Trade Ideas Thread (6 Viewers)

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Scalma said:
You’re the same guy that at one point didn’t think a protected first was enough for Oubre, so I’m not surprised that you’d be overrating another wing with physical tools and limited production. Wings are valued because there are so few impact ones, not because teams go out of their way to acquire them.

And he was only “solid” because of his age. Compared to the rest of the league, he was still a below average starter. His PER, among shooting guards with at least 20mpg, was good for 26th.
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1.) I used to think his potential was higher.
2.) PER doesnt value defense, so you're cherry-picking that stat so that you dont have to account for his good defense.
3.) He would've had a bigger role on a worse team, and that would've likely resulted in a higher PER.
 
BonesJones said:
1.) I used to think his potential was higher.
2.) PER doesnt value defense, so you're cherry-picking that stat so that you dont have to account for his good defense.
3.) He would've had a bigger role on a worse team, and that would've likely resulted in a higher PER.
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There really is no stat to accurately judge an individuals defensive abilities so it’s hard to **objectively* have a debate about it. For example, Kawhi is ranked outside the top 30 in DRPM and DRTG. It’s not me cherry picking. It’s me realizing it’s flawed.

Subjectively we can go in circles, but I’d rather not.
 
Scalma said:
There really is no stat to accurately judge an individuals defensive abilities so it’s hard to **objectively* have a debate about it. For example, Kawhi is ranked outside the top 30 in DRPM and DRTG. It’s not me cherry picking. It’s me realizing it’s flawed.

Subjectively we can go in circles, but I’d rather not.
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Which is why I like DBPM, and account for the fact that bigs usually have bigger swings in that's stat then wings. While imperfect, it's the best thing we can go off of unless we watch more than 50% of the player's games. PER, however, is a more flawed stat than any other 'advanced stat'. It shouldnt even be considered one.
 
BonesJones said:
Which is why I like DBPM, and account for the fact that bigs usually have bigger swings in that's stat then wings. While imperfect, it's the best thing we can go off of unless we watch more than 50% of the player's games. PER, however, is a more flawed stat than any other 'advanced stat'. It shouldnt even be considered one.
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Every defensive metric has flaws because so much of defense relies on surrounding factors and things that can’t be measured by stats. Offense is much easier to quantify. And there’s nothing wrong with using PER to judge players that see consistent minutes. It doesn’t let me down nearly as much as some of the other ones.
 
The more I think about it, the more I come around on the idea of dumping a contract by using our pick. The freedom is worth it.
 
Scalma said:
The more I think about it, the more I come around on the idea of dumping a contract by using our pick. The freedom is worth it.
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Yup. I think that the difference between the tax-payer MLE and the MLE, BAE, and the freedom to make sign-and-trades is more likely to be more impactful than drafting another player in the 20s. Sure, you could get a Kuzma or Hart or Jarrett Allen, but you could also get a Caleb Swanigan. We don't really have the minutes to develop players, and given our position, I'd probably trade a 1st to dump Turner at this point.
 
Scalma said:
Every defensive metric has flaws because so much of defense relies on surrounding factors and things that can’t be measured by stats. Offense is much easier to quantify. And there’s nothing wrong with using PER to judge players that see consistent minutes. It doesn’t let me down nearly as much as some of the other ones.
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But wouldn't you think Porter and Oubre were as close to having the same surrounding circumstances as possible? From my experience, BPM has been much more accurate than PER, but that's just my opinion.
 
Scalma said:
I don’t know I’m bored, where’s Neil
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Looking around the league, if we wanted to dump a contract using a first, Jabari and Chicago represent maybe our only chance. Bartlestein is tight with Olshey and speaks fondly about the Blazers. He would facilitate it knowing he’d be sending his client to an ideal refuge for throwaways. He’s going to send him where he has the best chance to rebuild his value. Bulls also did business with Olshey last year.
 
Scalma said:
Looking around the league, if we wanted to dump a contract using a first, Jabari and Chicago represent maybe our only chance. Bartlestein is tight with Olshey and speaks fondly about the Blazers. He would facilitate it knowing he’d be sending his client to an ideal refuge for throwaways. He’s going to send him where he has the best chance to rebuild his value. Bulls also did business with Olshey last year.
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On one hand I have to give you props for keeping up the good fight and posting these ideas day in and day out but on the other hand I have to say you are just a glutton for punishment. POR has given zero indication that they are willing to use a pick to get rid of one of their big contracts. I think that is even a less of a possibility then it was (if it ever was, which I don't think it to be true) with the ownership situation as it is currently. This team isn't going to be sold until next summer (not this coming summer) imo and the team wants to keep those picks and just let the new owner start fresh (since those big contracts come off the books then). For now, they are making money and don't have a big urge to please the vocal minority to make a big change. Until they stop making money you aren't going to see any urgency.
 
Portland Out: Leonard, Harkless, Baldwin, 2019 1st, 2nd rounders.
Portland In: Otto Porter, Jeff Green

Chicago In: Leonard, Harkless, Blazers 1st
Chicago Out: Parker

Washington In: Parker, Baldwin
Washington Out: Porter, Green

Chicago gets a 1st round pick to help their rebuild, and 2 younger veterans that won't hurt their tanking, but will still help in the not encouraging bad habits by having incompetent players on the court. They have very little salary next season, will be 20-30 million below the salary floor, and are very unlikely to be a free agent destination in their current state. They'll then have 2 larger expirings to look to swap out next year for more potential assets, versus letting Parker walk for nothing.

Washington is probably unlikely, but that team is a mess, and they're not in good shape to get it right. they have 91 million dollars owed to Beal, Wall and Porter next season. Another 15 to Mahinmi. And they're not good. Moving Porter for an expiring and 2nds isn't ideal. I don't know what offers they're looking at, but Parker can still play some, so it's not like they get nothing for Porter. And next year, their cap would drop to 89 milli0n, which immediately shifts them from awful cap situation to, still ugly, but 20 million under the projected 109 million dollar cap. They can split their space on role players that fit around their 2 guards, or they can look to further build around just beal by dumping Wall in a follow up trade. Added bonus, they get out of the tax this season, by shedding 6ish million in salary. Go from payers to getting a check for 3 million at the end of the year. Every owner loves that.

Portland trades 2 iffy rotation players for a big upgrade at the starting 3 spot. Porter hasw a big contract, but he has a player option in 2 years. While he'd be leaving a lot on the table, he'd also be hitting 27, and might feel opting out and securing a bigger, or longer deal was more beneficial, so long term impact might not be brutal on the Blazers.
Lillard/Curry
CJ/Stauskus
Porter/Turner
Aminu/Layman
Nurk/Collins

I think they go 9 man rotation in tougher games, with Porter getting all of the backup 4 minutes.
 
Bulls to Jazz: J Parker 20m
Jazz to Blazers: D Favors 16.9m
Blazers to Bulls: E Turner 17.9m

Stir in draft picks to taste.
 
RR7 said:
Portland Out: Leonard, Harkless, Baldwin, 2019 1st, 2nd rounders.
Portland In: Otto Porter, Jeff Green

Chicago In: Leonard, Harkless, Blazers 1st
Chicago Out: Parker

Washington In: Parker, Baldwin
Washington Out: Porter, Green

Chicago gets a 1st round pick to help their rebuild, and 2 younger veterans that won't hurt their tanking, but will still help in the not encouraging bad habits by having incompetent players on the court. They have very little salary next season, will be 20-30 million below the salary floor, and are very unlikely to be a free agent destination in their current state. They'll then have 2 larger expirings to look to swap out next year for more potential assets, versus letting Parker walk for nothing.

Washington is probably unlikely, but that team is a mess, and they're not in good shape to get it right. they have 91 million dollars owed to Beal, Wall and Porter next season. Another 15 to Mahinmi. And they're not good. Moving Porter for an expiring and 2nds isn't ideal. I don't know what offers they're looking at, but Parker can still play some, so it's not like they get nothing for Porter. And next year, their cap would drop to 89 milli0n, which immediately shifts them from awful cap situation to, still ugly, but 20 million under the projected 109 million dollar cap. They can split their space on role players that fit around their 2 guards, or they can look to further build around just beal by dumping Wall in a follow up trade. Added bonus, they get out of the tax this season, by shedding 6ish million in salary. Go from payers to getting a check for 3 million at the end of the year. Every owner loves that.

Portland trades 2 iffy rotation players for a big upgrade at the starting 3 spot. Porter hasw a big contract, but he has a player option in 2 years. While he'd be leaving a lot on the table, he'd also be hitting 27, and might feel opting out and securing a bigger, or longer deal was more beneficial, so long term impact might not be brutal on the Blazers.
Lillard/Curry
CJ/Stauskus
Porter/Turner
Aminu/Layman
Nurk/Collins

I think they go 9 man rotation in tougher games, with Porter getting all of the backup 4 minutes.
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I still highly doubt Washington would dump Porter for nothing, which is essentially what they'd be doing here. Parker has no value at this point given how bad he's been in Chicago, and Sacramento has interest in Porter and would probably offer the ability for Washington to get under the tax, as well as Bogdanovic and Randolph, which is a better player package than Parker. This trade makes sense for Chicago and us though.
 
yuyuza1 said:
I don't understand what WAS just did. Oubre is better than Ariza. I get the long term salary fears, but this is just incompetent.
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Ehhh, Ariza is a much better defender and more efficient than Oubre. And they needed another vet in that locker room.
 
I still think these are great ideas that I posted in the Parker thread. Copying them here.

IDEA 1 - Most realistic
CHI Gets: Evan Turner, Ben McLemore, 2019 POR 1st
SAC Gets: Jabari Parker
POR Gets: Kosta Kofous, 2019 CHI 2nd, $9.2M TPE (Turner)

IDEA 2 - A different version, better for us:
CHI Gets: Evan Turner, Meyers Leonard, 2019 POR 1st
SAC Gets: Jabari Parker, Cam Payne, Caleb Swanigan
POR Gets: Kosta Kofous, Ben McLemore, $17.9M TPE (Evan Turner)

In both, Sacremento gets Parker for unwanted/unneeded vets.
Chicago takes on salary with a 1st.
Portland dumps salary for a 1st and gets back Kofous.

After Idea 2, going into the off-season you'd have a projected starting lineup of Dame/CJ/Moe/Zach/Nurk and have Simons & Trent on the bench. We'd also finally have flexibility again. Depending on how free agency went, you'd have a choice between:
-$13M in cap space, an option to trade Moe for $24M in space & Moe+Nurk for $35.5M in space (Cousins?), as well as the room-exception.
-No cap space but the Full MLE, BAE, $18M TPE for another few months, & ability to make sign-and-trades. The MLE, BAE, or sign-and-trade would hard cap us so we couldn't go more than $26M over the cap (It'd likely limit how much we could acquire with the TPE).

Either way, we'd be able to improve our team tremendously.
 
I would do CJ for Ingram + one of Kuzma and Hart in a heartbeat. Olshey would not agree to this in a million years though.
 
I’d be wary of dumping salaries this year for picks. It won’t help us much next season as we aren’t likely to be good then either. We will have a ton of expiring deals next year which we could use to acquire players on longer term deals who are available because their teams struggle to create any cap space. E.g. Kings this year are able to trade Zach Randolph and Ben McLemore for Otto Porter which has been heavily rumored lately. It’d be risk worth taking for them because they usually cannot acquire good players in free agency and Porter could be a good buy long term. We will be able to make similar moves next season with our expiring deals.
 
Seriously, when was the last time the Blazers were mentioned in trade talks or any rumors?? It feels like years ! You hear absolutely fucking nothing about the Blazers. God i hate olshey so much. How can this loser still have a job??? I don't get it
 
Sarni said:
I would do CJ for Ingram + one of Kuzma and Hart in a heartbeat. Olshey would not agree to this in a million years though.
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A line up of Dame, Hart, Ingram, Zach and Nurk would be scary for opponents on both ends of the floor. I also think CJ is a great second scorer to go with LeBron.
 
Sarni said:
I’d be wary of dumping salaries this year for picks. It won’t help us much next season as we aren’t likely to be good then either. We will have a ton of expiring deals next year which we could use to acquire players on longer term deals who are available because their teams struggle to create any cap space. E.g. Kings this year are able to trade Zach Randolph and Ben McLemore for Otto Porter which has been heavily rumored lately. It’d be risk worth taking for them because they usually cannot acquire good players in free agency and Porter could be a good buy long term. We will be able to make similar moves next season with our expiring deals.
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The problem is next year there will be a lot of teams with big expiring contracts (all the ones from 2016). This year the big expiring contracts are worth a little more, in my opinion. Plus Sacramento is the only team with significant cap space to help in deals too.
 
Labinot41 said:
Seriously, when was the last time the Blazers were mentioned in trade talks or any rumors?? It feels like years ! You hear absolutely fucking nothing about the Blazers. God i hate olshey so much. How can this loser still have a job??? I don't get it
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The summer of 2017 they definitely tried to get PG13 and Melo. I can't stand when people assume that because there aren't tons of rumors that someone isn't doing their job.

I know they are stuck in the same position as the previous few years but making the playoffs 5 straight years in the Western Conference is not being a "loser".
 
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Sarni said:
I would do CJ for Ingram + one of Kuzma and Hart in a heartbeat. Olshey would not agree to this in a million years though.
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He would do that in a heart beat because he would also save 17 million in cap space in the process.
 
I don’t think the Lakers would trade Hart AND Ingram. More likely that they toss us their first, along with Ingram. And yes, Portland SHOULD be all over it.
 
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