To the Oden "critics".

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yeah i dont really see the hate either. it's more fallout from crushed hopes. everyone knows oden isnt trying to be injured on purpose and nobody seems to doubt his desire to play - its just the tantilising teaser of 'what could be' if we had our team at full strength. there is a lot more regret than there used to be though - after the first injury most were still happy with him over durant but id say there would be very very few people that wouldnt swap the two today, again - ultimately it's not greg's fault but the franchise is bigger than greg.

i still like the kid and want him to do well for us, but if this season isnt a solid one from him i'll struggle to care about his bigger picture - we need him on the court!
 
yeah i dont really see the hate either. it's more fallout from crushed hopes. everyone knows oden isnt trying to be injured on purpose and nobody seems to doubt his desire to play - its just the tantilising teaser of 'what could be' if we had our team at full strength. there is a lot more regret than there used to be though - after the first injury most were still happy with him over durant but id say there would be very very few people that wouldnt swap the two today, again - ultimately it's not greg's fault but the franchise is bigger than greg.

i still like the kid and want him to do well for us, but if this season isnt a solid one from him i'll struggle to care about his bigger picture - we need him on the court!

very well said.
 
I've developed Blazer game-paranoia anxiety disorder. Every time Greg lands from leaping or just plain 'ol running I think he's going to break his leg in two.

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I'm not suggesting max him out. Not unless you see a full season of all star quality. How's that for "dealing" with it and "flinty realism". If he gets hurt again or performs at a low level, you low ball him or let him go. Giving up before next season isn't realistic it's stupid and unnecessarily pessimistic. He's under contract. Evaluate and make a decision. I long ago said trade him as the center piece for cp3. This isn't Rudy you don't trade him for a draft pick or cut him.

Between Oden's contract status and the pending lock-out, the team has 3 basic choices.

1) Extend him before the lock-out starts (sometime next summer). The risk - that what looks like a reasonable contract under the current CBA turns into an albatross under the new deal.

2) Refuse to extend him until after the lock-out. If his physical problems continue, no big deal. If he actually gets healthy, you risk having him walk as a free agent out of spite.

3) Keep the door open for trades. The risk, that he will suddenly turn into a star at some point in the future.

There are no "good" options here - only varying degrees of risk. IMHO, a good trade, if one can be found, is the least noxious of the bunch.
 
Oden has been very effective when healthy. It comes down to whether someone thinks he will continue to be injured at a remarkable rate or not. If one thinks that, then it doesn't matter HOW well he plays.

Personally? I think that he'll be like Ilgauskas and Camby and overcome ridiculously frequent injuries early in his career and settle into a normal playing rotation. Once he does that he will be an all-star level player EVEN IF he doesn't improve at all. If he improves--as most 22 year-olds do--then he will be a clear-cut all-star and potentially a HoF-level player.

Regarding his contract/free agency: no amount of money can acquire a player with his potential. I don't think he's worth the max, because no other team would give it to him, but paying him whatever it takes to retain him would be more wise than letting him leave over salary, since we will be over the cap whether we re-sign him or not.

Ed O.
 
This argument is pretty stupid. There's no way to quantify or qualify being a fan. Who has more gear? Who has been to move games? Who has more autographs? Who has stalked the most players? Who has smoked the most weed with Walton? It's all subjective.

I can tell you why I'm most disappointed. I can look back at some of our draft picks over the past ten years and see that we passed up on Chris Paul and Kevin Durant. I don't care who we drafted in their place. The fact that we missed out on those two players is disappointing.

Don't forget Williams too - how I think (JMHO) IS the best PG in the league.
 
Oden has been very effective when healthy. It comes down to whether someone thinks he will continue to be injured at a remarkable rate or not. If one thinks that, then it doesn't matter HOW well he plays.

Personally? I think that he'll be like Ilgauskas and Camby and overcome ridiculously frequent injuries early in his career and settle into a normal playing rotation. Once he does that he will be an all-star level player EVEN IF he doesn't improve at all. If he improves--as most 22 year-olds do--then he will be a clear-cut all-star and potentially a HoF-level player.

Regarding his contract/free agency: no amount of money can acquire a player with his potential. I don't think he's worth the max, because no other team would give it to him, but paying him whatever it takes to retain him would be more wise than letting him leave over salary, since we will be over the cap whether we re-sign him or not.

Ed O.

This.

And to be honest with you if we signed him for a reasonable rate now and he stayed healthy and blew up to clear cut all-star or HOF status I would have ZERO problem restructuring his deal and maxing him out.
 
At this point in his career Sam Bowie was worth Buck Williams. A Three time all star. Oden doesn't have a chance of such a return. So for better or worse we're stuck with him. This is depressing.
 
Bgrantfan, after all your behavior on this forum, there is simply no way I'm going to apologize to you as you don't deserve it. Taking the moral highground as you like to do now and then is simply laughable.

You are burrowing under the low ground in this thread, my man.

Are you OK mentally? I really don't see you as a poster who needs to start a call out thread. You're just kind of "there". Another tree in the forest, if you wil.

Also, you never once addressed my relevant rebuttal to your claim that Oden's expectations were a product of KP and the "media", only. I provided proof that Oden himself was talking titles before even stepping on the court. For this factual post of mine, I in return get this lame post?

Up your game.
 
What's sad is that a lot of people baggin on GO are the same ones who wanted us to draft him in the first place. Like Simmons.

Simmons actually said he'd pick Durant before that draft. I posted a thread about it a year or so ago with the Simmons column linked in the post. Simmons has his faults, but you lying about his opinion doesn't help your case.
 
Ok so let me first clear something up.

BlazerMulletMan. I owe you an apology I've behaved like a prick towards you out of frustration with your position. For that I am sorry.

Bgrantfan/PapaG after all your behavior on this forum, there is simply no way I'm going to apologize to you as you don't deserve it. Taking the moral highground as you like to do now and then is simply laughable.

OldManGrouch, I respect you even if I vehemently disagree with your Oden stance.

Look I've been a blazer fan since 77' when my father rushed into the street carrying me going nuts over the Championship. I was right there in the crowd being bouyed by the exuberance and reportedly clapping and saying Blazers over and over. I've been a fan since my age was measured in months not years (I was born in spring of 1976 FWIW.) So I'm as old school a fan as any of you oldsters and as a portion of my life I surpass most of you. I used to say "Two just like that" and "Two for Larue".

With that established here's why I am driven so nuts by the Oden "critics". It's not the guy's fault. He didn't draft himself. KP and PA made that decision so Oden vs Durant is THEIR FAULT, not Oden's. Oden may have hyped himself coming off a frustrating loss in the NCAA Finals and honestly believing he could deliver on his youthful exuberance. It was KP and the media both local and national that pumped this guy up into a once in a lifetime center. Yes, he added to it but come the fuck on he was 19 and had the national spotlight on him. Since then it's been one injury after another and I've watched that bright shiny exuberant kid turned into an increasingly hardened young man. Under the constant scrunity and criticism of media AND THE FANS, he has become withdrawn, guarded with the media and only happy on camera when it's from afar and he is unaware or uncaring.

I remember when he first got the MF surgery on his blog a bunch of people absolutely trepanned the guy. All sorts of major assholery was evident and personal attacks galore as though he had somehow shit in other people's cereal and enjoyed the plummeting crash from stardom and agonizing rehab. Some fans turned on him instantly in an aha GOTCHA kind of way, especially those who correctly picked Durant as the pick (I still feel this is yet to be decided, but many want to write history in advance). After being a small minority, the Durant camp went absolutely nuts. Thanks to asshole pieces of shit like Simmons, the Bowie meme spread as Simmons successfully made everyone forget that he PICKED ODEN OVER DURANT! Simmons being the piece of shit flip flopping shit head that he is, wanted Oden when he thought Boston would get the pick and then proceeded to jump ship once Boston got screwed. None the less, his national megaphone put the Bowie vs Jordan 2.0 meme out there, and it stuck.

People being mindless sheep that they are, ate this up with a spoon never bothering to compare the types of injuries, the patterns or all the ways in which Durant is NOT Jordan and Oden is NOT Bowie. I won't go into that here as it's been rehashed endlessly. The point is this is stupid in the box thinking of a narrative sort that people just can't seem to climb out of much like the old lady who has fallen and can't get up.

So what has Oden done wrong? Well he took a picture of his dong and txt'd it to a girl. I'm sure he is one of MILLIONS of guys his age who has done the same thing. Young people's sense of privacy is downright insane to me, but on the other hand that's their business...until it's leaked to the media by a petty person. Was this embarrassing to the franchise? Yes. On the other hand it's more joke fodder then a return to the Jail Blazer era. So has Oden done anything wrong by the team? No! He has done everything the trainers and medical staff (another group that might share in the blame along with KP and PA) have asked of him. His sole mistake in my opinion was the 24 hour fitness fiasco. Now that was STUPID! However, it showed he loved the game and wanted to play along with what we now know is a pattern of poor judgement out of innocent youth. B-Roy being equally stupid with the rap video thing, but who cares about that EITHER.

So then why criticize Oden? Sour grapes over Durant? :check:

Sure plenty of that!

Why else? A desire to be right? I think this is true as well for some folks.

Why else? A desire to continue to have a victim mentality as a fan of a Franchise that has WILDLY fluctuating fortunes (we've done damn fucking well as a small market franchise thank you very much) it's hard not to be a bit manic-depressive. Definitely some folks who lived through crushing disappointment (Jordan, Walton's injuries, Game 7 of WCF etc.) almost feel more comfortable steeling themselves for certain doom then trying to look at things objectively.

So lets look at some facts. Has Oden disappointed everyone who isn't his mother? I would say definitely yes and I include myself here. Is it his fault? No! Definitely not! Any fault lies with the following in order of importance: PA, KP, the Media, the Blazers medical and training staff, HCP for putting together awesome mixes that always have us drooling for next year.

So when you criticize Oden and say "Oh woe is us, we're doomed he will be a loser, cut bait CUT FUCKING BAIT!!!" You are giving up on a guy who is key by any RATIONAL estimation to getting a ring. If you are giving up on Oden, I would say you are giving up on the Blazers. While we are at it, why are folks so non-chalant about Roy's injury history which, and this will sound crazy to some, is FAR more worrisome then Oden's. Why? Well his injuries are all soft tissue, muscle related and foot related. Those are the injuries that NEVER heal completely and NEVER go away. Roy has accomplished a ton, and certainly far more then Oden, but I believe his injury history is just as scary if not more so then Oden. I also believe Oden will still be playing when Roy is done. You can disagree with this last Oden injury vs. Roy injury all you want and I'm open to that debate.

What I'm fucking sick of is the CONSTANT, RELENTLESS drumbeat of Oden hate. And it is ODEN HATE, make no mistake. If people are upset about not getting Durant direct that hate at PA and KP where it belongs! Oden is doing the best he can and I support him and WILL continue to support him because to me Oden is the single most important player on this team in regards to potential championships. This was true last year and is 10x more true after the three headed Monster team in Miami was created.

So for god sakes get off Oden's jock and start supporting him and the team. If you see Oden phoning in a game (and we know he's healthy) or you hear reports ala D Miles that he is phoning in rehab then go to town. But until then please, PLEASE get off his jock, besides have you seen that thing? That's like being a Romania soldier during the time of Vlad Ţepeș, you're just asking to get impaled!

In closing lets go after players who by statements or actions aren't showing their best effort (Rudy for example) or McMillan. Guys who are giving it their all every night whether rehabbing or playing shouldn't be criticized they should be supported as long as they wear the Black and Red.

You can't fault people for being disappointed. After being touted as one of the next great centers, he has been a huge disappointment. The injuries are a big part of that (not his fault but still disappointing.). But what's really been disappointing is his play WHILE healthy. Yes, his production ticked up right before the injury, but his career numbers after 82 games are 9/7/1. No matter how you cut that, it's a huge disappointment for a #1 pick. All of that said, I'm ready to start anew this year. As many have said, a healthy dominant Oden is our key to winning a championship. Healthy should happen in a couple months. After that, we'll be waiting on dominance.
 
Oden has been very effective when healthy. It comes down to whether someone thinks he will continue to be injured at a remarkable rate or not. If one thinks that, then it doesn't matter HOW well he plays.

Personally? I think that he'll be like Ilgauskas and Camby and overcome ridiculously frequent injuries early in his career and settle into a normal playing rotation. Once he does that he will be an all-star level player EVEN IF he doesn't improve at all. If he improves--as most 22 year-olds do--.

Actually, most 22 year olds don't pan out.
 
Personally? I think that he'll be like Ilgauskas and Camby and overcome ridiculously frequent injuries early in his career and settle into a normal playing rotation. Once he does that he will be an all-star level player EVEN IF he doesn't improve at all. If he improves--as most 22 year-olds do--then he will be a clear-cut all-star and potentially a HoF-level player.
Wow. I wish I could share your optimism. I'm afraid that Oden will suffer a couple of more major injuries and retire within 3 years.
 
We should really just get it over with and rename our city Microscope.

Are you under it?
 
The biggest problem with Oden is that Durant has been so damn good! I don't think the frustration level would be nearly as high if Durant was just a "good" player. The fact that he's playing like a top 5 player in the league makes the Oden situation very painful.
 
At this point in his career Sam Bowie was worth Buck Williams. A Three time all star. Oden doesn't have a chance of such a return. So for better or worse we're stuck with him. This is depressing.

At this point, Bowie was still at Kentucky, actually.

Ed O.
 
At this point, Bowie was still at Kentucky, actually.

Ed O.

Correct, and if Oden played in college last year, he'd have basically missed 2 out of the last 3 years due to injury, just like Bowie at KY.
 
Correct, and if Oden played in college last year, he'd have basically missed 2 out of the last 3 years due to injury, just like Bowie at KY.

Yeah, the difference is that between injuries, Oden was playing great basketball at the NBA level while Bowie was playing well, but not amazingly so, at the college level.

So at least we know Oden is a far, far better player than Bowie was. Now we have to see if he can be a more durable player than Bowie was. Hopefully!
 
Yeah, the difference is that between injuries, Oden was playing great basketball at the NBA level while Bowie was playing well, but not amazingly so, at the college level.

So at least we know Oden is a far, far better player than Bowie was. Now we have to see if he can be a more durable player than Bowie was. Hopefully!

Of course!
 
So at least we know Oden is a far, far better player than Bowie was.

Oden is potentially somewhat better than Bowie, not far far better. It's like comparing Olajuwon to Ewing. Bowie without injuries was Ewing-level. Give Oden 3-5 years of injury-free coaching much better than he'll ever get from McMillan, and he'd be Hakeem-level.
 
Oden is potentially somewhat better than Bowie, not far far better. It's like comparing Olajuwon to Ewing. Bowie without injuries was Ewing-level. Give Oden 3-5 years of injury-free coaching much better than he'll ever get from McMillan, and he'd be Hakeem-level.

I don't really disagree with your evaluation of Oden's ability, but I think you're overestimating Bowie a bit. Ewing dominated at the collegiate level. Bowie didn't. Ewing was seen as an all-time great level prospect at draft time and didn't really disappoint, rationally (though Knicks fans are rarely rational as a group
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). Bowie was seen as a bit of a reach because he was big. Almost everyone knew Jordan was more talented...people thought Bowie was an acceptable choice because they placed too great a premium on size.

By contrast, most people, at draft time, felt Oden was both the most talented and had the size, which is why the Oden-over-Durant decision doesn't really bear much resemblance to the Bowie-over-Jordan decision.

I think Bowie was a fine talent and probably would have been a Brad Daugherty level player had he remained healthy (at least as long as Daugherty remained healthy, heh).
 
I didn't say they "pan out". I said they "improve".

And they do.

Ed O.

Except for the 21 year-old Durant, who was 2nd in the MVP race last season. He won't ever be more than a "scorer", which is the only thing he does "well".

Ed's logical pretzels continually amuse and amaze me.
 

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