Time to start Collins

[blue9]

Or Collins just isn't as good some of us think (hope) and maybe we need to stop making excuses for him.

Even the flashes are few and far between.

Maybe, but it's ENTIRELY too early to give up on him. One and a half seasons - under a shit coach like Stotts - does not write the book on who a player is.

#FireStotts

 

[Scalma]

Collins when he sees 20 or more minutes this season:

14 games
11-3 record

23.8 mpg
8.9 ppg
5.6 rpg
1.0 bpg
.650 TS %
126 ORTG
108 DRTG
+6.7

START HIM

 

[blue9]

Collins when he sees 20 or more minutes this season:

14 games
11-3 record

23.8 mpg
8.9 ppg
5.6 rpg
1.0 bpg
.650 TS %
126 ORTG
108 DRTG
+6.7

START HIM

Butbutbut...Aminu is the best defender to ever play the game!

 

[Scalma]

Small sample size, but check out the most productive lineup involving Collins. Includes Nurk. And if Terry would just consistently trust them as facilitators, the assists would go up as well.

 

[Scalma]

Butbutbut...Aminu is the best defender to ever play the game!

Lol funny you mention that.

According to DBPM, Portland’s best defenders, in order:

1. Nurkic
2. Harkless
3. Turner
4. Collins
5. Aminu

 

[blue9]

Small sample size, but check out the most productive lineup involving Collins. Includes Nurk. And if Terry would just consistently trust them as facilitators, the assists would go up as well.

View attachment 23944

Interestingly, the moment Aminu enters the equation the point differential turns negative...

 

[blue9]

Lol funny you mention that.

According to DBPM, Portland’s best defenders, in order:

1. Nurkic
2. Harkless
3. Turner
4. Collins
5. Aminu

Matches the eye test. Vonleh is also better...

 

[Scalma]

Interestingly, the moment Aminu enters the equation the point differential turns negative...

I just don’t know why Aminu plays over Collins. What does he do that Collins can’t? Better yet, why can’t he play small forward? He’s also a free agent after the season. Shouldn’t it be a bigger priority to develop the lottery pick?

 

[Scalma]

Matches the eye test. Vonleh is also better...

Vonleh would’ve been the perfect compliment to Collins and Nurkic. He got fucked the minute Swanigan was drafted. He was playing well when Aminu was hurt. He also played well with Nurkic. All he needed were minutes. Still pisses me off.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Collins when he sees 20 or more minutes this season:

14 games
11-3 record

23.8 mpg
8.9 ppg
5.6 rpg
1.0 bpg
.650 TS %
126 ORTG
108 DRTG
+6.7

START HIM

Whenever I see stats like this, I always wonder, is it more that he plays better when he plays more, or just that he is given more minutes when he is playing well. I generally assume it's the latter.

 

[blue9]

I just don’t know why Aminu plays over Collins. What does he do that Collins can’t? Better yet, why can’t he play small forward? He’s also a free agent after the season. Shouldn’t it be a bigger priority to develop the lottery pick?

One would think...
But, Terry knows his ass is on the line, and it too dumb to realize that sticking with Aminu is only going to maintain the status quo and ensure his termination.

 

[blue9]

Vonleh would’ve been the perfect compliment to Collins and Nurkic. He got fucked the minute Swanigan was drafted. He was playing well when Aminu was hurt. He also played well with Nurkic. All he needed were minutes. Still pisses me off.

For sure. I hated the Nic trade. But the fact that we paid to get rid of Vonleh when he was CLEARLY our best PF just made the whole thing that much worse.

 

[Scalma]

For sure. I hated the Nic trade. But the fact that we paid to get rid of Vonleh when he was CLEARLY our best PF just made the whole thing that much worse.

Well, he’s a free agent after the season. Right the wrong Neil and cut Bigg...oh wait his contract is guaranteed next season..NEVERMIND LOL!!

 

[blue9]

Well, he’s a free agent after the season.

I can't imagine any player, having played for Stotts and then playing elsewhere, wanting to come back to play under Stotts again. Well, except Dame and CJ.

 

[Labinot41]

am i'm the only one here that thinks Swanigan looks slower and and more fat compared to last year in his 1st Summer League??

 

[Scalma]

am i'm the only one here that thinks Swanigan looks slower and and more fat compared to last year in his 1st Summer League??

No, he’s definitely out of shape, and has been since the start of last season. He looks a little skinnier this season, but still nothing compared to last years summer league. My guess is he got in the best shape he possibly could during the draft process, and then never committed to maintaining it.

 

[James lamphear]

For sure. I hated the Nic trade. But the fact that we paid to get rid of Vonleh when he was CLEARLY our best PF just made the whole thing that much worse.

Yea he went to Knicks and all suddenly he can shoot from the outside. Due to one of there coaches made little adjustment where his release point. Now I am questioning all our coaches not just Stotts. When Olshey came out saying Swanigan was better then vonleh before Swanigan even step on the floor.

 

[illmatic99]

Collins when he sees 20 or more minutes this season:

14 games
11-3 record

23.8 mpg
8.9 ppg
5.6 rpg
1.0 bpg
.650 TS %
126 ORTG
108 DRTG
+6.7

START HIM

9 and 6 is worth all this hype? What about his foul trouble?

 

[wizenheimer]

Small sample size, but check out the most productive lineup involving Collins. Includes Nurk. And if Terry would just consistently trust them as facilitators, the assists would go up as well.

View attachment 23944

I hope this doesn't come across as an attack, and I know you were likely talking about Collins + Nurk more than anything else, but that looks a bit like cherry-picking

you got that from bbref, and what you cut out of the image was minutes played for those lineups; plus, other lineups that call it into question

A. Aminu | S. Curry | D. Lillard | C. McCollum | J. Nurkic - minutes 42:27....points +38.7

A. Aminu | D. Lillard | C. McCollum | J. Nurkic | E. Turner - minutes 179.37....points +20.1

Z. Collins | D. Lillard | C. McCollum | J. Nurkic | E. Turner - minutes 17:53....points +19.8

A. Aminu | M. Harkless | D. Lillard | C. McCollum | J. Nurkic - minutes 276:27....points +8.7

A. Aminu | J. Layman | D. Lillard | C. McCollum | J. Nurkic - minutes 240:07....points +1.2

bottom line is that the regular starting lineup with Aminu has a better points advantage then the one with Zach. The margin is insignificant but the regular starters established that over a realistic sample size; the sample size with Zach is too small to have any value as a gauge

those last two lineups illustrate that the other favorite-around-here-suggestion of replacing Harkless with Layman isn't supported by numbers either. And both of those sample sizes are sufficient enough to have some confidence in

I get it: in the 4th season of seeming inertia stomping on the same damn treadmill people want to see changes. They also want to see some upside somewhere, anywhere. So, let's go with the newer guys. Fine, I won't object, sure, try it and see what happens. But at least acknowledge that the desire for Collins and Layman to replace Aminu and Harkless isn't based upon actual measurable performance and production. Rather, it's based upon about equal parts of bias and that familiarity-breeds-contempt thing

so yeah, there's no reason, except maybe in the Stotts mind why Nurkic and Collins can't play together. There's also no statistical reason to expect that would be better than Aminu and Nurkic

 

[Hoopguru]

Collins when he sees 20 or more minutes this season:

14 games
11-3 record

23.8 mpg
8.9 ppg
5.6 rpg
1.0 bpg
.650 TS %
126 ORTG
108 DRTG
+6.7

START HIM

I agree. He needs time at the 4 and AFA is a 3.

 

[borim69]

am i'm the only one here that thinks Swanigan looks slower and and more fat compared to last year in his 1st Summer League??

People who have had problems with weight will always have problems with their weight, it is a constant struggle. Sometimes we poke fun at people because we think it is as simple as "putting the fork down" but in some cases it is not. Even being a high caliber athlete it can really affect you. usually you see it in football players but Duckworth comes to mind in this scenario.

 

[stampedehero]

I think his struggles arise from not being Ed Davis.

hahah. Vastly unfair. That was cruel.

 

[Propagandist]

I just don’t know why Aminu plays over Collins. What does he do that Collins can’t? Better yet, why can’t he play small forward? He’s also a free agent after the season. Shouldn’t it be a bigger priority to develop the lottery pick?

I personally think Chief does everything better than Collins except maybe be as tall. We are trying to win and Stotts thinks (and I agree) that starting Chief gives us the best chance to win games. And for some unknown reason Stotts will not play Chief at small forward. I've heard him asked about it several times and he just says that Chief's best position is PF. Rigidity is one of the inexplicable things about Stotts.

 

[BonesJones]

I personally think Chief does everything better than Collins except maybe be as tall. We are trying to win and Stotts thinks (and I agree) that starting Chief gives us the best chance to win games. And for some unknown reason Stotts will not play Chief at small forward. I've heard him asked about it several times and he just says that Chief's best position is PF. Rigidity is one of the inexplicable things about Stotts.

Zach is a better interior defender and finisher. He also sets better screens.

 

[BBert]

I personally think Chief does everything better than Collins except maybe be as tall. We are trying to win and Stotts thinks (and I agree) that starting Chief gives us the best chance to win games. And for some unknown reason Stotts will not play Chief at small forward. I've heard him asked about it several times and he just says that Chief's best position is PF. Rigidity is one of the inexplicable things about Stotts.

That's an incomplete answer for sure. The salient question is, what lineup combination makes the team better, not what lineup makes Chief better.

 

[Propagandist]

Zach is a better interior defender and finisher. He also sets better screens.

(You love you some Zach Collins...) I really think if Stotts felt that playing Zach more would give us a better chance of winning games, then he would. Don't you?

 

[oldmangrouch]

(You love you some Zach Collins...) I really think if Stotts felt that playing Zach more would give us a better chance of winning games, then he would. Don't you?

Except that the foul trouble issue confuses things. Even if Stotts thought he was otherwise playing great, foul trouble is a deal breaker.

 

[Propagandist]

Except that the foul trouble issue confuses things. Even if Stotts thought he was otherwise playing great, foul trouble is a deal breaker.

In real life, people that suck at defense foul a lot.

 

[BonesJones]

(You love you some Zach Collins...) I really think if Stotts felt that playing Zach more would give us a better chance of winning games, then he would. Don't you?

I really don't think Stotts has a good feel for what would actually win us games.

 

[Propagandist]

I really don't think Stotts has a good feel for what would actually win us games.

We totally agree on this. And I like Zach, I just like Chief too.