TRADE Brewin: CHAR waives 2 players

[Sheldon Shape]

Dude. Just because you learned who Bass is this week doesn't mean he's not any good.

Ed O.

When did he say Bass wasn't any good? I think it's pretty clear that Brandon Bass is a pretty insignificant player for any roster in the NBA. He brings some positive things to the table but he's virtually of no significance. Then again it was you who thought the Lakers combo of Luke Walton and Trevor Ariza were good.

 

[shamelessblazer]

I'd definitely go Outlaw/Frye for Wallace. Our defense would improve immensely right away and we'd start playing a lot more zone (Frye is too flat footed and Outlaw doesn't have the IQ), which would benefit Sergio and Rudy a lot in the second unit. Wallace runs the floor better than either of them, but obviously doesn't have the shooting touch. Batum's minutes would take a cut (but are going to anyways). We lose a couple of fan favorites, but they get put in a good position to play larger roles on that team, and it's a low risk money saving move for Charlotte.

Blake/Sergio/Bayless
Roy/Fernandez
Webster/Wallace/Batum
Aldridge/Wallace/Diogu
Oden/Pryzbilla/Lafrentz

we're still stacked

 

[Minstrel]

Blake/Sergio/Bayless
Roy/Fernandez
Webster/Wallace/Batum
Aldridge/Wallace/Diogu
Oden/Pryzbilla/Lafrentz

Gerald Wallace is far better than Martell Webster. Webster is a below-average starter, Wallace is just a tick below star-level. Acquiring Wallace would spell the end of Webster as a starter (except when Wallace is injured, which has happened an unfortunate amount).

 

[PapaG]

You tend to get facts wrong, and you never admit it. Sorry if I doubt that you had any idea who Brandon Bass was before he was mentioned (mentioned because you were criticizing Zach for getting lit up by Dirk, when of course he wasn't guarding Dirk) in a thread about Randolph last week.

Ed O.

The fact that a max player like Zach has to be hidden on defense on a player like Brandon Bass pretty much proved my point. Plus, Zach did guard Nowitzki at points in that game, and Nowitzki won both the stat battle and the game.

Brandon Bass is a very average player who plays smaller than his size. I dunno, seems like a fairly accurate assessment, at least more accurate than thinking he would shore up the Bobcats' rebounding deficiency.

 

[BatumKaboom]

No trades!!!

 

[tlongII]

We don't need squat. We just need to let the cake bake.

 

[anonymous gambler]

Wallace would be very nice- maybe for Pryzbilla, Channing Frye and a number one pick? They get a good defensive center at a nice contract, a decent power forward and a prospect. We lose some frontcourt depth- but maybe can bring Freeland in the future or sign someone in offseason. Our big three becomes the big four with defense everywhere but the one spot.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Gerald Wallace is far better than Martell Webster. Webster is a below-average starter, Wallace is just a tick below star-level. Acquiring Wallace would spell the end of Webster as a starter (except when Wallace is injured, which has happened an unfortunate amount).

he could be a great energy guy and still get 30 minutes a night, he fits better with the second unit anyways.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Wallace would be very nice- maybe for Pryzbilla, Channing Frye and a number one pick? They get a good defensive center at a nice contract, a decent power forward and a prospect. We lose some frontcourt depth- but maybe can bring Freeland in the future or sign someone in offseason. Our big three becomes the big four with defense everywhere but the one spot.

After seeing the kind of wrecking ball that Przybilla-Oden can be with them rotating in and out over the past week and a half, I'm am flat out opposed to sending Joel anywhere under almost any circumstances (at least for now), unless we are getting a player back that is such a game changer that you'd be a fool to pass it up ... Gerald Wallace is very, very good, but at this point I think he's a hair under that threshold.

 

[andalusian]

Oden has been a god-send for Pryzbilla. He can now play hard every minute he is on the floor and not care about getting fouls. When Joel plays with abandon - he is a great asset. It would be a big mistake to trade him at this point - and as much as I like the idea of GW on the Blazers roster - I would be much happier if we did not lose the Gorilla to bring him in.

 

[SpanishFly]

Oden has been a god-send for Pryzbilla. He can now play hard every minute he is on the floor and not care about getting fouls. When Joel plays with abandon - he is a great asset. It would be a big mistake to trade him at this point - and as much as I like the idea of GW on the Blazers roster - I would be much happier if we did not lose the Gorilla to bring him in.

Totally agree that Pryz-Oden combo is awesome for us, we don't have to rush Greg along and with his injury history we NEED Pryz. No way KP will mess with this, simply NO way.

 

[maxiep]

The fact that a max player like Zach has to be hidden on defense on a player like Brandon Bass pretty much proved my point. Plus, Zach did guard Nowitzki at points in that game, and Nowitzki won both the stat battle and the game.

Brandon Bass is a very average player who plays smaller than his size. I dunno, seems like a fairly accurate assessment, at least more accurate than thinking he would shore up the Bobcats' rebounding deficiency.

I hate to bring this up, but while Zach Randolph was signed to a large contract, it wasn't a max contract. Andrei Kirilenko and Pau Gasol were signed to max deals that year, not Zach. Furthermore, 30% of his contract was deferred to annual payments in years 7-16. On a NPV basis, his contract was built to mirror Richard Jefferson's.--six years, $77MM. A max deal from that year would have been 6 years, $92MM.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Why not Blake-Frye-Outlaw?
It opens up minutes for Sergio, Rudy, Webster, and Batum, and all three of those guys are LB guys. It also improves our defense a lot and we become a much more zone-based team.

 

[Minstrel]

Why not Blake-Frye-Outlaw?
It opens up minutes for Sergio, Rudy, Webster, and Batum, and all three of those guys are LB guys. It also improves our defense a lot and we become a much more zone-based team.

How are they Larry Brown guys? None of them play much defense, Outlaw's basketball IQ isn't terribly high and Frye is not a very tough big man. I'm sure he'd appreciate Frye's attitude and Blake's effort and lack of mental errors, but I wouldn't say that, as a whole, they're players Brown would particularly appreciate.

I don't think Charlotte would be at all interested in that package. Outlaw is the only valuable player, and he's significantly worse than Wallace. Blake and Frye are marginal pieces and it doesn't seem to save Charlotte much money.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

so is the trade not brewin any more?

 

[PapaG]

I hate to bring this up, but while Zach Randolph was signed to a large contract, it wasn't a max contract. Andrei Kirilenko and Pau Gasol were signed to max deals that year, not Zach. Furthermore, 30% of his contract was deferred to annual payments in years 7-16. On a NPV basis, his contract was built to mirror Richard Jefferson's.--six years, $77MM. A max deal from that year would have been 6 years, $92MM.

My bad. I admit fault. Everybody happy?

I still don't think Zach was worth that contract for what he ended up delivering, and that the Blazers were lucky to dump him while Thomas was still running the Knicks. I say that in part because of Zach's injury-hobbled seasons in Portland even further limited his effectiveness, FWIW. He is a very good offensive player and rebounder, however. I'd never take that away from Zach.


As for Brandon Bass...

 

[PapaG]

How are they Larry Brown guys? None of them play much defense, Outlaw's basketball IQ isn't terribly high and Frye is not a very tough big man. I'm sure he'd appreciate Frye's attitude and Blake's effort and lack of mental errors, but I wouldn't say that, as a whole, they're players Brown would particularly appreciate.

I don't think Charlotte would be at all interested in that package. Outlaw is the only valuable player, and he's significantly worse than Wallace. Blake and Frye are marginal pieces and it doesn't seem to save Charlotte much money.

Monty Williams said on the radio that the talk about Travis' low basketball IQ is laughable.

So, exactly why or how does Travis have a low basketball IQ? I keep seeing this opinion used in supposedly factual arguments against him, but I want to know what it is that makes him such a basketball moron.

 

[Minstrel]

So, exactly why or how does Travis have a low basketball IQ? I keep seeing this opinion used in supposedly factual arguments against him, but I want to know what it is that makes him such a basketball moron.

I'm not sure that he's a basketball moron, but his decision-making doesn't seem all that great. He takes ill-advised shots, doesn't pass to the right person or makes poor decisions on defense about when to leave his man. He's improved, though. He just doesn't seem like the "heady" type of player that Larry Brown is supposed to like.

 

[PapaG]

I'm not sure that he's a basketball moron, but his decision-making doesn't seem all that great. He takes ill-advised shots, doesn't pass to the right person or makes poor decisions on defense about when to leave his man. He's improved, though. He just doesn't seem like the "heady" type of player that Larry Brown is supposed to like.

Thanks for clarifying that, but then is it fair to say that Outlaw's basketball IQ is improving? He is passing and assisting these days. Heck, against GS, he had as many assists as Blake, Sergio, and Bayless combined.

I just don't like seeing this tactic used in a merit argument. It's so subjective and unless one is an insider, seems like an insult.

 

[Minstrel]

Thanks for clarifying that, but then is it fair to say that Outlaw's basketball IQ is improving? He is passing and assisting these days. Heck, against GS, he had as many assists as Blake, Sergio, and Bayless combined.

At one time, I thought he played quite out of control. Talented but didn't know what he was doing. He's improved steadily, to the point where I don't expect particularly bad things to happen when he handles the ball (and I expect some impressive scoring plays). So yeah, he's improved a lot and still is. His passing has improved this year, pretty clearly.

Coming into this season, I didn't think he could be a very viable starter due to being something of a ball-stopper. This year, though, he seems to fit into offensive flow better and I could see him as a starter. I think he'd be a better starter than Webster, though Outlaw can actually be an asset off the bench, whereas I'm not sure Webster can be. I don't really see where Webster fits in when he gets back. I'd rather Batum or Outlaw start, with the other coming off the bench (Outlaw brings scoring, Batum brings a defensive stopper).

I just don't like seeing this tactic used in a merit argument. It's so subjective and unless one is an insider, seems like an insult.

Well, there are a number of subjective aspects to basketball analysis. Defense, court vision, decision-making. Hard to get around that. I can understand it being a frustrating thing in that a person can throw it out and there's really no way to prove it or disprove it. Honestly, I don't have it in for anyone on the team. I may be wrong in any of my evaluations, but they're based on what I see.

 

[PapaG]

At one time, I thought he played quite out of control. Talented but didn't know what he was doing. He's improved steadily, to the point where I don't expect particularly bad things to happen when he handles the ball (and I expect some impressive scoring plays). So yeah, he's improved a lot and still is. His passing has improved this year, pretty clearly.

Coming into this season, I didn't think he could be a very viable starter due to being something of a ball-stopper. This year, though, he seems to fit into offensive flow better and I could see him as a starter. I think he'd be a better starter than Webster, though Outlaw can actually be an asset off the bench, whereas I'm not sure Webster can be. I don't really see where Webster fits in when he gets back. I'd rather Batum or Outlaw start, with the other coming off the bench (Outlaw brings scoring, Batum brings a defensive stopper).



Well, there are a number of subjective aspects to basketball analysis. Defense, court vision, decision-making. Hard to get around that. I can understand it being a frustrating thing in that a person can throw it out and there's really no way to prove it or disprove it. Honestly, I don't have it in for anyone on the team. I may be wrong in any of my evaluations, but they're based on what I see.

Frankly, the more we debate, the more I see that what you say above is in line with my thinking. Additionally, if we aren't here for some subjective thought, why are we here? Although one could argue that everything is subjective, by definition.

My take a week ago was that KP is realizing that Martell is not needed on the current roster. I stand by that statement, although I was flamed for it. It is only my opinion.

 

[Minstrel]

My take a week ago was that KP is realizing that Martell is not needed on the current roster. I stand by that statement, although I was flamed for it. It is only my opinion.

Yeah, I don't know what Pritchard is thinking, but I don't really know what Webster's role will be when he returns. I actually hope another team will find him interesting in trade. The more I watch Outlaw this year, the more I want him to stay with the Blazers. He's a pretty silly luxury to have coming off the bench. As a pure scorer, he's probably as good as most team's second or third options.

Of course, Przybilla is also a pretty great luxury to have off the bench once Oden takes over the starting role. As will be Blake, once he becomes the reserve. The team is building an amazing bench concurrently with a great starting unit.

 

[KingSpeed]

After the way we played last night and with Webster waiting in the wings, I don't think KP will be looking to shake up the roster.

 

[PapaG]

After the way we played last night and with Webster waiting in the wings, I don't think KP will be looking to shake up the roster.

I didn't say he would be looking to shape up the roster. I have posted that I think that KP is wondering where Webster fits into this line-up right now.

And Webster body language on the bench showed me a player who is wondering this himself (this is a subjective opinion, for the record).

 

[oldmangrouch]

Monty Williams said on the radio that the talk about Travis' low basketball IQ is laughable.

So, exactly why or how does Travis have a low basketball IQ? I keep seeing this opinion used in supposedly factual arguments against him, but I want to know what it is that makes him such a basketball moron.

Seems I'm a little late to the debate, but I have to throw my 2 pennies in anyway.

Go back and look at last season as a whole. Jones and Frye were in their first Blazer training camp. Travis has spent his entire career here. Jones and Frye stepped right in and grasped Nate's offensive schemes - and Jones at least grasped the defensive scheme. As well as Travis played last year, there were still stretches when he looked lost on the court. There were even more stretches where he seemed to have acute tunnel vision.

When it comes to the Travis/Webster debate, I have made it clear I am pro-Travis. I appreciate the positive things he brings to this team. At the same time, there is no denying that he struggles to "get it" sometimes. He doesn't appear to be lazy - so there has to be something else wrong there.

Ironically, I would say Webster has much the same flaw....people just don't bring it up as much.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Yeah, I don't know what Pritchard is thinking, but I don't really know what Webster's role will be when he returns. I actually hope another team will find him interesting in trade. The more I watch Outlaw this year, the more I want him to stay with the Blazers. He's a pretty silly luxury to have coming off the bench. As a pure scorer, he's probably as good as most team's second or third options.

Of course, Przybilla is also a pretty great luxury to have off the bench once Oden takes over the starting role. As will be Blake, once he becomes the reserve. The team is building an amazing bench concurrently with a great starting unit.

As long as Travis keeps up this fairly recent rebounding (5.2/game) and defensive minded game (as limited as his defensive awareness seems to be at times) I think he's rounding into exactly the kind of player we're going to wish we had if they end up shipping him off. I wonder who else besides Brandon (maybe Rudy in time) will show a reliable ability to get their shot off whenever they want. Hell he's already averaging 3.2 three point attempts per game and hitting at pretty goddamn good rate ... enough to almost make you wonder if Martell hasn't become really superfluous in the past 3 weeks?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Travis is certainly changing my mind. He could be this teams longterm backup at PF and some SF.

I think with the way Outlaw and Batum are playing, Webster will be on his way out.

 

[Minstrel]

I wonder who else besides Brandon (maybe Rudy in time) will show a reliable ability to get their shot off whenever they want.

Bayless seems to have the potential. Aldridge might, since he'll be playing the high post, so harder to double him to take the ball out of his hands (like low post players can be).

enough to almost make you wonder if Martell hasn't become really superfluous in the past 3 weeks?

Unless Webster can show more talents than shooting open jumpers, he'll be obsolete around players who can both shoot and bring other positive qualities.

 

[Ed O]

It's tough to tell sometimes when perception defines opinion, or vice versa.

I saw something the other night that made me wonder that.

Blazers foul. Two shots. The first free throw goes up, and Travis (on the low block position) blocks his guy out. Hard.

Everyone else is still. Because it's a dead ball. Outlaw stuck out, to me, as someone who just wasn't paying attention.

Is he dense on the court? Maybe. Or maybe if someone has that impression of him, they will see insignificant items like that as proof, when it's nothing of the sort.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

It's tough to tell sometimes when perception defines opinion, or vice versa.

I saw something the other night that made me wonder that.

Blazers foul. Two shots. The first free throw goes up, and Travis (on the low block position) blocks his guy out. Hard.

Everyone else is still. Because it's a dead ball. Outlaw stuck out, to me, as someone who just wasn't paying attention.

Is he dense on the court? Maybe. Or maybe if someone has that impression of him, they will see insignificant items like that as proof, when it's nothing of the sort.

Ed O.

Nice anecdote. Show me the video and then we can judge this latest criticism of Outlaw, "insignificant" as you claim it to be. You noticed it. Expand on it.