Time to trade CJ

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bobf said:
I don’t see that it’s time to trade CJ. He’s taken a monumental leap in offensive efficiency this year. He’s rivaling Dame. Sure CJ gets 2+ fewer assists than Dame but he also has 2 fewer turnovers. That’s probably a wash. Dame gets a lot more FTA but CJ offsets that with better shooting. CJ has always been less efficient than Dame but this year for the first time, he’s not.

Here are CJ’s improvements per 36 vs past 3 years:
TS% 0.620 up from 0.543
Assists +48%
Turnovers -35%
Steals +65%
Points +35%
FTA +28%

We definitely need him. Average players are hard to come by and he’s way above average. Who knows if he’ll keep this up but I’d like to find out..

Anyway, I do agree he’s not a good fit. So if you can get a better player or an equal player who’s a better fit, then it makes sense. But isn’t that always true for every player? I don’t think there is more reason now than before to try to trade CJ. I don’t think a small-sample hot streak is much to go on.
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Ok, so you're okay with having a massive part of our salary cap in our guards because Trent is about to get paid. He has shown he can be a very good starter and he's going to get a massive offer this summer. Plus we have Ant waiting in the wings.

So we're about to invest a ton of money in our guards while we have some pretty massive holes in other positions.
 
bobf said:
I don’t see that it’s time to trade CJ. He’s taken a monumental leap in offensive efficiency this year. He’s rivaling Dame. Sure CJ gets 2+ fewer assists than Dame but he also has 2 fewer turnovers. That’s probably a wash. Dame gets a lot more FTA but CJ offsets that with better shooting. CJ has always been less efficient than Dame but this year for the first time, he’s not.

Here are CJ’s improvements per 36 vs past 3 years:
TS% 0.620 up from 0.543
Assists +48%
Turnovers -35%
Steals +65%
Points +35%
FTA +28%

We definitely need him. Average players are hard to come by and he’s way above average. Who knows if he’ll keep this up but I’d like to find out..

Anyway, I do agree he’s not a good fit. So if you can get a better player or an equal player who’s a better fit, then it makes sense. But isn’t that always true for every player? I don’t think there is more reason now than before to try to trade CJ. I don’t think a small-sample hot streak is much to go on.
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This thread was started over a year ago. And it was probably started a couple years late. It's been time to trade CJ for quite a while now.

Except right now, of course, while he's injured and his value is depressed.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Ok, so you're okay with having a massive part of our salary cap in our guards because Trent is about to get paid. He has shown he can be a very good starter and he's going to get a massive offer this summer. Plus we have Ant waiting in the wings.

So we're about to invest a ton of money in our guards while we have some pretty massive holes in other positions.
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Depends what we can get for CJ. Trent hasn’t proven he’s as good as CJ. Ant hasn’t proven that he’s even average. Things are looking good but not proven. I’m fine with trading CJ if we get equal value, better fit. I’m not fine with ditching CJ for lower value because we imagine that Trent and Ant are equal to CJ.
 
bobf said:
Depends what we can get for CJ. Trent hasn’t proven he’s as good as CJ. Ant hasn’t proven that he’s even average. Things are looking good but not proven. I’m fine with trading CJ if we get equal value, better fit. I’m not fine with ditching CJ for lower value because we imagine that Trent and Ant are equal to CJ.
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Nobody is saying firesale him. We can be patient, but it's time for him to go. We have Trent who can be a VERY good starter.

CJ has the most value.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
This thread was started over a year ago. And it was probably started a couple years late. It's been time to trade CJ for quite a while now.
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In my mind it’s basically always time to trade for better value and/ or fit and never time to trade down out of frustration.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Nobody is saying firesale him. We can be patient, but it's time for him to go. We have Trent who can be a VERY good starter.

CJ has the most value.
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Yeah, agreed on this. I think the earliest we see a deal involving CJ is after the draft after our pick has been conveyed. Giving anything to the Rockets to make this year’s 1st unprotected will signal a trade coming and will probably hurt team morale.

The playoffs will give us a clearer picture of what we need to do. We still need to see if Gary can play like this in the playoffs and that Anfernee can continue the production with increased minutes. Another big playoff showing might also up the value in McCollum.

Plus no sense in rushing to get rid of him when teams like the Bucks/Raptors/6ers/Celtics haven’t expressed any indication they’re looking to get rid of Middleton/Siakam/Simmons/Brown/etc.
 
As someone else said, as always, it depends what you could get for CJ. Or, what can we get for Trent.
I'm not opposed to trading CJ. I just don't think he's bringing back someone like Siakam, definitely not someone like Tatum. There's not a lot of young veteran star power at PF that I can realistically see as obtainable for him. Especially when you consider team direction. We can throw out SIakam, Tatum, Sabonis till we're blue in the face, but does anyone have a compelling reason for those teams?
Whereas with Trent, if we worry about paying him and having all that money in our guards, he's SO young, he can fit a rebuilding ish team that might want to move a younger player. I've seen Atlanta fans want a SG to slot next to Trae. A Collins for Trent swap would be inteersting. Especially if we threrw in Zach, they threw in a lesser SG/SF prospect.
 
AldoTrapani said:
And how do you know Blazers weren’t blowing the Rockets phone up begging them to take the deal?
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I don't even know if I agree with you but great job defending the team. :clap::clap::clap::cheers:

Oh and I do agree with you. Even though Olshey has said in the past that CJ is untouchable we don't know what he was doing during that Harden madness.
 
RR7 said:
I've seen Atlanta fans want a SG to slot next to Trae. A Collins for Trent swap would be inteersting. Especially if we threrw in Zach, they threw in a lesser SG/SF prospect.
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I kind of like that idea. And a Collins/Covington forward combo might be really good. Might not be as good as RoCo/Jones defensively, but a major upgrade on offense

two teams trade their upcoming RFA headaches. I'm curious which one of Trent/J.Collins signs for more money this summer
 
wizenheimer said:
I kind of like that idea. And a Collins/Covington forward combo might be really good. Might not be as good as RoCo/Jones defensively, but a major upgrade on offense

two teams trade their upcoming RFA headaches. I'm curious which one of Trent/J.Collins signs for more money this summer
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I haven't looked at available free agent dollars to see who will be spenders yet, so haven't a guess on who would make more. Generically looking at their numbers, one would say Collins. But position scarcity/intriguing upside, can see it being Trent.

I'm all for moving CJ in the right deal, but almost feel capitilizing on Trent's value before we overpay/pay what he is worth is the better move, ultimately.
 
RR7 said:
I haven't looked at available free agent dollars to see who will be spenders yet, so haven't a guess on who would make more. Generically looking at their numbers, one would say Collins. But position scarcity/intriguing upside, can see it being Trent.

I'm all for moving CJ in the right deal, but almost feel capitilizing on Trent's value before we overpay/pay what he is worth is the better move, ultimately.
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Serious question -

Who has more trade value right now, CJ or Trent?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Serious question -

Who has more trade value right now, CJ or Trent?
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depends?

I mean, generically it should be CJ if only because his 30M salary offers a lot more opportunity for bringing back player(s). It also offers the option of cap-relief

if Trent was a first round pick in his 3rd year, with this and another season left on his rookie deal, he'd have really good value as a centerpiece in a bigger trade. Some teams would probably give up a pretty high pick for him too. But with his impending free agency this summer, I'd think that knocks some of his value away
 
Natebishop3 said:
Serious question -

Who has more trade value right now, CJ or Trent?
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Agree with what Wiz said. I think the value depends on the teams targeted, and if it needs a 3rd team to make the most sense. I don't think as a whole the same teams would be interested in both, where you could easily say, for example, Milwaukee would pay X for CJ, Y for Trent, one of them is more. I think it's more, Milwaukee would have more interest in CJ, a team like Memphis, Atlanta, N.O., etc. would maybe have more interest in Trent.
 
If CJ is traded it will not be before the trade deadline. The options are too limited.
How we look in the postseason will be a huge factor in determining if either is traded or just one.
 
Quickley and?

Then deal Ant for Bamba.

Go full steam ahead with Trent as a cornerstone at SG.
 
I would be happy. CJ too ball dominant and plays no defense. Trent Jr age 21 Sniper who doesn't dominate ball and plays defense. CJ also in 1.5 years is free agent that can get Max deal which Portland could not afford because of Dame max. Give me Randle for CJ. I doubt it will happen but damn it be amazing . Either way!! DO You NOT SEE That TRENT JR is much more compatible with DAME? Trent can be our Klay Thompson doesn’t dominate ball plays D sniper
 
bobf said:
Depends what we can get for CJ. Trent hasn’t proven he’s as good as CJ. Ant hasn’t proven that he’s even average. Things are looking good but not proven. I’m fine with trading CJ if we get equal value, better fit. I’m not fine with ditching CJ for lower value because we imagine that Trent and Ant are equal to CJ.
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We do not NEED Trent to score like CJ. We need trent to score 20-22 pts be a sniper and Play defense. Dame usage rate Increased by 5% without CJ and so did his scoring and assists. Dame is our playmaker and scorer, Trent can be Our Klay. We saw enough that CJ and Dame don’t work together at highest level. Trent Jr is a no brainer next to Dame
 
Natebishop3 said:
Serious question -

Who has more trade value right now, CJ or Trent?
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Insane. Trent Jr needs to be cornerstone next to Dame for next 5 years. Trent next to Dame is magical fit. Trading and not resigning Trent Jr will be one of biggest mistake in franchise history.
 
Serbian said:
DO You NOT SEE That TRENT JR is much more compatible with DAME? Trent can be our Klay Thompson doesn’t dominate ball plays D sniper
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So who is out Durant and Draymond in that scenario? Even if you look at the years before KD, Klay and Steph were successful because they had a PF who could handle the ball. It was never just the backcourt that made it work.
 
wizenheimer said:
well, this will get Blazerkor revved up

Kincks would have to pay a lot more than Randle. As in Quickley + Burks or Bullock and a first.
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Yeah, I like it that the Knicks are interested but I think Olshey thinks the way you do and I just don't think that is realistic given how well Randle has been playing. I honestly think that a three team deal that sends Nurk and Randle to the Wolves, KAT and Rivers to us and CJ to the Knicks makes a ton of sense for all parties.

Minny upgrades their front court having two quality starters in the post instead of just one and I think they win more games immediately, they do have to try and extend both guys in the off season but if they couldn't they could make more trades next season.

I think if CJ is the guy the Knicks want then this a great deal for them.

We get an actual all star to pair with Dame who is a big time scorer and who is actually an upgrade on D from what we've been getting from Kanter. We also get a guy in Rivers that can run an offense at the point and defend both guard positions off of the bench. Rivers is a better fit for us than any of the guys you mentioned and maybe you're right and the Knicks value CJ like you do and they give us the Mavs first rounder in the deal too.
 
Sign and trade Randle for CJ in the offseason?
 
Scalma said:
Sign and trade Randle for CJ in the offseason?
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Randle has another year on his contract. It's not an option or anything. It is only partially guaranteed according to spotrac, so in theory the Knicks could cut him and save like 16M without getting anything in return but I think 20M is a pretty good deal for the guy, considering what he's done so far this season.

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york_knicks/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/cap/2021/
 
Scalma said:
cool, then Randle and Knox for CJ
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I would go for that. I honestly as crazy as it sounds because he doesn't have near the upside of Knox, would rather have Rivers because we need a vet that can run an offense at the point and play solid D on any guard but Knox is definitely the higher value. If you're interested in cap space you could even go with Randle and the Mavs pick, which doesn't really help us win this season but could be packaged with another player for an upgrade on draft night. That's all if you are thinking like me and want to do this deal before the trade deadline.
 
wizenheimer said:
I kind of like that idea. And a Collins/Covington forward combo might be really good. Might not be as good as RoCo/Jones defensively, but a major upgrade on offense

two teams trade their upcoming RFA headaches. I'm curious which one of Trent/J.Collins signs for more money this summer
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collins reportedly turned down $90 mil contract, he wants max

i dont know if hell get max, but hell get more than trent jr fore sure, much more i would say
 
Why Quickley is the main cog for me:

The sample size of Randle’s play - is it sustainable without Thibs? Up until now, he’s looked like a Harrison Barnes clone his entire career. Thibs is THE reason for his breakout.

Quickley or bust in any CJ deal.
 
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