Tick Tock Tick Tock - Rich Cho

[hasoos]

Here is what I would do if I was Rich Cho, and why. It is obvious Roy has built up respect inside the organization. That being said, you don't want to just slap Roy up the side of the head and send him packing, you have to afford him some amount of respect, or you will lose respect from the players in the organization.

Roy wants a shooter next to him. I say give it to him. Go get Mo Williams from the Cleveland Cavaliers. While you are at it, grab either Varejo or JJ Hickson to also shore up the backup PF spot. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

Why do I do this? To eliminate excuses. By eliminating every excuse Roy has, the onus is then on him to perform. If you give him everything he wants and he still doesn't perform, its over. The days of Roy being the franchise player of the team are over and you move on.

 

[RoyToy]

What upsets me is from day 1 we've hardly seen a Roy/Matthews/Batum 1-2-3. Going into the season I think we all thought that was going to be a money combination.

Anytime the starters aren't in though and the other team goes on a 6-0 run McMillan panics. Kind of annoying because he's killing the starters.

 

[hasoos]

With the right coach, there are several pieces here that could help get us to the next level. Aldridge is a really soild role player, Batum is also a nice role player. Matthews is a guy that, depending on what we brought in, could either start or come off the bench as a really nice role guy.

So your idea of building a team is starting with role players? I see your post. I also see a lot of the word "Role Player". You don't build around role players. You use role players to build around talent. Not the other way around. Find the talent. Build around the talent to maximize it. You don't go pick up Martell Webster and then think "Hey, you know this star would really play well with Martell Webster".

I do not have the same confidence you do with the same team, different coach. The same problems will still exist, because they haven't been solved.

 

[Mediocre Man]

So your idea of building a team is starting with role players? I see your post. I also see a lot of the word "Role Player". You don't build around role players. You use role players to build around talent. Not the other way around. Find the talent. Build around the talent to maximize it. You don't go pick up Martell Webster and then think "Hey, you know this star would really play well with Martell Webster".

I do not have the same confidence you do with the same team, different coach. The same problems will still exist, because they haven't been solved.

I agree with you 100%. I was just saying that there are a lot of players on our current team that would do well on championship contending teams. I was not saying we shouldn't move them to try and snag a top level player, or potential player

 

[MickZagger]

thats why you retool instead of rebuild

You always say that, yet you never give ideas.

 

[glazeduck]

I think the key in using Miller, Pryz, Camby, Rudy, etc. is finding the right team and time to move them, and simply take whatever we can from said team(s) to aid our re-build/tool.

Off the top of my head...

I think Miller could be a good backup PG in Boston for one more title chase for them. Avery Bradley + Nate Robinson (for cap reasons) + a 1st would work for me.
Any number of teams would be interested in Camby and Pryz as they're both quality, effective bigs AND expiring contracts... Definitely think we could get good value from both of them.
Rudy would work well on a team that spreads the floor like Orlando. Rudy for Orton, or Rudy + change for Bass would both work.

I'm 100% on the bandwagon of "get what we can for who we can". Build around Wesley, Batum and LaMarcus, and go from there.

 

[oldmangrouch]

The more I think back about Pritchard's time in Portland the more I think it was a failure. He showed he was incompetent at trades outside of the Camby trade and that he was unwilling to trade "his guys".

What he was supposedly good at was drafting. So he took chances on guys with pre-existing injuries (Oden, Roy), fell in love with soft PF's (Aldridge and Frye) and stashed multiple picks overseas (Freeland, Claver, Kopennen) that we could of used on proven college guys (Millsap, Blair).

To make matters worse, he signs a player who is already starting to break down to a max extension. Bangs the fugliest cheerleader on staff, drafts Luke Babbitt, drafts another guy with injured knees (E. Williams), sells his villa style house in Lake Oswego to a new Blazer and gets the fuck out of town ASAP.

Maybe Warkentein was right?

I do know I'm going to let the Cho era breathe a little bit before I start piling on him. Shit, looking at our past GM, I might not judge him until Cho long gone.

Sadly, I must agree. 3 first round picks in 2 years, and not one NBA player to show for it? That is a huge black mark on his legacy.

 

[hasoos]

Sadly, I must agree. 3 first round picks in 2 years, and not one NBA player to show for it? That is a huge black mark on his legacy.

KP was a mixed bag. Some things he did were good, but they were few and far between. I think everybody would have been happy if Paul Milsap had turned into a Blazer, and he did try to go get him. Many of his draft picks were bad, and many on this board were openly skeptical when he passed on certain players during the draft, only to take somebody else. But it isn't all on him. I would remind folks that he had a scouting department and the war room was there for discussion of picks being made. Were all the Blazers brass in the war room? Yep. Were they all supposedly able to speak their mind? Yep. That tells me that pretty much everybody in the room at draft time was responsible, unless they disagreed on the pick. Now here comes the topper. Most of those folks are still here, the only difference is Cho is here instead of KP and Penn. So next year when we go into the draft, the same guys who brought us this lack of talent, will bring their picks to the same group with Cho, and I expect results to probably be the same, unless we hit the jackpot on a lucky pick.

 

[RoyToy]

The team has Wesley Matthews because of KP.

People can hate on Webster for Babbitt+Gomes all they want but the move saved the Blazers about $4M since they declined Gomes' contract and that definitely helped them sign Matthews.

It was basically Webster for Matthews+Babbitt. Damn that KP for acquiring a better player + a young prospect.

 

[MickZagger]

The team has Wesley Matthews because of KP.
People can hate on Webster for Babbitt+Gomes all they want but the move saved the Blazers about $4M since they declined Gomes' contract and that definitely helped them sign Matthews.

It was basically Webster for Matthews+Babbitt. Damn that KP for acquiring a better player + a young prospect.

From what I can recall that signing happened under the watch of Born and Buchanon. I haven't read one iota of info saying that KP was responsible for Matthews.

Do you have any sorta link or are you just trying to save face?

 

[RoyToy]

It wouldn't matter if KP was directly responsible for the signing or not(imo he prob is).

He saved the team $4M that allowed them to "overpay" Matthews. Without that move we don't know if they're as aggressive in their pursuit of Matthews.

The whole thing just looks like a KP move anyways based on the year before with the pursuit of Millsap. KP may have not been in the room when they offered the contract but I would bet he had a lot to do with it.

Webster for Matthews+Babbitt...boo-yah

 

[superfly4201]

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Miller and Pryzbilla, sliding Roy to the point. Start a combination of Matthews/Batum/Rudy at the 2/3. Trade a first rounder for A. Randolph and get a scorer for miller and Pryz to come off the bench (Crawford or other?).

 

[MickZagger]

It wouldn't matter if KP was directly responsible for the signing or not(imo he prob is).

He saved the team $4M that allowed them to "overpay" Matthews. Without that move we don't know if they're as aggressive in their pursuit of Matthews.

The whole thing just looks like a KP move anyways based on the year before with the pursuit of Millsap. KP may have not been in the room when they offered the contract but I would bet he had a lot to do with it.

Webster for Matthews+Babbitt...boo-yah

lol, so now your backtracking.

Face it, KP wasn't this golden boy GM that many think he was. KP was gone after the draft, we signed Matthews mid-July. I haven't read any info that deal had KP's prints on it.

You go from giving credit to him, to admitting your purely speculating.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

From what I can recall that signing happened under the watch of Born and Buchanon. I haven't read one iota of info saying that KP was responsible for Matthews.

Do you have any sorta link or are you just trying to save face?

I did read/hear that Matthews was number one on KP's free agent list, and they were moving forward with that plan, even after he was fired.

 

[RoyToy]

lol, so now your backtracking.

Face it, KP wasn't this golden boy GM that many think he was. KP was gone after the draft, we signed Matthews mid-July. I haven't read any info that deal had KP's prints on it.

You go from giving credit to him, to admitting your purely speculating.

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

 

[MickZagger]

I did read/hear that Matthews was number one on KP's free agent list, and they were moving forward with that plan, even after he was fired.

Do you have a link to that? I'd like to read.

 

[RoyToy]

I did read/hear that Matthews was number one on KP's free agent list, and they were moving forward with that plan, even after he was fired.

His plan that was carried out by his close friends who he hired in Born and Buchanon. It makes too much sense not to believe the move wasn't all KP.

Great trade to save money to add a pretty good player. Great move.

 

[PapaG]

lol, so now your backtracking.

Face it, KP wasn't this golden boy GM that many think he was. KP was gone after the draft, we signed Matthews mid-July. I haven't read any info that deal had KP's prints on it.

You go from giving credit to him, to admitting your purely speculating.

It seems logical to me that part of the Webster trade was to free up money to offer Matthews that front-loaded contract. The latter can't happen without the former already in place. Nobody ever knows for sure who is responsible for any trade, do they? In the Webster/Matthews moves, though, it's my opinion that Webster was traded to make room for Matthews, and the toxic offer was a part of ensuring it would happen. Which means I find it likely that KP/Born/Buchanon were all on the same page, and upper management signed off on it.

 

[MickZagger]

It seems logical to me that part of the Webster trade was to free up money to offer Matthews that front-loaded contract. The latter can't happen without the former already in place. Nobody ever knows for sure who is responsible for any trade, do they? In the Webster/Matthews moves, though, it's my opinion that Webster was traded to make room for Matthews, and the toxic offer was a part of ensuring it would happen.

I remember at the time of the signing it seemed like all the credit (blame at the time) was going to Larry Miller and ultimately Born and Buchanon for 'overpaying'. Now that we look back in hindsight its KP's deal?

Thats not consistent.

 

[RoyToy]

I remember at the time of the signing it seemed like all the credit (blame at the time) was going to Larry Miller and ultimately Born and Buchanon for 'overpaying'. Now that we look back in hindsight its KP's deal?

Thats not consistent.

Larry Miller is no GM

Born and Buchanon worked closely with KP. Little doubt in my mind the idea would start with KP or that the idea was in place well before he was fired. That's what the Webster trade would seem to indicate imo. Clearing money so you can then spend it on someone else.

Makes a whole lot of sense to me.

 

[MickZagger]

Larry Miller is no GM

Born and Buchanon worked closely with KP. Little doubt in my mind the idea would start with KP or that the idea was in place well before he was fired. That's what the Webster trade would seem to indicate imo. Clearing money so you can then spend it on someone else.

Makes a whole lot of sense to me.

Then why were people giving Larry Miller the blame? I remember right after the signing Canzano had Miller on his radio show and he was discussing the signing from a standpoint like he was in charge. At that point in time I think Miller had say in the personnel aspect of the team.

It was a cost cutting move to get Matthews, but it was also an underachieving Webster for a middle of the 1st round pick. About fair value if you ask me.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I don't have a link. Just going off what I remember. Sorry!

 

[Minstrel]

I remember at the time of the signing it seemed like all the credit (blame at the time) was going to Larry Miller and ultimately Born and Buchanon for 'overpaying'. Now that we look back in hindsight its KP's deal?

My recollection is that most people were quite positive on the deal. They were talking about how he started for Sloan and played Kobe tough in the playoffs. Also at the time, I recall people saying that Born and Buchanon were largely continuing the agenda Pritchard had established...which makes perfect sense because that was also the agenda they had been involved with. So it was their agenda too.

 

[MickZagger]

My recollection is that most people were quite positive on the deal. They were talking about how he started for Sloan and played Kobe tough in the playoffs. Also at the time, I recall people saying that Born and Buchanon were largely continuing the agenda Pritchard had established...which makes perfect sense because that was also the agenda they had been involved with. So it was their agenda too.

I think many liked Matthews as a player, but didn't like the deal. Giving KP credit for that move when he wasn't even a part of the organization at that point doesn't make sense.

 

[RoyToy]

I think many liked Matthews as a player, but didn't like the deal. Giving KP credit for that move when he wasn't even a part of the organization at that point doesn't make sense.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Did I miss something?

Matthews was signed with the MLE. They didn't need to clear cap space by trading Webster.

I was no fan of Webster's game, and hardly heart-broken to see him traded. The point is, KP turned a pick in the low teens into a D league player. That is nothing to brag about.

 

[RoyToy]

Did I miss something?

Matthews was signed with the MLE. They didn't need to clear cap space by trading Webster.

I was no fan of Webster's game, and hardly heart-broken to see him traded. The point is, KP turned a pick in the low teens into a D league player. That is nothing to brag about.

It helped them front-load the contract at $9.2M.

 

[PapaG]

It helped them front-load the contract at $9.2M.

What he said. The cap space was needed to front-load the contract.

 

[RR7]

Cap space wasn't needed to front load the contract. We didn't have space this summer.

 

[PapaG]

Cap space wasn't needed to front load the contract. We didn't have space this summer.

My mistake. I was thinking tax threshold, and getting closer to it as more moves are made. Plus, moving Webster cleared room for Matthews. Do you think that the Webster trade was primarily to improve the back-up (and now starting) SF spot? I do. I don't think that the draft day trade is made without a replacement in mind.