OT Three Hotels Approaching Foreclosure in the Heart of Portland Offer a Warning to City Leaders

[Chris Craig]

Here's the perfect place for the house less.

View attachment 49249

Lush banks of the Willamette...that's funny.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Its basically the same thing i said should be done we debated about. But instead of prison style facilities i said use the prisons we have and bring in trained people. So whats the difference between this and my idea that you shot down? Would not this also require many more trained people we don't have?

Because in this, I suggested offering people free rent first. In our discussion I said I'm fine with arresting people who break the law or who refuse housing and choose to live on the street instead.

Which is what I proposed here. Give them an option of no strings attached housing first.

Then I'm fine with it.

 

[Chris Craig]

Here is what we witnessed this week. Two homeless guys got in a fight near my dad's condo. One guy came back later with gasoline and torched the other guys tent. Massive fireball scorched the trees all around it and burned out the car next to it. The camp being torched had two propane tanks that luckily did not blow up. I also had a screamer fixate on me on the max but she turned out to be harmless, still unsettling though. If you think you are just a witness to downtown Portland activities, then you don't spend much time downtown.

I used to be homeless. I get it.

 

[Chris Craig]

Yeah, let's put homeless people in prison.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Yeah, let's put homeless people in prison.

Only if they refuse housing and break law. People who are deemed a threat should go to more like halfway houses. Their monthly rent voucher can go toward this.

And the metro area governments should be actively scooping up rentals for the homeless and retrofitting empty buildings into housing.

We have plenty of money to do this now. It's time to get it done.

 

[Voodoo]

Great responses, and I agree that we need to do something beyond allowing them to remain on the street. It is dangerous, inhumane, bad for the city, and bad for the economy. I think there needs to be a multi-pronged approach to this problem, there's a multiple things that need to be addressed. First is getting homeless off the streets and the goal should be to get these folks into being functional members of society to start paying taxes again, hopefully if done correctly they will be productive enough to recoup the investment we put into them and more. Not that anyone asked, but here are my thoughts on the matter.

Homeless problem:

1. Stop allowing/permitting tents on the streets, this has proven to be very bad policy.
2. Provide housing outside of downtown.
3. Definitely increase more social outreach social workers, I think this has proven to be pretty effective and a good first step.
   
4. Provide counseling services in the area we start centralizing these folks with the intent of helping people get back on their feet to start paying taxes again.
   
5. Increase policing, we need more cops especially in drug enforcement.
6. Clean the city up and make people want to move into town again.
7. Spend some money bringing cool events into town and show off how clean the city is and make it more appealing.
8. On a national level the Federal government needs to address the inflow of fentanyl by putting pressure on China to actually police the production of it. I am not sure if this is something the Chinese government is doing intentionally, but for students of history this sure seems like the exact thing that happened in China hundreds of years ago with the Opium Wars. But instead now China is feeding an addiction in the USA instead of the other way around, the parallels are hard to ignore.

Affordable housing - this is a large part of the problem too as housing has become insanely expensive, pretty much everywhere:

1. Have an exponentially increasing property tax after your first home, this needs to be state if not nation wide. Property tax should be multiplied by the number of houses you own, so first house is whatever the normal rate of the property taxes should be multiplied by your quantity of houses (P*1), second house is P*2, third house is P*3, etc. There are ways of getting around this, but it would be a pain in the ass, and for the most part this would dramatically reduce the quantity of houses being consumed by fewer ultra wealthy folks that could otherwise be dispersed across the larger population. IE provide more supply into the market.
2. Fix zoning laws, for example reduce the amount of industrial zoning that is still setup within the city. Why is NW Portland still primarily zoned for industrial at this point? Again provide more supply.
3. Reduce the regulatory burdens for building new homes and getting permits, cut the red tape! It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars for zoning permits and other regulatory crap these days just to build a house, for apartment complexes and the like it costs well into the millions. This prices a lot of developers out of the market which means, again, less supply. Fix this issue and it helps create more supply.

I absolutely hate the idea of the government subsidizing housing, it costs tax payers tons of money and then becomes a lottery for whoever is magically selected for the units, see NYC for why this is a very dumb idea. The problem is a lack of supply, you don't fix a lack of supply by making things arbitrarily cheaper for a very very small quantity of people. Reduce the demand and increase the supply, and the affordable housing problem gets fixed.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Because in this, I suggested offering people free rent first. In our discussion I said I'm fine with arresting people who break the law or who refuse housing and choose to live on the street instead.

Which is what I proposed here. Give them an option of no strings attached housing first.

Then I'm fine with it.

Ahh gotcha.

 

[Hoopguru]

Personally, with the amount of mentally handicapped homeless and addicts, I would think new medical facilities/Camps/whatever you want to call them would be a way to address homeless that need medical help and/or rehab. This gives them assistance a place to live and food to eat. While staying at Fort Stevens Sate Park I thought why cant the State develop parks like this with Cabins and Yurts, modular housing with medical and facilities. Use it for those that want help and are willing to provide some sort of work duty.
We need to separate out the ones that need medical/addiction attention from the others, then address those with housing and food for work.
I went to Harbor Freight yesterday near 82nd & Foster and saw what looked like third world poverty row. And the garbage and filth was incredible, I had a guy approach me as I come out of the store asking for money but was totally out of it. Gave him a couple bucks and left.

 

[Chris Craig]

Only if they refuse housing and break law. People who are deemed a threat should go to more like halfway houses. Their monthly rent voucher can go toward this.

And the metro area governments should be actively scooping up rentals for the homeless and retrofitting empty buildings into housing.

We have plenty of money to do this now. It's time to get it done.

It's a complex issue. I don't know if I agree with you on making homeless illegal. If someone breaks the law as it is, they are breaking the law.

We need more transitional shelters, that help homeless people get on their feet. We need more affordable housing, not more condos. These transitional shelters need to be endowed with centralized resources, to help homeless people find work, to help those who are addicts to get treatment, to help those who are mentally ill get help with getting on medicine and getting stable, to help the many older homeless and disabled homeless who cannot work, get on disability and get vouchers to cover rent they cannot afford.

The transitional shelters need to be inviting not prison like atmospheres. Using old prisons is not a good idea.

I agree the money is there to do it. Part of the problem is no one wants these transitional shelters in their neighborhoods, so there is no where to put them. These homeless people are being dehumanized and treated like a problem rather than like people. This is a people problem that needs a people solution.

I get the sentiment that if we do things to fix homeless, other states will send more of their homeless populations here and exacerbate the problem. For a solution to catch on federally, a city needs to do it successfully to be an example, so other cities will follow suit.

 

[Chris Craig]

Personally, with the amount of mentally handicapped homeless and addicts, I would think new medical facilities/Camps/whatever you want to call them would be a way to address homeless that need medical help and/or rehab. This gives them assistance a place to live and food to eat. While staying at Fort Stevens Sate Park I thought why cant the State develop parks like this with Cabins and Yurts, modular housing with medical and facilities. Use it for those that want help and are willing to provide some sort of work duty.
We need to separate out the ones that need medical/addiction attention from the others, then address those with housing and food for work.
I went to Harbor Freight yesterday near 82nd & Foster and saw what looked like third world poverty row. And the garbage and filth was incredible, I had a guy approach me as I come out of the store asking for money but was totally out of it. Gave him a couple bucks and left.

They have places like dignity village where those who enjoy the homeless lifestyle, live in a park of tiny-houses so they can maintain their sense of community.

The garbage is an issue, but a solvable one.

 

[Hoopguru]

They have places like dignity village where those who enjoy the homeless lifestyle, live in a park of tiny-houses so they can maintain their sense of community.

The garbage is an issue, but a solvable one.

Dont know much about the place do they offer on site medical clinics/ways to help those with addiction/ handicaps?
Is it more of a shanty type party town?
Oregon has lots of land in different areas of the Sate that could be used as State Run Refugee type camps.

 

[Chris Craig]

Dont know much about the place do they offer on site medical clinics/ways to help those with addiction/ handicaps?
Is it more of a shanty type party town?
Oregon has lots of land in different areas of the Sate that could be used as State Run Refugee type camps.

Not that I know of, but is something that could be added.

It's kind of shanty but could be built up a bit with help.

People want to be close to the city for resources, but if you bring the resources to them, that could help with having places for them out of the city.

 

[Voodoo]

Not that I know of, but is something that could be added.

It's kind of shanty but could be built up a bit with help.

People want to be close to the city for resources, but if you bring the resources to them, that could help with having places for them out of the city.

I agree with everything you've written @Chris Craig, we need to bring resources to people, reduce housing costs, and help people transition off the system. We don't need more laws, just more enforcement of laws that already exist, the only thing that needs to change is that sleeping in tents on the sidewalk should not be allowed, and that needs to be enforced. But addendum to that, we also need to provide folks with a place to go when they do get kicked off. I don't necessarily think it should be cops that do this alone, there needs to be a service that gets people off the street and to that transitional housing. And to those that don't want to go, then leave that for them to decide where to go, it's not a crime to be homeless, but it should be a crime to setup camp and shit on the street, it's unhygienic, disgusting, and dangerous for others too.

We need to consider other peoples rights other than just the homeless guy, yeah it sucks he's homeless, but others are being affected too, and those people actually pay taxes and contribute to society so their needs should be placed above said homeless person. Give them resources, give them options, but if they don't want to take it, then give them the boot out of town, period. Can lead a horse to water, that kind of thing.

 

[Hoopguru]

The Fed had forest camps under Roosevelt, providing shelter, food and pay for labor.
Those guys built Timberline Lodge.

 

[Hoopguru]

Growing up in the 50'6/60's I remember curfew and vagrancy laws.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I agree with everything you've written @Chris Craig, we need to bring resources to people, reduce housing costs, and help people transition off the system. We don't need more laws, just more enforcement of laws that already exist, the only thing that needs to change is that sleeping in tents on the sidewalk should not be allowed, and that needs to be enforced. But addendum to that, we also need to provide folks with a place to go when they do get kicked off. I don't necessarily think it should be cops that do this alone, there needs to be a service that gets people off the street and to that transitional housing. And to those that don't want to go, then leave that for them to decide where to go, it's not a crime to be homeless, but it should be a crime to setup camp and shit on the street, it's unhygienic, disgusting, and dangerous for others too.

We need to consider other peoples rights other than just the homeless guy, yeah it sucks he's homeless, but others are being affected too, and those people actually pay taxes and contribute to society so their needs should be placed above said homeless person. Give them resources, give them options, but if they don't want to take it, then give them the boot out of town, period. Can lead a horse to water, that kind of thing.

Yep, but there must be a warm, secure place to take them to. A place where they are not going to be harassed by anybody.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I went to Harbor Freight yesterday near 82nd & Foster and saw what looked like third world poverty row. And the garbage and filth was incredible, I had a guy approach me as I come out of the store asking for money but was totally out of it. Gave him a couple bucks and left.

IT IS A FUCKING SHIT SHOW IN FRONT OF THAT PLACE!

 

[Voodoo]

IT IS A FUCKING SHIT SHOW IN FRONT OF THAT PLACE!

Probably literally.

 

[Phatguysrule]

It's a complex issue. I don't know if I agree with you on making homeless illegal. If someone breaks the law as it is, they are breaking the law.

We need more transitional shelters, that help homeless people get on their feet. We need more affordable housing, not more condos. These transitional shelters need to be endowed with centralized resources, to help homeless people find work, to help those who are addicts to get treatment, to help those who are mentally ill get help with getting on medicine and getting stable, to help the many older homeless and disabled homeless who cannot work, get on disability and get vouchers to cover rent they cannot afford.

The transitional shelters need to be inviting not prison like atmospheres. Using old prisons is not a good idea.

I agree the money is there to do it. Part of the problem is no one wants these transitional shelters in their neighborhoods, so there is no where to put them. These homeless people are being dehumanized and treated like a problem rather than like people. This is a people problem that needs a people solution.

I get the sentiment that if we do things to fix homeless, other states will send more of their homeless populations here and exacerbate the problem. For a solution to catch on federally, a city needs to do it successfully to be an example, so other cities will follow suit.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think transitional shelters would just happen if there were a guaranteed monthly payment coming from the government. Somebody would just open up their apartment complex to it, because the money would come.

Hell, I'd convert my house into 4 units if I could get $5k per month out of it.

Then the government could send caseworkers a there to help.

There isn't anything anybody could to do prevent it then.

I really don't think the homelessness being "illegal" would be much of a problem either, except for transplants.

People who choose to live outside rather than in their own apartment are likely either troubled and need forced help, or are hiding something and probably should be in jail. Otherwise, a little coaxing will get them off of the street and into a nice new place.

Getting the rest off of the streets will be a huge help to those who want an apartment and will allow us to focus on the others who need more help.

There is MORE than enough money to house everybody (who is here currently) and get them all the help they need.

 

[Chris Craig]

I agree with everything you've written @Chris Craig, we need to bring resources to people, reduce housing costs, and help people transition off the system. We don't need more laws, just more enforcement of laws that already exist, the only thing that needs to change is that sleeping in tents on the sidewalk should not be allowed, and that needs to be enforced. But addendum to that, we also need to provide folks with a place to go when they do get kicked off. I don't necessarily think it should be cops that do this alone, there needs to be a service that gets people off the street and to that transitional housing. And to those that don't want to go, then leave that for them to decide where to go, it's not a crime to be homeless, but it should be a crime to setup camp and shit on the street, it's unhygienic, disgusting, and dangerous for others too.

We need to consider other peoples rights other than just the homeless guy, yeah it sucks he's homeless, but others are being affected too, and those people actually pay taxes and contribute to society so their needs should be placed above said homeless person. Give them resources, give them options, but if they don't want to take it, then give them the boot out of town, period. Can lead a horse to water, that kind of thing.

I agree the tents on the sidewalks need to go. That was let go because of Covid but it's time to end that and get more transitional shelters open.


Part of the issue with homeless people being on the sidewalks is shelters only let homeless people in at night so they congregate near the shelters and around town on sidewalks during the day.

We need transitional shelters that allow them to be inside during the day too.

 

[Chris Craig]

The Fed had forest camps under Roosevelt, providing shelter, food and pay for labor.
Those guys built Timberline Lodge.

Yeah, the ones that can work, get them back working and earning a wage. There is a pride in that they have lost. Get them back on their feet.

 

[Chris Craig]

Yeah, I agree with you. I think transitional shelters would just happen if there were a guaranteed monthly payment coming from the government. Somebody would just open up their apartment complex to it, because the money would come.

Hell, I'd convert my house into 4 units if I could get $5k per month out of it.

Then the government could send caseworkers a there to help.

There isn't anything anybody could to do prevent it then.

I really don't think the homelessness being "illegal" would be much of a problem either, except for transplants.

People who choose to live outside rather than in their own apartment are likely either troubled and need forced help, or are hiding something and probably should be in jail.

Getting the rest off of the streets will be a huge help to those who want an apartment and will allow us to focus on the others who need more help.

There is MORE than enough money to house everybody and get them all the help they need.

The mentally ill people who are homeless can't function and therefore can't really choose one way or the other. They need some of the most help.

There are some who have criminal or other records, and don't feel getting a job or housing is an option because they feel no one will hire or rent to them.

There are those who just enjoy the lifestyle. They don't want to go back to being a slave to the man so to speak. They don't want to pay rent or bills. They don't want to work. They just want to enjoy life.

For people who want to live that lifestyle more places like dignity village would be good. Like you said the government has plenty of property.

One way to fix the downtown issue is to build or turn existing empty buildings (not prisons) into transitional shelters outside of downtown. Move the resources to where these new shelters are. Close the shelters and resources downtown.

But, we need to do alot more on top of that.

 

[donkiez]

I used to be homeless. I get it.

That more than explains your passion on the subject. Thanks for sharing. Its easy to forget that there are real people behind these issues and stories, and everyone deserves a fighting chance.

 

[Voodoo]

I agree the tents on the sidewalks need to go. That was let go because of Covid but it's time to end that and get more transitional shelters open.


Part of the issue with homeless people being on the sidewalks is shelters only let homeless people in at night so they congregate near the shelters and around town on sidewalks during the day.

We need transitional shelters that allow them to be inside during the day too.

Totally agree, it mystifies me that there’s a huge labor shortage, and tons of labor lying listlessly on sidewalks. It’s like the answer is obvious to both, and yet there’s no coordination or political will to make it happen.

 

[barfo]

The old Portland ways are best. Give them liquor till they pass out, drag them through the tunnels, load them on ships, and set sail to Russia. Putin desperately needs conscripts.

barfo

 

[julius]

Totally agree, it mystifies me that there’s a huge labor shortage, and tons of labor lying listlessly on sidewalks. It’s like the answer is obvious to both, and yet there’s no coordination or political will to make it happen.

I would venture a safe bet that the majority of the people who are lying listlessly on the sidewalks are *not* the labor that is needed.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The mentally ill people who are homeless can't function and therefore can't really choose one way or the other. They need some of the most help.

Yes. And this needs to happen ASAP. These poor people are suffering. Get them into a home and get them the help they need.

There are some who have criminal or other records, and don't feel getting a job or housing is an option because they feel no one will hire or rent to them.

Yes, and they'll be better off in an apartment. Get them into a warm, secure home. A monthly rent voucher, food stamps, a social worker helping them to navigate the system and re-establish themselves. We have the money for this. It's cheaper than allowing them to remain homeless.

When they find work they pay 1/3 of their full time salary as rent.

There are those who just enjoy the lifestyle. They don't want to go back to being a slave to the man so to speak. They don't want to pay rent or bills. They don't want to work. They just want to enjoy life.

For people who want to live that lifestyle more places like dignity village would be good. Like you said the government has plenty of property.

Agreed.

One way to fix the downtown issue is to build or turn existing empty buildings (not prisons) into transitional shelters outside of downtown. Move the resources to where these new shelters are. Close the shelters and resources downtown.

But, we need to do alot more on top of that.

Yes, this might work, as long as busses run regularly to and from this location to down town.

Agreed, there is still much more to be done. But these would address most of the problems fairly quickly, and we can ramp up services from there.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Totally agree, it mystifies me that there’s a huge labor shortage, and tons of labor lying listlessly on sidewalks. It’s like the answer is obvious to both, and yet there’s no coordination or political will to make it happen.

There aren't close to enough homeless to address our labor shortage. And that shortage is only going to grow for a while.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Keep in mind the one HUGE key factor in trying to help them.

They must want and accept the help.

It has been my experience that most deny the help and prefer to be destructive to themselves and their surroundings.
Cant help those who don't want to help themselves

 

[bigbailes]

Anyone been to downtown St Louis the last few years? Literal ghost town at night. Huge, beautiful, old buildings, empty, no lights on and broken windows. You could probably buy the building for close to nothing. Prime downtown location. Walk down the Main Street on a Friday night at 7 pm. ALONE for blocks. It was the weirdest feeling, like post apocalyptic out of a movie. No businesses other than the St Louis Cardinals and St Louis Blues. Hope Portland doesn’t get to that point.

Was there this summer and man you are right. First night we were there (Thursday) we went to a cool area not far from DT and grabbed some food, decided we would bar hop our way back to the hotel. Once we got past the first couple blocks of the neighborhood we were in, NOTHING until we got back to the stadium and even they were closing up by 11 on a Thursday. The next night we were out and about, got back to the hotel around 10 and decided to head in another direction to find some food, absolutely nothing open and no one on the streets. Ended up having to get take out from Hooters as that was literally the only food option DT. I didn't even notice much in the way of homelessness or people panhandling. Sounds like they had a horrible case of violence down there and now no one goes down there after dark. Never really felt like we were in danger walking around but aside from going to a Cardinals game (trying to see every MLB stadium), we have ZERO desire to ever go back, feeling like we did pretty much everything we wanted to do in one weekend.