.
I'm not interested in Sullinger or Zeller for lack of upside and Drummond and either of the Jones' for lack of intensity.

First thoughts on mock post-trade:

My ideal draft: Robinson and Beal.

if we somehow get lamb and robinson i will fucking piss myself with giddy joy

A Rivers and Robinson draft would make me a very happy man. To me Rivers moves and has the clutch gene like a certain all-star that played for Portland and Robinson is just a guy who goes 110% all game and would be a great addition.

Is a guard we can take at #11 better then Elliot Williams? I know we are trying to acquire as much talent as possible, but just curious.

Lots of people were on a Drummond/Marshall tip in mid-April: Fez, PtldPlatypus, Mediocre Man, NWDJ, Reep

Rhal was looking for Marshall/Lamb. Fez at Marshall/Henson.

AmirIcon: Drummond/Lamb.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Anthony Davis:
Some weren’t as high on Davis:

My only deal with Davis is that he's so weak. The guy will be in Kevin Durant territory in the bench press, but he doesn't have the sweet jumper that Durant does to get away with it. My dream pick would be Thomas Robinson.

…and then the double-down.

I want Robinson and Rivers. I'd settle for Robinson and Leonard.

And...

If Robinson is a monster in the tournament and leads Kansas to the Final Four he might got #1. I don't think Anthony Davis is a can't miss #1 like most people do.

Andre Drummond:

Originally Posted by RoyToy Would this organization have the balls to draft C Andre Drummond?
If Davis is off the table if we don't we deserve a kick in the nuts.

By mid-May, Drummond was still hoped for at #6, but multiple people (MM, Blazinggiants, ) didn’t think he’d be there.

The other piece was the “Robinson or Drummond” sub-discussion:

Those taking Robinson over Drummond on May 29: MickZagger, HCP, SecretAgentMan (“no project big men, please”),

Meyers Leonard

Im watching Meyers Leonard right now against Michigan. Kid is going to be a good one. The more I watch, the more I want him in a Blazer uni.

Meyers Leonard
-Huge upside and starting to put it together. Good touch offensively and nice potential on defense. Can pass really well and seems like he could operate in the high post like Camby (which we need). COTF?

I say no lottery picks on white centers

Damian Lillard:

Interesting note about Lillard: I asked a GM if Damian Lillard will go lottery. "He should but no one will have the balls to take a guy who played at Weber State that high" https://twitter.com/#!/DraftExpress

BlazerProphet wasn’t on board, yet.

It has to be a concern. Look at Babbitt. He dominated smaller, weaker players in a crappy league. It's becomes so difficult to evaluate a player who plays in a small weak conference with incredibly weak players. Sure, they can dominate there, but the jump to the NBA is much more than from a player in a major conference.

I like Lillard, but think he should focus on being a PG.

I really hope we draft Lillard with our late lottery pick.

Lillard’s been growing on me recently

I like Lillard. But, I just have a feeling he's gonna be a scoring guard like Monta Ellis, Lou Williams type. This team needs a distributor in a desperate way…. Good shooter like Curry. I don't think anyone realized Curry's passing abilities until he got to the league. I'm not sure if Lillard could distribute like Curry.

Damian Lillard with the NJ pick, seriously? No fucking way. If anything I think if we do land that pick we package to move up a few spots (4-ish) to land Beal. Quality > quantity

Ford's mock would be worst case scenario for me. I hate both of those players, and Lillard has already had surgery on one of his feet. No thank you

I'm curious if we really need a pg that can shoot the three. I mean we really needed it when we had Nate as a coach but would someone who can setup everyone else easier like a rondo be just as good now that we don't have Nate as a coach anymore. And maybe surround them with shooters like Batum and perhaps Gordon?

He's (Lillard’s) a tweener. Dominated an inferior conference but struggled against high profile teams.

HCP on April 30 had a momentum-changing question:

Torn between Marshall and Lillard...... Jason Kidd or Monta Ellis?

Marshall and it's not close IMO. Lillard is a decent prospect though.

No contest. Jason Kidd.

Kendall Marshall:

Kendall Marshall has been probably the most impressive player I've watched today. Great performance tonight by a 19 year old in one of the most difficult environments for a road player. 19pts, 10asts, 4rebs.

He's (Marshall’s) the best PG in this draft.

Marshall can't shoot to save his life, so here is a question for you that I was thinking about earlier. Marshall, or the pick we would use to get him and something for Rondo......Another PG who can't shoot

At least (the Injury) is not (Marshall’) knee. Still, he's BY FAR the best PG prospect in this draft.

Is it possible that Marshall is simply a great college PG who isn't athletic enough to be truly successful in the pros, but we are just so point-guard starved here that we are elevating him far above his actual ability?

 

[Strenuus]

yep i love it. repped!

 

[BrianFromWA]

Austin Rivers:

nbadraft.net did a new mock yesterday. Finally put Austin Rivers in the 2012 mock, and has Wroten slipping to 27. If we can get Rivers/Lamb and Wroten, it will be hard to criticize. This draft is sorta hard to mess up because there's so much talent.

Rivers has no real weakness on offense. He can do everything

Austin Rivers is BRoy reincarnated.

Rivers reminds me a bit of Devin Harris, but even less of a playmaker.

I have come to the conclusion that POR has to take Austin Rivers.... There is A LOT of things adding up there to making him a very good pro player...He was only a freshman and he had a heck of a 1st year....
His situation could remind me of Westbrook, who climbed up the boards late in pre-draft process and went to OKC, top 5 pick and has turned out to be a much better pro (fantastic pro) than he was as a college player...I think Rivers could be very similiar...I like him a lot more than Lillard or Marshall....

Thomas Robinson:

I don't think Robinson is at all a clear cut #2--I think MKG and Drummond are just as likely to go at that spot. Beal's an interesting case, IMO. I don't think he has a shot to go #2, but I won't be surprised if he goes ahead of one of the three guys who might.

don't get it....Some of you guys are obsessed with PG in this draft, when what this team really (desperately) needs is at minimum a 2nd (or some would say 1st) option to Aldridge, with the hope that Batum (resigned) can be that #3 guy....Kendall Marshall or Damian Lillard isn't that guy..... Rivers, Beal, Lamb or Barnes....One of those guys....Now which one is most likely to develop into that go-to #2 (possibly #1) guy? My Answer? Rivers

Jared Sullinger:

RunBJM, however, probably shouldn’t be on the Crowdsourcing team.

Dude's really skilled and you look at the success of guys like Kevin Love, Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Millsap, etc. Sullinger just turned 20 and hes way ahead as far as offensive skillset than these guys were at his age.
He'll probably be a similar 20/10 with crap defense type PF, but still a valuable player worthy of a top 5 pick. Davis and Robinson are above him IMO, but if I was picking 3rd its a toss up between Sullinger and MKG.

Sullinger looks like a poor mans Jamal McGloire!

Tony Wroten:

MickZagger shared my Wroten lust.

I'm watching the Pac-12 tourney right now and Tony Wroten is as athletic of a PG as you'll find. I'd gamble on him. He could be real good.

WTF?s

My Zags just signed a 7 footer from Poland named Przemysław Karnowski. He's got soft touch and great passing abilities for his size and he's just getting better. Draftexpress already has him listed in their 2013 mock draft. I'm excited and felt like posting that here for some reason.

I have been all about McAdoo

I really like Tu Holloway of Xavier.

He has some work to do. But, McAdoo is going to be solid player.

And of course, on May Day Mags makes a “Full Mags” appearance:

Could you imagine if you are able to use one of the picks + matthews to get Igs on draft night. Then on July 1st, you offer D Will max? Then you can resign hickson and Batum.
D Will, Batum, Igs, Aldridge and Hickson is pretty sexy! D Will would look at that possible line-up; which should be better than any other team also able to offer max.

Lamb > Beal

Perry Jones has ELITE level talent...Elite level NBA talent....So the question is his motor....and the thing I look at is that there isn't any "red flags" regarding his lack of motor...ie work ethic, bball IQ, off court issues, hoops family, attitude etc....

And the final WTF?: Larry Miller (portending what would happen later with Kahn, perhaps) showed he didn’t quite know how draft rules worked:

Hopefully New Jersey gets the fourth pick and then we'll get to have two good first round picks that we'll have a lot of options to do things with.

Guh.

 

[Strenuus]

oh god mags. hahaha.

 

[BBert]

To be clear, I was choosing Jason Kidd over Monta Ellis. Looking back I see that may not have been the intent of the question. (Was Marshall supposed to be Kidd? LOL I saw Kidd in college. He was dominant.) I didn't want Marshall and was fully on the Lillard and Leonard bandwagon with the sixth and 11th picks.

 

[magnifier661]

You bastard!!!!!! Deron Williams was sèxy!

And remember I don't do draft you asshole! I never pay attention to college. It's all NBA for me

 

[PDXFonz]

You bastard!!!!!! Deron Williams was sèxy!

And remember I don't do draft you asshole! I never pay attention to college. It's all NBA for me

I tried to clean my iPad screen you jackass.

 

[BBert]

You bastard!!!!!! Deron Williams was sèxy!

And remember I don't do draft you asshole! I never pay attention to college. It's all NBA for me

I wouldn't mind Deron coming off our bench. IF he could mesh personality wise with our Blazers family. And that's a big question mark.

 

[magnifier661]

I tried to clean my iPad screen you jackass.

Lol

 

[B-Roy]

Jared Sullinger

Hey, Sully's actually a pretty good player right now! 17/10 per 36 and a 20.7 PER. That ain't bad at all.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Hey, Sully's actually a pretty good player right now! 17/10 per 36 and a 20.7 PER. That ain't bad at all.

nm.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Its embarrassing, but the highest paid smartest bball nerds in the world were all about Thomas Robinson, for example. Sometimes it just doesn't translate to the NBA game. I think there is a healthy dose of groupthink as well, especially among most fans who are casual draft nerds who just go on other professional "draft expert" website evaluations for the most part. I generally watch zero Webber State games for example. So its highlights and scouting videos.

I think it would be fun to find out who was pimping players who were afterthoughts, and ended up being players (Ty Lawson, Monta, etc). That might be a more interesting exercise.

 

[BrianFromWA]

in the second half there will be more of that. Up until the lottery there weren't a ton of stuff out there. For instance, the next page has Zags starting to pimp Lillard after a Weber State Highlight Reel.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

And remember I don't do draft you asshole! I never pay attention to college. It's all NBA for me

must draft Alex Len!

 

[magnifier661]

must draft Alex Len!

See I told you I suck at college evaluations!

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

The one draft I fudged.

Btw.....

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I kinda wish Len and nards were battling for the 12th man spot. Battle to the death.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

See I told you I suck at college evaluations!

Len is a fine young big, no need for that. Wasn't worth trading up for though

 

[handiman]

I don't know which thread it was in, perhaps several, but I was pretty adamant that Lillard was the 2nd best player in the draft and that Drummond would be a starter from the get go, not the under-motiviated bust many predicted. It always struck me as odd that he was so physically similar to Oden yet pretty much an afterthought as a prospect. I think I also questioned what people saw in TRob... Ditto for MKG (you don't look for defensive hustle players in the lottery).

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Its embarrassing, but the highest paid smartest bball nerds in the world were all about Thomas Robinson, for example. Sometimes it just doesn't translate to the NBA game. I think there is a healthy dose of groupthink as well, especially among most fans who are casual draft nerds who just go on other professional "draft expert" website evaluations for the most part. I generally watch zero Webber State games for example. So its highlights and scouting videos.

I think it would be fun to find out who was pimping players who were afterthoughts, and ended up being players (Ty Lawson, Monta, etc). That might be a more interesting exercise.

I don't think drafting is all that hard. People just fall in love with college energy guys (we're all guilty of it too), of course guys like T-Rob/MKG looked unstoppable because they're too physical for the average college player. Still those type of players are steals in the late 1st and early 2nd.

Really there is a formula to making a good pick in the lottery, you have to look at shooting (from all areas on the floor), body (health, size, etc.), mindset (confidence is huge, along with team first ideals and killer drive/work ethic), defensive potential and ultimately does he fit your teams need. If he checks out for at least 4 of those 5, draft him.

 

[Rhal]

My god I was drinking the Marshal at 11 koolaid. I thought with weapons around him he would be something special kinda like rondo.
I tried reading through that way to long to fully do it but I think I was on board with Marshal/Lamb at 11 and trading the 6 until a week before draft then I wanted Robinson BAD at #6. Was so PISSED draft night when Sac took him at 5.

I do remember the Blaze05 meltdown after we drafted Lillard and my it is hands down one of the funniest moments on S2.

 

[H.C.]

On draft night When I saw barnes available at 6 I was super upset when the Blazers drafted Lillard.
I just thought he had less upside than barnes.
Also with barnes could have let Batum walk and make a play for goran dragic.
But obviously the right decision was made. Goodjob Blazers.

Boy were certain people who never think they're wrong/never willing to admit it.. Were completely off on this draft class.
good laughs.

 

[illmatic99]

smh @ my Austin Rivers love. He might have been the worst player to get mins in the entire league his rookie year.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Boise Blazer was also on point, though maybe he didn’t foresee it.

I wasnt sure at first but the closer we got to the draft the more I wanted Lillard. I was pretty confident that a good player would drop. I wasnt sure if that was going to be Drummond or Lillard.

 

[magnifier661]

I seem to remember wanting Lillard and Drummond on draft day.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

The only players I remember wanting on draft days were Kenneth Faried and Rudy Gobert.

 

[RoyToy]

I wrote Lillard off early and didn't even do research on him

About a month or so before the draft I started doing some digging, and by draft night he was the #1 guy I wanted that the Blazers could realistically draft