Top prospects decline workouts with Portland

[B-Roy]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wi...6/top_prospects_decline_workouts_in_portland/

"The agents are saying, 'Where is my guy going to play for you guys? I understand you like him and you may move up (in the draft) to get him, but I don't know if I want him playing for you,'" Buchanan said. "Even though we have a history of being able to move up in the draft to get the (prospect) we like, we're having trouble bringing guys in for workouts."

I don't really care. We aren't going to get any of them anyways.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Hell, they've probably seen the splinters Jerryd was pulling out of his butt as a highly touted prospect in a great draft and figured if he can't get on the court what the hell can they do to get any PT.

 

[THE HCP]

No news here! What did they expect?

 

[PapaG]

Headline story in today's Oregonian for the Sports section. Nice to see RealGM give the credit at the end of the story, though.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Most of the top draft picks suck anyways and are only there based on potential.

 

[blue32]

I really wish Jerryd would have got more playing time. It really sucks to see him just rot on the bench.
I hate McMillian's rotation. Always have. So I totally understand why the agents would feel that way.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Well, they do have a point. I'm not convinced Bayless is our PG of the future, but we're pretty much set at every position. Now, we're just looking to build our bench. We have young prospects at every position.

PG: ?/Bayless/Koponen
SG: Roy/Rudy
SF: Batum/Webster
PF: Aldridge/Freeland
C: Oden/Przybilla

 

[Pinwheel1]

I really wish Jerryd would have got more playing time. It really sucks to see him just rot on the bench.
I hate McMillian's rotation. Always have. So I totally understand why the agents would feel that way.

The guy is 19 years old. Hardly rotting away. If players choose to leave college after one year that is certainly understandable. The money is huge. I can't blame them for that. But most are not NBA ready. Why should a coach have to kiss some kid's ass and let him learn on the job when that coaches own ass is on the line to win as many games as possible. These young kids can pay their dues and earn their minutes in practice.

I love Bayless' game as much as the next guy, but he did not deserve any more minutes than he got. He got beat out. To Jerryd's credit he didn't pout. Instead he worked his butt off. Hopefully it pays off this year. If not, he can wait another year until he is an old veteran of 20. Itt just pisses me off watching a guy like Roy do it the right way by staying in school and learning the game, while others want everything handed to them. Thankfully Bayless is not that type. He will earn it. But last year he was not quite ready. As a coach you have to be fair and play the guys who earn the minutes. It was hardly Nate's fault. 54 wins is the bottom line.

 

[Ed O]

The guy is 19 years old. Hardly rotting away. If players choose to leave college after one year that is certainly understandable. The money is huge. I can't blame them for that. But most are not NBA ready. Why should a coach have to kiss some kid's ass and let him learn on the job when that coaches own ass is on the line to win as many games as possible. These young kids can pay their dues and earn their minutes in practice.

There are three reasons I can see why a young player should play:

1. He is better than the alternatives,
2. He is being judged in the long run based on his short term production, or
3. He can only "develop" if he gets playing time.

I think that ONLY the first reason is legitimate. I don't think that franchises can or should judge players, especially young ones, on production in limited minutes (although it's natural for fans to do so). I also don't ascribe to the theory that players (especially young ones) can only improve by playing in actual games.

In my opinion, players CAN improve through practicing against teammates, working with assistant coaches, and working hard to develop physical capabilities (lifting weights). At some point, playing and getting to learn more tricks is important, but basics and physical maturation can take place even if a guy is the 12th man.

Bayless last year showed flashes, but Nate was responsible for winning games... not developing Bayless. Nate presumable felt that Sergio at the backup 1 gave his team the best chance to win. That doesn't mean that it was necessarily the RIGHT choice (see: my opinion on Frye v. Ike) but it doesn't mean that Bayless is forever cast aside as a failure or that Nate will never play him irrespective of how much he improves.

Jerryd is young. He has to have a good attitude if he's going to succeed as a Blazer, and I think he will.

On the other hand... potential draft picks? I can see why a 6-14 guy in the draft would not want to be the next Bayless. A top 5 pick might be able to step right into the rotation even on this solid Blazers team (presumably depleted a bit by trading up that high) but a late lottery pick would "collect dust" from a production perspective and perhaps cost himself money after his rookie contract ends.

Ed O.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

This will sound holier-than-thou, but if these players don't share an interest in what Portland's developed, then I don't want them on the team.

Championship teams have one thing in common (well probably more than one thing, but whatever), the individuals sacrifice their own possibly personal gains for the betterment of the team.

We want guys that want to be a part of this resurrection.

 

[Minstrel]

Championship teams have one thing in common (well probably more than one thing, but I'm whatever), the individuals sacrifice their own possibly personal gains for the betterment of the team.

I don't actually think this is true. I agree that championship teams don't depend on selfish players, but that's different from having players who sacrifice their own well-being for the team. For example, very few elite players take less than their worth in order to help their team win. The Spurs have been a great team, but Duncan and Parker haven't been asking for less money in order to help the team. Nor should they.

That's the same issue for these prospects. They don't want to be buried on a roster. Not playing and not contributing can hurt their chances to be maximize their value on the market.

 

[BrianFromWA]

In response to Ed's post, and speaking only for myself, I'm not keen on Nate's rotation judgment right now. I know many are, and think that with 54 wins we have to overlook perceived faults and praise him for the job he's done (which I do). However...

Nate's shown multiple times that (I) can't personally trust his opinion on

1. He is better than the alternatives,

. Choosing Taurean Green over Ramon Sessions. Starting Jack over Blake for 3 games, then yanking him. Putting Sergio at shooting guard because Jack wanted to prove he was a "pure point". Starting Travis over Batum the first few games this year. Moving Sergio to starter when Blake went down, even though the entire year Bayless had been working with the starters, and Sergio with the White Team. (To both of their credit, they made it work). There are more (pettier) ones, like the aforementioned block on Diogu PT in favor of Frye, but I think that's enough for now.

KP's said that he won't dictate how Nate runs the team on the floor, or the rotations. But I think he makes sure that he has the right ingredients in the kitchen for Nate to cook with, which is why Dixon and Jack have been traded the last couple of years, and why Blake and Outlaw may be traded before the month is out.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

For example, very few elite players take less than their worth in order to help their team win. The Spurs have been a great team, but Duncan and Parker haven't been asking for less money in order to help the team. Nor should they.

Not really what I was meaning to say. The sort of sacrifice I was referring to wasn't a monetary one, but more a willingness to accept a role so that a team can become successful. Whether that's an elite-level scorer shouldering an offensive load in a pressure-packed moment; a young player not making public waves about a diminished role even if he's on the cusp of signing his first non-rookie contract; or, a high-level rookie that looks mold himself into whatever role his current team requires, these types of players are what I call we-types and not me-types (I just freaking coined that!).

I suppose elite players wanting to be fairly compensated can, indirectly, hinder a team's success, but that wasn't the direct effect I was thinking of.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

That's the same issue for these prospects. They don't want to be buried on a roster. Not playing and not contributing can hurt their chances to be maximize their value on the market.

Oh, and I completely get this. But, I can't help but think that guys such as Joel, Rudy, Brandon, Nic, Channing, Steve and Martell, if they were in this particular draft, may place a higher value on Portland's "culture" and approach to winning than others that are primarily concerned with immediate playing time/perfect role.

Again I can't blame these draftees. But again if it were me, I'd be both flattered and tantalized at the idea that Portland's brain trust is honing in on me to be a Portland Trail Blazer.

 

[J_Ray]

"You have to chase the players wherever they are," Pritchard said. "It's been a little bit more challenging because of where we're picking. We're getting more of the second-round guys to come in (for workouts). But we're seeing the guys we need to see."

That quote makes it sound like they may be attempting to bring in some guys that are higher up on people boards at this point, and they don't think it's worth their time to workout for a team picking late in the first round. With so many workouts going on for these guys, it's not worth going to showcase your talent for nothing, wearing yourself out for a possible audition with a team that might realistically pick you.

 

[hasoos]

The facts are, with 15 man rosters, that 1/2 of the team sits around and "rots" on the bench. Even if you play 10 deep 5 never see a peep of playing time.

 

[hasoos]

So I was wondering if KP let something slip here:

You know what? The real truth is that if we haven't done most of the work by now, then we're behind the curve," Pritchard said. "Chad and our scouts have done such a good job of getting us prepared for this timeframe. These workouts are just the icing (on the cake)."

Notice how he said that "These workouts are the icing."

My money is now that he is staying in the draft, and moving up. The question is...who?

 

[Pinwheel1]

In response to Ed's post, and speaking only for myself, I'm not keen on Nate's rotation judgment right now. I know many are, and think that with 54 wins we have to overlook perceived faults and praise him for the job he's done (which I do). However....

I am not sure I have ever agreed on a coaches rotation 100 % of the time. I am not sure that it is even possible. I doubt even the head coach agrees with all their own decisions after the fact. Somtimes you don't know until you try it. The key is learning from your mistakes and making the right adjustments.

Starting JJ a whole 3 games over Blake? Starting a vet over a 19 year old rookie in his first NBA game? (on the road, against the best team in the NBA, on national TV) These are hardly big deals in the scope of a season.

I am sure you have legitimate examples of where Nate fucked up. We all do. Nate does. I don't think a coach should get a free pass on his decisions because that is part of the fun. But it happens with every coach on every team. I work with both Laker and Jazz fans and it is constant. We are talking Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson! So my point is that to bitch about a coaches rotation is both inevitable and useless.

 

[Masbee]

The guy is 19 years old. Hardly rotting away. If players choose to leave college after one year that is certainly understandable. The money is huge. I can't blame them for that. But most are not NBA ready. Why should a coach have to kiss some kid's ass and let him learn on the job when that coaches own ass is on the line to win as many games as possible. These young kids can pay their dues and earn their minutes in practice.

I love Bayless' game as much as the next guy, but he did not deserve any more minutes than he got. He got beat out. To Jerryd's credit he didn't pout. Instead he worked his butt off. Hopefully it pays off this year. If not, he can wait another year until he is an old veteran of 20. Itt just pisses me off watching a guy like Roy do it the right way by staying in school and learning the game, while others want everything handed to them. Thankfully Bayless is not that type. He will earn it. But last year he was not quite ready. As a coach you have to be fair and play the guys who earn the minutes. It was hardly Nate's fault. 54 wins is the bottom line.

+1

And to add to the 54 wins bottom line - Nate played the guys that DOMINATED at the Rose Garden, creating possibly the best atmoshphere in the NBA and SELLING TICKETS in the worst economic crisis of most residents lives. Shit - David Stern had to stop by for a game to see what the hell was going on in this corner of the country. If there is one thing Stern respects - that is a packed house.

Nate did his part to complete the turn-around of what was a "broken financial model". Sure, he played guys like Joel, Blake and Travis more minutes than if they had subbed out Oden, Bayless and Batum for more "development" time.

Do not underestimate how huge the big season is for the team. Do not take for granted that it would have all worked out the same way if the team was still focused giving playing time to prospects - and had dropped a bunch of home games.

The team is in a great place right now and there is a lot of buzz - and that come from winning games. If our young would-be studs want to join the party they need to beat out the average-at-best vets standing in their way. If they can't jump that low bar - keep working. I don't want it handed to them.

 

[B-Roy]

Most of the top draft picks suck anyways and are only there based on potential.

Like DeJuan Blair?

 

[handiman]

The Spurs have been a great team, but Duncan and Parker haven't been asking for less money in order to help the team.

I'm pretty sure Duncan took less than the max a few years back to help the Spurs' salary situation...

 

[Minstrel]

I'm pretty sure Duncan took less than the max a few years back to help the Spurs' salary situation...

Do you have a link for that? I remember talk about that, that he'd take less to help San Antonio land a major free agent, but it was all speculation, the Spurs didn't land any star free agent and Duncan signed the standard max contract.

 

[andalusian]

Do you have a link for that? I remember talk about that, that he'd take less to help San Antonio land a major free agent, but it was all speculation, the Spurs didn't land any star free agent and Duncan signed the standard max contract.

He certainly took less money for his extension:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3086623

 

[Minstrel]

He certainly took less money for his extension:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3086623

Fair enough. I didn't realize $20 million per season was actually less than the max contract for him.

That said, my point still stands. This extension is for 2010-2011 and 2011-2012. My point was that the Spurs have had all their title success without their players "sacrificing" their individual benefit (like salary) for the team.

 

[Natebishop3]

Fair enough. I didn't realize $20 million per season was actually less than the max contract for him.

That said, my point still stands. This extension is for 2010-2011 and 2011-2012. My point was that the Spurs have had all their title success without their players "sacrificing" their individual benefit (like salary) for the team.

You could argue that it didn't hurt them short term, but where are they now? They were ousted in the first round, they have no bench, and they will be in the lurch when TD retires and the team is handed over to Parker. With Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili on the books for the next couple seasons, I don't see them crawling out of this hole until Duncan retires and they get some cap space.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

So I was wondering if KP let something slip here:

You know what? The real truth is that if we haven't done most of the work by now, then we're behind the curve," Pritchard said. "Chad and our scouts have done such a good job of getting us prepared for this timeframe. These workouts are just the icing (on the cake)."

Notice how he said that "These workouts are the icing."

My money is now that he is staying in the draft, and moving up. The question is...who?

I agree we are trying to move up. Why else would we be asking guys at the top of the draft to work out? Aso, hoopsworld had a quote from an unnamed NBA executive that Portland was trying to trade up.

It seems that our biggest need is PG, and also seems the most difficult position to fill by trade or free agency (maybe KP doesn't really like Sessions that much). Since we already have PG prospects like Bayless and Koponnen, I think that KP would be trying to move way up, maybe Rubio. Another possibility that Fez recently brought up is Brandon Jennings. I have been reading up on him and he actually seems to have a great attitude since he went to Europe (has become much more team oriented and is apparently hardworking and very coachable. Combined with his youth, tremendous speed and reputed very good court vision; could he be the guy we are targeting? His draft stock has fallen, I guess because of his poor shooting in the Euroleague; possibly I also read he decided not to participate in a Reebok Eurocamp, Draftexpress has him at #13 or #14 now.

Obviously neither of those guys would be ready to run a team so either we would have to go with Blake while they were developing or try to get Sessions or Miller. But if KP thinks either is gonna be a star in a couple years, maybe that is the plan.

 

[STOMP]

I agree we are trying to move up. Why else would we be asking guys at the top of the draft to work out?

why wouldn't they? If the general concensus of scouts and management is that they want to trade out of this draft because the talent sucks, why would they want to advertise this opinion to the basketball world? The smart move is to not tip your cards while exploring every opportunity/angle and then act when the option you want is available.

STOMP

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

why wouldn't they? If the general concensus of scouts and management is that they want to trade out of this draft because the talent sucks, why would they want to advertise this opinion to the basketball world? The smart move is to not tip your cards while exploring every opportunity/angle and then act when the option you want is available.

STOMP

If our plan is to trade out of the draft, I don't think that announcing that we want to work out top guys is going to influence the opinion around the league that the talent level is low this year. I do agree with you that it is always a good idea to obfuscate what we are actually trying to do. I tend to think Kp is telling the truth when he says we may trade up, may trade down, or may trade out; I think he is exploring all options.

It is entirely speculation on my part that we might be trying to trade up, however this is a draft heavy in point guards and if we are going to get another young one to develop, it seems now would be the time to do it.

 

[Minstrel]

If our plan is to trade out of the draft, I don't think that announcing that we want to work out top guys is going to influence the opinion around the league that the talent level is low this year.

It may not change the league's opinion on the talent pool, but if you want to trade an asset, you'd prefer people to think you place a high value on it, not a low one, otherwise you'll get lowball offers.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

It may not change the league's opinion on the talent pool, but if you want to trade an asset, you'd prefer people to think you place a high value on it, not a low one, otherwise you'll get lowball offers.

I still don't see how indicating we want to trade up would lead people to think we value our present draft pick at # 24. Irregardless of that (or is it "regardless"?) does anyone have an opinion on Brandon Jennings? Maybe I should have started a new thread...