Zombie Trading CJ

[Denny Crane]

ever heard of Joe Dumars and Isaiah Thomas?

I didn't say impossible.

 

[mook]

The thing about Cleveland is that they have Triston Thompson too. A completely different type of PF. So they have options. (We have Crabbe) So they have versatility and depth in case of injuries. And injuries almost always occur. Kind of wish we kept Moses even though we had Bill. But even though Damian may never have a career or even season ending injury, what about the wear and tear we have seen him get playing big minutes the last few years? It takes a toll mentally and physically. I think it would be nice to have the luxury of having two guards who can be "the man" on any given night. Especially when one of them is having a bad night.

Yes, Love and Thompson are good. But imagine how terrifying the Cavs would be if they had a similar level of talent at a complimentary position. If they could swap Love for Dwight Howard they'd destroy teams.

Maybe the Bulls should have traded Scottie Pippen for Clyde Drexler. then they'd have the security of knowing if Jordan got injured playing all those minutes they'd enjoy the luxury of having two guards who can be "the man" on any given night.

Maybe the mid-2000 Spurs should have traded Tony Parker for a quality backup power forward, so they'd have two forwards who can be "the man" on any given night.

When you apply the logic of keeping both Lillard and CJ to past championship teams it seems ludicrous. Because it is.

 

[e_blazer]

Here's a list of the top scoring 2 guards in the league:

I get that CJ's not one of the taller guys at his position, but he's taller than Lou Williams and Monta Ellis, as tall as Wade, Gordon, Reddick, Oladipo, & Harris, and within an inch of Harden, Afflalo, and Matthews. In his first year as a starter he's 4th on the list of scorers from his position, only 2 guys on this list shoot better than he does from 3, he can create off the dribble and has a great mid-range game. Unless we can get a proven front court scorer who's not a perpetual problem child (yes, I'm talking about you, Boogie), I think the Blazers would be nuts to trade CJ.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Yes, Love and Thompson are good. But imagine how terrifying the Cavs would be if they had a similar level of talent at a complimentary position. If they could swap Love for Dwight Howard they'd destroy teams.

Maybe the Bulls should have traded Scottie Pippen for Clyde Drexler. then they'd have the security of knowing if Jordan got injured playing all those minutes they'd enjoy the luxury of having two guards who can be "the man" on any given night.

Maybe the mid-2000 Spurs should have traded Tony Parker for a quality backup power forward, so they'd have two forwards who can be "the man" on any given night.

When you apply the logic of keeping both Lillard and CJ to past championship teams it seems ludicrous. Because it is.

I am not saying we should trade anyone. You are. I agree the examples you gave would have been ludicrous, and I am thinking trading either CJ or Dame just might be as well. They can play together AND they can carry a team if an injury occurs. In any case I think we should give it some time to play out and know for sure.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

CJ has grown in all areas (including physical height but perhaps even more importantly defensively). I think him and Dame in the backcourt is not near the problem that we thought it would be now. Neither are lock-down defenders of course but teams (outside of PHX) also aren't normally abusing them when we are back on D and we are abusing them on the other end.

 

[Blazinaway]

CJ has grown in all areas (including physical height but perhaps even more importantly defensively). I think him and Dame in the backcourt is not near the problem that we thought it would be now. Neither are lock-down defenders of course but teams (outside of PHX) also aren't normally abusing them when we are back on D and we are abusing them on the other end.

perhaps the biggest "problem" is paying two similar guards max contracts which CJ very well may command if this keeps up, and the max keeps going up with the capspace next year. We could have $50 mil committed to two guards - can we afford to do that and assemble a good enough cast? Crabbe will get paid this summer as well

 

[RR7]

I don't understand really why them playing similar positions is also a huge negative to some. Are we better off somehow if CJ is 6'8" and plays SF, but otherwise has the exact same game?

 

[HolyBackboard]

Here's a list of the top scoring 2 guards in the league:

I get that CJ's not one of the taller guys at his position, but he's taller than Lou Williams and Monta Ellis, as tall as Wade, Gordon, Reddick, Oladipo, & Harris, and within an inch of Harden, Afflalo, and Matthews. In his first year as a starter he's 4th on the list of scorers from his position, only 2 guys on this list shoot better than he does from 3, he can create off the dribble and has a great mid-range game. Unless we can get a proven front court scorer who's not a perpetual problem child (yes, I'm talking about you, Boogie), I think the Blazers would be nuts to trade CJ.

What stands out at that list is how few attempts at the free throw line McCollum gets and he's still putting up over 20ppg. Once he learns how to get to the stripe with a little more efficiency, he could easily push 23-24ppg.

 

[illmatic99]

What stands out at that list is how few attempts at the free throw line McCollum gets and he's still putting up over 20ppg. Once he learns how to get to the stripe with a little more efficiency, he could easily push 23-24ppg.

Same for Dame. Both need to be attempting at least 6 FTs a game.

That's 3 drawn fouls on shot attempts. Really can't be that hard. Dame's sitting at 5.6 attempts. CJ at 2.8. Considering how many times they go inside and draw contact and how much defensive attention they get, those numbers should be MUCH higher.

 

[BigGameDamian]

DeMar Derozan had 34 points 6 rebounds and 5 assist with 2 steals and 2 blocks last night.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

perhaps the biggest "problem" is paying two similar guards max contracts which CJ very well may command if this keeps up, and the max keeps going up with the capspace next year. We could have $50 mil committed to two guards - can we afford to do that and assemble a good enough cast? Crabbe will get paid this summer as well

Personally I don't see how it matters. To win a championship you usually need 2 MAX guys and 1 near max guy. It doesn't matter what position those are just that they have the talent to backup their contract. I don't think CJ gets new MAX money but he will get old MAX money (which won't look that high anymore) during his next contract.

Paul will pay out the butt if needed provided the team shows it is ready to take the step.

 

[RR7]

DeMar Derozan had 34 points 6 rebounds and 5 assist with 2 steals and 2 blocks last night.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

DeMar Derozan had 34 points 6 rebounds and 5 assist with 2 steals and 2 blocks last night.

Well I had Mexican food last night.

 

[handiman]

I don't understand really why them playing similar positions is also a huge negative to some. Are we better off somehow if CJ is 6'8" and plays SF, but otherwise has the exact same game?

Uh, yes. CJ would be much more of a defensive nuisance if he were 5" taller and the same exact player. Not to mention, his already difficult to contest shot would be impossible to bother. He'd be a better version of Durant at that point.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Personally I don't see how it matters. To win a championship you usually need 2 MAX guys and 1 near max guy. It doesn't matter what position those are just that they have the talent to backup their contract. I don't think CJ gets new MAX money but he will get old MAX money (which won't look that high anymore) during his next contract.

Paul will pay out the butt if needed provided the team shows it is ready to take the step.

I agree. I hope with the salary cap going way up, it will be spread around a little more. Most team's best players don't need or deserve 30 million a year. So use the extra money to give a 3rd guy the "old max".

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Uh, yes. CJ would be much more of a defensive nuisance if he were 5" taller and the same exact player. Not to mention, his already difficult to contest shot would be impossible to bother. He'd be a better version of Durant at that point.

I think his point is that at that point we would be playing him at SF and would be looking for a SG half as good (or hopefully slightly better than that) as CJ again. The SG depth is bad in the NBA currently.

 

[handiman]

I think his point is that at that point we would be playing him at SF and would be looking for a SG half as good (or hopefully slightly better than that) as CJ again.

But we'd have a SF 10x as good. I don't see the point.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think his point is that at that point we would be playing him at SF and would be looking for a SG half as good (or hopefully slightly better than that) as CJ again. The SG depth is bad in the NBA currently.

Allen.

Crabbe.

 

[RR7]

Uh, yes. CJ would be much more of a defensive nuisance if he were 5" taller and the same exact player. Not to mention, his already difficult to contest shot would be impossible to bother. He'd be a better version of Durant at that point.

A better version of Durant? No. He's taller, but the exact same player. You seem to all of a sudden be increasing his abilities. Same guy, but at SF. I don't see why our ball dminant dynamic scoring duo has to specifically be frontcourt backcourt or whatever to be worthewhile.

 

[handiman]

A better version of Durant? No. He's taller, but the exact same player. You seem to all of a sudden be increasing his abilities.

He'd be nearly the same height with very similar, possibly superior, shooting and dribbling skills. And he'd have the extra heft to avoid being pushed around so easily. The only theoretical advantage I see for Durant is getting to the rim.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Right now CJ is producing better than Wes did

Maybe on ONE end of the court...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

On January 14th Tristan Thompson can be traded. You could trade CJ plus Kaman plus Henderson for Thompson. If they throw in the rights to Cedi Osman I'd be tempted. Thompson is not a scorer but he's an elite defender and rebounder.

I bet most people on the board think we can do better, as I've seen people compare Thompson unfavorably to Ed Davis (and if we got Thompson we'd probably have to move Davis). All I know is that LeBron seems to think he's pretty important. And there's this.

 

[Natebishop3]

On January 14th Tristan Thompson can be traded. You could trade CJ plus Kaman plus Henderson for Thompson. If they throw in the rights to Cedi Osman I'd be tempted. Thompson is not a scorer but he's an elite defender and rebounder.

I bet most people on the board think we can do better, as I've seen people compare Thompson unfavorably to Ed Davis (and if we got Thompson we'd probably have to move Davis). All I know is that LeBron seems to think he's pretty important. And there's this.

 

[Denny Crane]

CJ would probably get you both Noah and Taj Gibson from the Bulls in trade. Maybe Gasol instead of either.

I would not do it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

CJ would probably get you both Noah and Taj Gibson from the Bulls in trade. Maybe Gasol instead of either.

I would not do it.

You as a Bulls fan or you as a Blazers fan? You're kind of bifansual.

I wish we could have Noah, but not for CJ. Taj has always struck me as rather meh. Noah has all-world motor and intangibles. Chicago would probably collapse slowly like a souffle if they ever traded him.

 

[Denny Crane]

You as a Bulls fan or you as a Blazers fan? You're kind of bifansual.

I wish we could have Noah, but not for CJ. Taj has always struck me as rather meh. Noah has all-world motor and intangibles. Chicago would probably collapse slowly like a souffle if they ever traded him.

I'm not a bulls fan anymore, but I know their roster and modus operandi well enough.

At this point, Noah is a bench player getting ~20 MPG and is shooting about 40%.

Taj is a solid PF and elite defender and shot blocker. He has a reliable midrange shot and dunks a lot.

Both are older at 30, so I don't see a great fit here.

The Bulls believe their future is Portis and Mirotic at PF/C. They're over the LT threshold and would like to get a shade under while acquiring a wing player with offensive game.

 

[MickZagger]

Portis was such a steal where he landed. Bulls have been one of the best drafting teams the past 10 or so years.

 

[RR7]

It's one thing to suggest trading CJ. It's perfectly reasonable to debate, and the idea has some merits. CJ is just coming into his own, one of only a handful of players putting up 20/4/3 per game. If you're moving CJ, you're selling high on him, getting someone previously unobtainable in a swap. Moving him for a star in a package, or near star, etc. Tristan Thompson? Bobo and Kyle Anderson? Jesus no. Terrible

 

[Pinwheel1]

On January 14th Tristan Thompson can be traded. You could trade CJ plus Kaman plus Henderson for Thompson. If they throw in the rights to Cedi Osman I'd be tempted. Thompson is not a scorer but he's an elite defender and rebounder.

I bet most people on the board think we can do better, as I've seen people compare Thompson unfavorably to Ed Davis (and if we got Thompson we'd probably have to move Davis). All I know is that LeBron seems to think he's pretty important. And there's this.

I think we can always find a PF who can defend....but can't score. Like you said we have Davis......... for half the price. I sure as hell would not include CJ.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]