Time to trade CJ

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mook said:
In terms of contract, yeah, I don't see us getting a fantastic deal in exchange. I think it's certainly possible, though, that there's a 6'7 to 6'9 guy out there whose skills better align with our needs who is similarly overpaid. Tobias Harris is the obvious choice.
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Yes, it would have to be a bad contract for bad contract challenge trade, much like the Warriors trading D'Angelo Russell for Andrew Wiggins (and, of course, a likely extremely valuable draft pick but I don't think that would be happening in a CJ trade). Wiggins fit better for Golden State and they believed they could better unlock his potential than Russell's.
 
Minstrel said:
Yes, it would have to be a bad contract for bad contract challenge trade, much like the Warriors trading D'Angelo Russell for Andrew Wiggins (and, of course, a likely extremely valuable draft pick but I don't think that would be happening in a CJ trade). Wiggins fit better for Golden State and they believed they could better unlock his potential than Russell's.
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So far, they've been right. Only three games, but he's been hyper-efficient. Of course they've lost all 3, but that's to be expected.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
So far, they've been right. Only three games, but he's been hyper-efficient. Of course they've lost all 3, but that's to be expected.
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Yes, and it seems like his defense has been pretty solid. At least, that's what a couple of articles have said--I haven't watched him play for Golden State yet.

If they do tap into some large percentage of the potential he was believed to have entering the league, that's going to be pretty scary next year when they have a healthy Curry and Thompson. And whomever they draft near or at the top of the lottery.

If the Blazers believe they can pull something similar off, then trading McCollum makes sense. His fit is non-ideal, but he's not a perfect fit with anyone at his size and with his defensive deficiencies. I have less faith in Portland's coaching staff than Golden State's, though...
 
Minstrel said:
Yes, and it seems like his defense has been pretty solid. At least, that's what a couple of articles have said--I haven't watched him play for Golden State yet.

If they do tap into some large percentage of the potential he was believed to have entering the league, that's going to be pretty scary next year when they have a healthy Curry and Thompson. And whomever they draft near or at the top of the lottery.

If the Blazers believe they can pull something similar off, then trading McCollum makes sense. His fit is non-ideal, but he's not a perfect fit with anyone at his size and with his defensive deficiencies. I have less faith in Portland's coaching staff than Golden State's, though...
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Got 26 games left to showcase him. If only Dame could just spend the next two months rehabbing his groin strain while CJ takes the lead dog role. Maybe him averaging 28 ppg over the final 1/3 of the season would dramatically increase his trade value.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Got 26 games left to showcase him. If only Dame could just spend the next two months rehabbing his groin strain while CJ takes the lead dog role. Maybe him averaging 28 ppg over the final 1/3 of the season would dramatically increase his trade value.
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Nah, that would just justify Olshey keeping him.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Got 26 games left to showcase him. If only Dame could just spend the next two months rehabbing his groin strain while CJ takes the lead dog role. Maybe him averaging 28 ppg over the final 1/3 of the season would dramatically increase his trade value.
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50/50 chance in that scenario he tanks his value instead. He is a high volume/low efficiency scorer when he has Dame to draw the defensive heat...what is he going to do without Dame for an extended period?
 
oldmangrouch said:
50/50 chance in that scenario he tanks his value instead. He is a high volume/low efficiency scorer when he has Dame to draw the defensive heat...what is he going to do without Dame for an extended period?
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You might want to double-check the history of CJ's performance in games Dame misses.
 
Maybe this has been posted elsewhere, but I just ran across this on some NBA site mentioning 5 trade ideas regarding Embiid. Here is one of them:

Embiid to the Blazers for C.J. McCollum, Jusuf Nurkic, Trevor Ariza and two first-round picks
We already know that the Blazers are going to have to blow up their star-studded backcourt if they want to be taken seriously in the Western Conference. Even with Damian Lillard putting up some crazy numbers this season, they find themselves at 25-31 and four games out of the No. 8 seed heading into the break.

A huge move is needed in the Pacific Northwest. Teaming Lillard up with Embiid would be that move in more ways than one. Talk about an inside-out game to compete with the big boys in the conference.

On the other hand, Philadelphia adds an outside scoring threat who is capable of going for 20-plus on a nightly basis. It also picks up a center in Nurkic who was on an upward trajectory prior to suffering a devastating injury back in March of 2019. If he can return to form, this would be a tremendous move.
 
lamlor said:
Maybe this has been posted elsewhere, but I just ran across this on some NBA site mentioning 5 trade ideas regarding Embiid. Here is one of them:

Embiid to the Blazers for C.J. McCollum, Jusuf Nurkic, Trevor Ariza and two first-round picks
We already know that the Blazers are going to have to blow up their star-studded backcourt if they want to be taken seriously in the Western Conference. Even with Damian Lillard putting up some crazy numbers this season, they find themselves at 25-31 and four games out of the No. 8 seed heading into the break.

A huge move is needed in the Pacific Northwest. Teaming Lillard up with Embiid would be that move in more ways than one. Talk about an inside-out game to compete with the big boys in the conference.

On the other hand, Philadelphia adds an outside scoring threat who is capable of going for 20-plus on a nightly basis. It also picks up a center in Nurkic who was on an upward trajectory prior to suffering a devastating injury back in March of 2019. If he can return to form, this would be a tremendous move.
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Fascinating idea. That Philly would never do.

Dame/Trent/Hood/Collins/Embiid. Scary.
 
I’m all for trading CJ I do like him in playoff matchups when you need guys who can create and get their own shot.
 
lamlor said:
Maybe this has been posted elsewhere, but I just ran across this on some NBA site mentioning 5 trade ideas regarding Embiid. Here is one of them:

Embiid to the Blazers for C.J. McCollum, Jusuf Nurkic, Trevor Ariza and two first-round picks
We already know that the Blazers are going to have to blow up their star-studded backcourt if they want to be taken seriously in the Western Conference. Even with Damian Lillard putting up some crazy numbers this season, they find themselves at 25-31 and four games out of the No. 8 seed heading into the break.

A huge move is needed in the Pacific Northwest. Teaming Lillard up with Embiid would be that move in more ways than one. Talk about an inside-out game to compete with the big boys in the conference.

On the other hand, Philadelphia adds an outside scoring threat who is capable of going for 20-plus on a nightly basis. It also picks up a center in Nurkic who was on an upward trajectory prior to suffering a devastating injury back in March of 2019. If he can return to form, this would be a tremendous move.
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That site is stupid because that trade doesn't come close to working financially. CJ for Embiid works but not adding one of the other two let alone both of them.
 
hoopsjock said:
That site is stupid because that trade doesn't come close to working financially. CJ for Embiid works but not adding one of the other two let alone both of them.
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Add Ant to that, and bring back Harris too.
 
mook said:
I don't think CJ's relationship with Dame is truly extraordinary. I've listened to CJ's podcast, and he clearly likes and respects Dame, but so does most of the league. Dame hates trading anybody, but he's also smart enough to realize CJ probably never reaches his potential playing as Dame's second fiddle. CJ needs to be on a team where he's the primary shot creator from the guard .
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PtldPlatypus said:
You might want to double-check the history of CJ's performance in games Dame misses.
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He did have a triple double when Lillard was out for the Atlanta game last season.
It seems at least possible that McCollum on his own team could be as good as someone like Kemba Walker.
 
blazerfan11 said:
He did have a triple double when Lillard was out for the Atlanta game last season.
It seems at least possible that McCollum on his own team could be as good as someone like Kemba Walker.
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Kemba has become a really good player and quicker than hell. He's also a pretty good PG. He's a 4 time all-star, deservedly so. And, Kemba has dealt with being the primary defensive focus of opposing defenses, night after night, when he was in Charlotte. That's something CJ has never faced
 
wizenheimer said:
Kemba has become a really good player and quicker than hell. He's also a pretty good PG. He's a 4 time all-star, deservedly so. And, Kemba has dealt with being the primary defensive focus of opposing defenses, night after night, when he was in Charlotte. That's something CJ has never faced
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So are you saying it's not possible?
 
wizenheimer said:
that CJ could be as good as Kemba? no, I don't believe there's much chance of that. Kemba is significantly better than CJ right now, and has been for several years. And he's only a year older than CJ
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That’s the thing, CJ is not super young with loads of room to improve. He is who he is, he will be 29 in September and he’s not going to get much better. I think he can be second or third best player for a contender but not when the best player on that team is a point guard with similar set of skills. And you can get most what he offers for less and without the long term commitment.
 
This is kind of the big picture problem with McCollum--he really needs to "defend" the point guard position, but he can't actually be the point guard. He has more passing ability than some are giving him credit for, but he's not a natural distributor. Even as a shoot-first point guard, he really doesn't make sense as the main play-maker for an offense. Which pushes him into the off-guard position, but if you also have a proper point guard, it creates defensive issues unless that point guard is a really big one who can guard the type of wings who often play shooting guard.

It's the same issue the Warriors were staring at if they kept Russell as a long-term piece--Curry and Russell together would have given the team serious, probably unsolvable, defensive issues.

McCollum only really makes sense for a team that doesn't have a star point guard (so McCollum can technically occupy that job) and has a main distributor at another position. So, if the Warriors didn't have Curry at point guard, McCollum could potentially make sense there with Draymond Green. It's why his natural fit is with the 76ers, who have Ben Simmons as their main distributor as a forward. They could slot McCollum in at the 1, so that he has a like-size counterpart to defend, and let Simmons do the heavy lifting in terms of play-making for others.

That depresses his value a lot, that there are so few teams where McCollum makes sense. Portland isn't one of them, unfortunately.
 
Minstrel said:
This is kind of the big picture problem with McCollum--he really needs to "defend" the point guard position, but he can't actually be the point guard. He has more passing ability than some are giving him credit for, but he's not a natural distributor. Even as a shoot-first point guard, he really doesn't make sense as the main play-maker for an offense. Which pushes him into the off-guard position, but if you also have a proper point guard, it creates defensive issues unless that point guard is a really big one who can guard the type of wings who often play shooting guard.

It's the same issue the Warriors were staring at if they kept Russell as a long-term piece--Curry and Russell together would have given the team serious, probably unsolvable, defensive issues.

McCollum only really makes sense for a team that doesn't have a star point guard (so McCollum can technically occupy that job) and has a main distributor at another position. So, if the Warriors didn't have Curry at point guard, McCollum could potentially make sense there with Draymond Green. It's why his natural fit is with the 76ers, who have Ben Simmons as their main distributor as a forward. They could slot McCollum in at the 1, so that he has a like-size counterpart to defend, and let Simmons do the heavy lifting in terms of play-making for others.

That depresses his value a lot, that there are so few teams where McCollum makes sense. Portland isn't one of them, unfortunately.
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Perfect explanation.

Besides the 76er's, he'd also fit along star players where the ball dominant player is over 6'5. So he could fit with the Clippers, Bucks, Lakers, Nuggets, Pelicans, probably a couple I'm forgetting....but it's a short list and most teams with a star I'm describing are already really good (because of that star) and not looking to shake things up. Or are in our conference. Or don't have pieces we want. Or all of the above.

There's a reason guys like Lou Williams has never signed a contract over $8m, and Ben Gordon kind of capped out in Chicago. Both guys did their best work coming off the bench as Microwaves. Both guys are hard to fit as starters because they don't distribute enough and aren't good enough to be star scorers.

CJ is a better player than Ben Gordon, but it's pretty instructive to look at Gordon's career stats and CJ's.

CJ covers more miles than literally every other NBA player. As he gets older and loses a little of that energy, he may not age well.
 
Well, one thing we can all agree on is that the title to this thread is obviously incorrect for the next few months. Trading CJ is no longer something that can happen until the season ends. Whatever your opinions may be about him, rooting for him to play well for the rest of the season will help the Blazers do better and will increase his trade value.
 
mook said:
Perfect explanation.

Besides the 76er's, he'd also fit along star players where the ball dominant player is over 6'5. So he could fit with the Clippers, Bucks, Lakers, Nuggets, Pelicans, probably a couple I'm forgetting....but it's a short list and most teams with a star I'm describing are already really good (because of that star) and not looking to shake things up. Or are in our conference. Or don't have pieces we want. Or all of the above.

There's a reason guys like Lou Williams has never signed a contract over $8m, and Ben Gordon kind of capped out in Chicago. Both guys did their best work coming off the bench as Microwaves. Both guys are hard to fit as starters because they don't distribute enough and aren't good enough to be star scorers.

CJ is a better player than Ben Gordon, but it's pretty instructive to look at Gordon's career stats and CJ's.

CJ covers more miles than literally every other NBA player. As he gets older and loses a little of that energy, he may not age well.
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it's interesting looking at that stat category, and when you do, the distance CJ travels becomes less 'impressive'. You need to weigh distance with average speed. He's only 147th in average speed. Some of the players who have higher average speed are Caleb Swanigan (yeah, that biggie), Moses Brown, Cody Zeller, Jake Layman, Jabari Parker, Jakob Poeltl, Nasir Little (a lot faster), & Doug McDermott

knowing that a big chunk of distance traveled for all NBA players is in transition, whether offensive or defensive transition, the fact CJ moves slower than 146 players means he's probably loafing in transition...and that matches the eye test.

I'm not worried about CJ, I'm worried about Dame. CJ only covers 420 more feet than Dame and Dame's average speed in 4.03 vs CJ at 4.33. Now, I'm assuming that's MPH so we're talking about a lot of walking pace in that distance, as well as some standing pace
 
wizenheimer said:
it's interesting looking at that stat category, and when you do, the distance CJ travels becomes less 'impressive'. You need to weigh distance with average speed. He's only 147th in average speed. Some of the players who have higher average speed are Caleb Swanigan (yeah, that biggie), Moses Brown, Cody Zeller, Jake Layman, Jabari Parker, Jakob Poeltl, Nasir Little (a lot faster), & Doug McDermott

knowing that a big chunk of distance traveled for all NBA players is in transition, whether offensive or defensive transition, the fact CJ moves slower than 146 players means he's probably loafing in transition...and that matches the eye test.

I'm not worried about CJ, I'm worried about Dame. CJ only covers 420 more feet than Dame and Dame's average speed in 4.03 vs CJ at 4.33. Now, I'm assuming that's MPH so we're talking about a lot of walking pace in that distance, as well as some standing pace
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and dribbling!
 
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