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Buffalo Custard said:
I wish I could be a fly on the wall to listen in on what other GMs really think about CJ's trade value. I have a feeling Blazer fans would be disappointed.
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Yeah, it's hard to say because bucket getters on CJ's level are hard to find, his handle is sick, he has never been afforded the chance to be matched up against guys his size on either end of the court (when he has during Dame's brief injury problems he's been brilliant), he says all of the things that would make you think he's a really high character guy and I wonder if GMs just think he's never been held accountable for his shortcomings so therefore there is room for growth. On the other hand at SG CJ is a terrible defender and that can't be overstated, he also has been quite the ball hog. I would also like to know what other GMs think of him but I don't think I would be disappointed because I think he's a terrible fit next to Dame and with the emergence of Gary I would just want an under thirty year old 3 and D SF who wouldn't have to be half the scorer CJ is just a big time role player. Although, I think we might be able to get Khris Middleton for CJ and picks or Josh Richardson, Tobias Harris and a pick for CJ and Ariza. Those are the moves I would be targeting. Teams that have the specific need of a back court scorer and have a ton of defensive specialists to surround him with. I don't know about Milwaukee but given Elton Brand's reported past interest in CJ, I think the Philly trade is more than realistic.

All of this may be a moot point because we all know what Neil thinks of him and we all know that his valuation of CJ (which may be all that matters) is ridiculously inflated.
 
blazerkor said:
OK, I guess after making a $250 million in his career I guess I can see that. I just haven't heard that out of him. I'll just have to wait and see but you make an excellent point.
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I think you have to ask what you think his motivations are at this point in his career.

He was completely out of the league a year ago. We gave him a chance to not only come back, but to start and show that he can still play. I think he's extremely grateful for that. I think he appreciates Dame and CJ and Terry. I think he likes Portland. I think he likes our scheme.

So if he decided to leave, what would be the motivation?
Money? I don't think so. It wouldn't be enough money to really make it worth it. A couple more million wouldn't be enough considering I can't see him playing another year or two at most.
Playing time? I don't know if anyone else could offer him what we can.
Scheme? I'm not sure anyone else runs a scheme that fits him better. OKC and Houston tried to put him in the corner and shoot threes.

The only thing that could pull him away would be going back east. He probably wants to be closer to his family. So if an East Coast team offered him what we're offering, I could see him leave.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I think you have to ask what you think his motivations are at this point in his career.

He was completely out of the league a year ago. We gave him a chance to not only come back, but to start and show that he can still play. I think he's extremely grateful for that. I think he appreciates Dame and CJ and Terry. I think he likes Portland. I think he likes our scheme.

So if he decided to leave, what would be the motivation?
Money? I don't think so. It wouldn't be enough money to really make it worth it. A couple more million wouldn't be enough considering I can't see him playing another year or two at most.
Playing time? I don't know if anyone else could offer him what we can.
Scheme? I'm not sure anyone else runs a scheme that fits him better. OKC and Houston tried to put him in the corner and shoot threes.

The only thing that could pull him away would be going back east. He probably wants to be closer to his family. So if an East Coast team offered him what we're offering, I could see him leave.
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Do you think he gets a guarantee to start over Ariza and/or Zach? Do you think he would be OK if we gave him a key bench role?
 
Buffalo Custard said:
I wish I could be a fly on the wall to listen in on what other GMs really think about CJ's trade value. I have a feeling Blazer fans would be disappointed.
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I bet it totally depends on the GM. GMs disagree about the value of particular players about as much as fans do. Guarantee you some GM (even other than Olshey) thinks he's great, and I bet there's more than a few that thinks he'd be an all-star in the East.

Bad contracts happen for a reason...
 
I think CJ's trade value now is as high as it has been because he can create a shot and has proven that giving the opportunity to play through him he can be lethal. I also believe that Neil would pull the trigger now on a trade that would bring us a solid 3/4 that could score and defend. He knows his value probably is probably at a high so he will like any GM entertain trades.
 
blazerkor said:
Do you think he gets a guarantee to start over Ariza and/or Zach? Do you think he would be OK if we gave him a key bench role?
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I'm not convinced that Ariza will be back. I think it really depends on how healthy Hood is.
 
blazerkor said:
Yeah, it's hard to say because bucket getters on CJ's level are hard to find, his handle is sick, he has never been afforded the chance to be matched up against guys his size on either end of the court (when he has during Dame's brief injury problems he's been brilliant), he says all of the things that would make you think he's a really high character guy and I wonder if GMs just think he's never been held accountable for his shortcomings so therefore there is room for growth. On the other hand at SG CJ is a terrible defender and that can't be overstated, he also has been quite the ball hog. I would also like to know what other GMs think of him but I don't think I would be disappointed because I think he's a terrible fit next to Dame and with the emergence of Gary I would just want an under thirty year old 3 and D SF who wouldn't have to be half the scorer CJ is just a big time role player. Although, I think we might be able to get Khris Middleton for CJ and picks or Josh Richardson, Tobias Harris and a pick for CJ and Ariza. Those are the moves I would be targeting. Teams that have the specific need of a back court scorer and have a ton of defensive specialists to surround him with. I don't know about Milwaukee but given Elton Brand's reported past interest in CJ, I think the Philly trade is more than realistic.

All of this may be a moot point because we all know what Neil thinks of him and we all know that his valuation of CJ (which may be all that matters) is ridiculously inflated.
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So. CJ's stats without Lillard are going up significantly. It's like 30/8/7 (?)
It would be much easier to get Gannis for Lillard and pair him with CJ.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
View attachment 33448

Meh... :dunno:
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might be a step back IMHO, unless salary is the major reason by breaking CJ's large contract into a more tradeable form in two smaller ones. with Issacs out for next season, the likelyhood of a Gordon trade has dininished i would think. maybe at the deadline. they will still be paying vucevic big money as well as fournier probably opts in IMHO., i think the playoffs are their target again next season. i really only see gordan as an upgrade for our team if CJ remains on it or goes out in another primary asset acquisition move. swap out fournier for ross and it gets more interesting.

edit with fournier and ariza on the books at the deadline, the blazers would have a near max offer of expirings to package with young assets and picks for a clear upgrade if it was to come available.
 
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royo said:
So. CJ's stats without Lillard are going up significantly. It's like 30/8/7 (?)
It would be much easier to get Gannis for Lillard and pair him with CJ.
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Yeah, I don't think the Bucks would do Giannis for Dame without a lot more compensation (like first rounders) due to Giannis being five years younger and the best player in the game. I know as a Blazers fan I wouldn't do Giannis for Dame unless it was straight up and I had some kind of guarantee that Giannis was re-signing which I wouldn't get. So forget the Giannis for Dame talk.

CJ's stats without Lillard haven't been 30/8/7... I don't even think CJ has ever had a game that was that good all around. I'm saying when CJ has been the primary perimeter scorer and played at his natural position he has performed better. I could get you the stats but I just don't want to... if you haven't been watching the games that's not my fault. CJ is a bucket getter and he can pass when he wants to. I think on Milwaukee or on Philly CJ could get at least 24 a night with maybe 4 assists and 4 rebounds and shitty defense... that's just what I think. The thing about both Milwaukee and Philly is that they have fantastic defenses so CJ would get covered for and they both need a big time bucket getter which CJ is. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other team that really needs someone like CJ and has pieces that would interest us but I'm sure there are one or two other situations that could work.

What's unfortunate is that none of this matters because Neil overvalues CJ by such a wide margin that we'll probably be stuck with two guys in Dame and CJ that could do a lot better if they were playing with a guy next to them in the back court that complemented them better. The craziest part is that we have a guy like that on the roster right now in Gary and that should make CJ far more expendable.
 
Hoopguru said:
I think CJ's trade value now is as high as it has been because he can create a shot and has proven that giving the opportunity to play through him he can be lethal. I also believe that Neil would pull the trigger now on a trade that would bring us a solid 3/4 that could score and defend. He knows his value probably is probably at a high so he will like any GM entertain trades.
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I hope you're right... that would be great. I really think we could get Middleton for CJ and a first rounder. I also think we could get Richardson, Harris and a first rounder from Philly for CJ and Ariza. Both of those trades would make our team a lot more cohesive offensively and make us much better defensively.
 
Feels like an overpay for Gordon. Id do expiring and 16. Maybe another piece.
 
blazerkor said:
I hope you're right... that would be great. I really think we could get Middleton for CJ and a first rounder. I also think we could get Richardson, Harris and a first rounder from Philly for CJ and Ariza. Both of those trades would make our team a lot more cohesive offensively and make us much better defensively.
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Harris and Richardson would be super additions.
 
For a “win now” trade, I’m liking:

CJ + Collins + Simons
to NOLA for:
Jrue Holiday and JJ Reddick + good pick

then we focus upon a forward - how about

Ariza + Trade exception + our #1 (selection 16) for Aaron Gordon

Guards:
Dame + JJ Reddick + vet
Jrue + Gary T

Forwards:
Hood + Little + Hoard
Gordon + Melo + Gabriel
(try luring a vet swing forward tough guy)

Bigs:
Nurkic + Whiteside
 
blazerkor said:
Yeah, I don't think the Bucks would do Giannis for Dame without a lot more compensation (like first rounders) due to Giannis being five years younger and the best player in the game. I know as a Blazers fan I wouldn't do Giannis for Dame unless it was straight up and I had some kind of guarantee that Giannis was re-signing which I wouldn't get. So forget the Giannis for Dame talk.

CJ's stats without Lillard haven't been 30/8/7... I don't even think CJ has ever had a game that was that good all around. I'm saying when CJ has been the primary perimeter scorer and played at his natural position he has performed better. I could get you the stats but I just don't want to... if you haven't been watching the games that's not my fault. CJ is a bucket getter and he can pass when he wants to. I think on Milwaukee or on Philly CJ could get at least 24 a night with maybe 4 assists and 4 rebounds and shitty defense... that's just what I think. The thing about both Milwaukee and Philly is that they have fantastic defenses so CJ would get covered for and they both need a big time bucket getter which CJ is. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other team that really needs someone like CJ and has pieces that would interest us but I'm sure there are one or two other situations that could work.

What's unfortunate is that none of this matters because Neil overvalues CJ by such a wide margin that we'll probably be stuck with two guys in Dame and CJ that could do a lot better if they were playing with a guy next to them in the back court that complemented them better. The craziest part is that we have a guy like that on the roster right now in Gary and that should make CJ far more expendable.
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I was thinking outside the box. I'm sure it's not going to happen but switching one star for another... You know, it just basketball.

From net: "For the second straight game without his backcourt partner running the show, McCollum struck an impressive balance between facilitator and his more typical fearless shotmaker. In two games with Lillard out of the lineup, McCollum is averaging 34.0 PTS, 7.5 reb, 11.0 as."

"In the six games, he averaged 33.3 points, 8.3 assists and 5.3 rebounds, numbers that exceed Lillard’s season averages (28.7 points, 7.7 assists and 4.2 rebounds). McCollum shot 48.4 percent from the field and 40.6 percent on 3-point shots"
;)
 
Natebishop3 said:
I'm not convinced that Ariza will be back. I think it really depends on how healthy Hood is.
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I dont see why these are related. A decision on Ariza is likely made prior to training camp. Hoods productivity won't be known until well into the season. There is also plenty of room for both to get minutes if they provide value on the court.

I suspect Hood won't provide value beyond a rotational player any longer.

Ariza may not be on the roster for legal, PR, salary, trade, etc reason's.
 
RR7 said:
Feels like an overpay for Gordon. Id do expiring and 16. Maybe another piece.
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Even that's a massive overpay. Why in the world would we want a PF who shoots 43% from the field, 30% from 3, who's an average to below-average defender, and who would be even worse in a slow-paced offense?
 
BonesJones said:
Even that's a massive overpay. Why in the world would we want a PF who shoots 43% from the field, 30% from 3, who's an average to below-average defender, and who would be even worse in a slow-paced offense?
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You and I both know that when players, not all but most of them, come here they improve their 3 point shooting. First example is Al Farouq Aminu, who before he came to Portland was essentially a 27% 3 point shooter, but during his time in Portland he became a 35% 3 point shooter. Second example Mo Harkless, he was a 30.9% 3 point shooter but over the course of his time in Portland became a 33% 3 point shooter, he even had a season where he shot 41.5%. Carmelo Anthony had his best 3 point shooting since 2013/14 season. You get the idea, Dame and cj are so good that they open up shots for others. Aaron Gordon last season shot nearly 35%, so I truly believe that he would improve as a shooter here. His form look better that Harkless and Aminu. And his defense at PF is better than anything we had this season. At the end an expiring, 16th (what rookies is gonna make an immediate impact anyway), and possibly another young player is a fair deal. And he got a great chance to become our answer at the 4!
 
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