Zombie Trading CJ (4 Viewers)

[Draco]

It still amazes me that no one in this thread has the balls to ask the right question.

Yeah I had often thought the purely strategic way to get us the most talent in return is trading Lillard.

Just don't see how it is possible being the face of the franchise for only a few months. The team wants to have some stability. CJ and Lillard also are so tight on a personal level there is nothing similar to the OKC Reggie Jackson situation Rasta is trying to fabricate.

Next season we will be rebuilding.

But after that we will be looking at getting ready for the 2017-18 season and Lillard will be 28. If we are still multiple moves from contending it may be time to think about going in a different direction.

The NBA is so very unpredictable long term though. Look at the greats from 5 years ago most of them are scrubs now. No reason to seriously consider a solution to a non existent problem. I'll just enjoy the CJ/Lillard show.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

It still amazes me that no one in this thread has the balls to ask the right question.

The trade Damian thing? Isn't that your idea, someone here wants to do that.

 

[handiman]

The trade Damian thing? Isn't that your idea, someone here wants to do that.

Sort of. It's not so much a "trade Lillard" thing as it is a matter of asking the right question to minimize the chances of ending up with the wrong answer. If you jump straight to "trade CJ" because of the long-term issue of how to manage two such similar players, with their redundant strengths and magnified weaknesses in conjunction, you've missed an important step.

1) Does a trade of either Dame or CJ need to be made in order to produce a successful team?

2) If the answer is yes, then you have to ask which player will bring back the most in a trade and which you can best build around moving forward.

Personally, I think the answer to #2 is pretty unclear right now. The assumption on many people's part that CJ has to be moved before it's too late is just plain foolish, because he may well be the wrong answer to the largely unasked question.

I agree with Draco that we haven't had long enough with CJ in a featured role to know for sure he can be the long-term answer. But, given his steady progression last year, culminating in a spectacular showing against a great Memphis defense, and picking right up this season where he left off, does anyone really have any lingering doubts about the sustainability of this level of play? The one question a few weeks back that I think was a fair counter is whether he can be the team leader that Dame has proven himself to be. My opinion was "yes," but I had no data points to back that up with. Well, CJ has done everything possible to put that concern to rest with his recent play sans Lillard!

 

[riverman]

CJ is legit..I think that you have to get a needle mover to trade him at this point like Paul George. Nobody is untradeable if it's for the right guy..Olshey has shown that in the past.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

If CJ is what he looks to be you don't trade him yet.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

I'd move him to the sixth man role long before trading him.

 

[0-Our!]

I'd move him to the sixth man role long before trading him.

I would love this (he would be murderous off the bench & unquestioned perennial 6th man of the yr. IMO) but... he won't accept going back to the bench, he's gotten a stater role & he'll never mentally accept anything < that role; he'd ask for a trade IF he went to the bench. I think it best to trade him while his value is so high; making a deal for PG or Jimmy Butler (I think it actually might be possible now bc Bulls have some question marks as to how competitive they can be now/in the near future. i.e. I like Portis a lot but strong chance Gasol leaves). I like CJ & his scoring ability & BBIQ r legit but no matter how hard he works, his physical/stamina limitations on defense will always be a glaring weakness for him/us.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Wow, just wow.

You're right - they'd never give us Boban. He just shot 7-7 and scored 17 points in under 15 mins to add to his already league-leading PER.

 

[BonesJones]

A top 6 or 7 SG shouldn't come off the bench. We have another borderline all star and y'all wanna trade him because of this hypothetical problem with playing them together that doesnt really exist.
Last year we wanted to play Blake and Lillard some so Lillard could play off the ball. Now it's the opposite.

Lillards also improved his defense this year, and CJ isn't as bad on that end as people say. I honestly think they're an average defensive backcourt, and if not they'll improve and will be in a couple years. People want to fret about CJ getting posted up, but how often do you get beat because the other teams SG was posting up? Hardly ever.

 

[BonesJones]

Hell I say package Crabbe, Vonleh, filler, picks, and take on Morris' and/or Chandler's contract so we could go get Bledsoe to bring off the bench at PG and SG. We'd have the best backcourt in the league top to bottom.

 

[THE HCP]

Didn't Bledsoe just do a BRoy to his knee?

 

[BonesJones]

Didn't Bledsoe just do a BRoy to his knee?

Exactly now is even we buy low on him. Just as long as he doesnt return in 8 days he'll be fine.

 

[BonesJones]

And for anyone suggesting to trade Lillard, we finally have a HEALTHY superstar that's a great leader, good with the fans and community, bought into the franchise and doesn't want to leave and you guys are suggesting that we trade him. Unbelievable.

 

[STOMP]

Didn't Bledsoe just do a BRoy to his knee?

he tore his meniscus, which Brandon did repeatedly. The usual procedure to correct this is to trim away the torn portion of the cartilage. The problem is when you have no more left to trim & you end up bone on bone. I'm not aware of how Bledsoe is doing in that regard.

STOMP

 

[Haakzilla]

Nope. /

 

[handiman]

And for anyone suggesting to trade Lillard, we finally have a HEALTHY superstar that's a great leader, good with the fans and community, bought in to the franchise and doesn't want to leave and you guys are suggesting that we trade him. Unbelievable.

Ironic that you would post that during the first stretch of games he's missed in his career. But hey, four posts before that you called CJ/Dame an average defensive back court, so I guess anything goes...

Seriously, though, you reiterate everyone's response to the suggestion of trading Dame, but seemingly no one wants to acknowledge that CJ checks all the same boxes currently.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

You're right - they'd never give us Boban. He just shot 7-7 and scored 17 points in under 15 mins to add to his already league-leading PER.

I actually gave him props in another tread. If any team consistently plays the guy 26-28 minutes a game on average though he is going to lose his effectiveness and be out of the league due to injury (probably from the feet up) in no time.

So for CJ yes, it is, wow, just wow. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like him on the team though.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

When Olshey is done wheelin' and dealin' this team is gonna have perfect prototype basketball players at every position with zero weaknesses, super human size and strength, and ridiculous upside. Oh yeah and we need lock down defenders at every position too. Gonna be so sick!

 

[BonesJones]

Ironic that you would post that during the first stretch of games he's missed in his career. But hey, four posts before that you called CJ/Dame an average defensive back court, so I guess anything goes...

Seriously, though, you reiterate everyone's response to the suggestion of trading Dame, but seemingly no one wants to acknowledge that CJ checks all the same boxes currently.

Ironic? Over the course of his career he's been healthy.. Do you not agree because he's missed a couple games recently? And have you not seen how Lillards improved defensively? And do you think CJ is really that bad?

And if CJ checks all the same boxes as Dame then we shouldn't be talking about trading him!

 

[SpamKing]

Tell me this; if the Blazers had two Steph Currys, would you suggest trading one for a better-balanced lineup? I'm not saying that Dame or CJ are Curry-level players (yet), just asking a hypothetical . . .

 

[BonesJones]

Tell me this; if the Blazers had two Steph Currys, would you suggest trading one for a better-balanced lineup? I'm not saying that Dame or CJ are Curry-level players (yet), just asking a hypothetical . . .

No, because having one spot up while the other attacks would be deadly.. Balance is overrated. Get the most talent you can, and develop the players to fit alongside one another.

The only problem is when the only way players can be successful is if they have the ball (I don't think that applies to CJ or Dame). Rondo+Gay+Cousins or Lawson+Harden type deal. Hell, the Clippers suck because Rivers, Crawford, Stephenson, and Smith all suck at playing off the ball

 

[handiman]

Ironic? Over the course of his career he's been healthy.. Do you not agree because he's missed a couple games recently?

You do understand what irony is, right?

And have you not seen how Lillards improved defensively? And do you think CJ is really that bad?

Yes and yes. Lillard has improved to the point of being slightly above awful. CJ is pretty bad, but not as bad as Dame. Their defensive suckiness as a back court tandem is epic.

And if CJ checks all the same boxes as Dame then we shouldn't be talking about trading him!

That was sort of my point...

 

[BonesJones]

You do understand what irony is, right?



Yes and yes. Lillard has improved to the point of being slightly above awful. CJ is pretty bad, but not as bad as Dame. Their defensive suckiness as a back court tandem is epic.



That was sort of my point...

So you used irony in a way to agree with one post while indirectly disagreeing with another post all in the same sentence. Haha

Lillard is an average defender, but people love to look at points scored by the opposing PG and chalk it up to Dame, when in reality, a lot of it is due to our BS pick n roll scheme that we never change in any circumstance. Have you noticed that only certain types of PGs burn us, and theyre always great at mid range pullups? Dragic, Udrih, Burke, Jackson (at least in the one meeting this year).. That's because we give up that mid range jumper as a team out of pick n rolls, not because of Dame.

And CJ is pretty bad? Based on...?

 

[STOMP]

And CJ is pretty bad? Based on...?

He's referring to the defensive half of the game. Besides being undersized (& not very good) at guarding 2s, CJ extremely undersized on defensive switches onto SFs & those happen all the time. Good defensive teams (like the Warriors) have swing players who can guard multiple positions well. Take off the homer glasses, this is obvious

STOMP

 

[BonesJones]

He's referring to the defensive half of the game. Besides being undersized (& not very good) at guarding 2s, CJ extremely undersized on defensive switches onto SFs & those happen all the time. Good defensive teams (like the Warriors) have swing players who can guard multiple positions well. Take off the homer glasses, this is obvious

STOMP

That's what I meant. And that just means you always matchup CJ with a PG/SG. That's simple. If he does end up in a bigger SF that can actually take advantage then you double and rotate. And he's maybe an inch shorter than your average SG, which isn't a big deal.

McCollum, Bradley Beal, Victor Olidipo, Eric Gordon, Dwayne Wade, James Harden, JJ Redick, Monta Ellis and Wesley Matthews are all 6'4 or 6'5...

 

[BonesJones]

Hell, so is Arron Afflalo, Caldwell-Pope, Courtney Lee, Marco Bellinelli, Iman Shumpert, and Jordan Clarkson. That's half of the starting SGs in the NBA within an inch of CJs height and you're gonna tell me his height is a problem?

 

[0-Our!]

Hell, so is Arron Afflalo, Caldwell-Pope, Courtney Lee, Marco Bellinelli, Iman Shumpert, and Jordan Clarkson. That's half of the starting SGs in the NBA within an inch of CJs height and you're gonna tell me his height is a problem?

Not so much height (in most cases actually but certain matchups) but wingspan (& IMO stamina & speed + more strength would also help out a lot but not if it sacrificed speed).

Just real quick wingspans: KCP= 6'8", Tony Allen= 6'9", Olidipo= 6'9.25" & Cj= 6'6.25" Losing inches here of course does matter.

 

[STOMP]

That's what I meant. And that just means you always matchup CJ with a PG/SG. That's simple. If he does end up in a bigger SF that can actually take advantage then you double and rotate.

bingo! If you're having to regularly double team to help out a player, especially a wing, he's a bad defender... it's that simple. Lol at you listing Ellis as he's the poster child of undersized/poor defending Scoring Guards.

he's maybe an inch shorter than your average SG, which isn't a big deal.

McCollum, Bradley Beal, Victor Olidipo, Eric Gordon, Dwayne Wade, James Harden, JJ Redick, Monta Ellis and Wesley Matthews are all 6'4 or 6'5

Hell, so is Arron Afflalo, Caldwell-Pope, Courtney Lee, Marco Bellinelli, Iman Shumpert, and Jordan Clarkson. That's half of the starting SGs in the NBA within an inch of CJs height and you're gonna tell me his height is a problem?

it's not his listed/pretend size thats an issue, it's his actual size. Guys can list themselves at whatever height they choose, but tape doesn't lie. I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with the NBA pre-draft measurements.

As O-Our! just started touching on, you don't play ball with the top of your head so make sure to look at wingspan and standing reach. Just for reference, Dame's wingspan and standing reach measurements were 6'7.75 & 7'11.5 while CJ's were 6'6.25 & 8'0.5... he's PG sized

STOMP

 

[BlazerCaravan]

It still amazes me that no one in this thread has the balls to ask the right question.

It's a tough question to ask, because there's no way the Blazers win politically by trading Dame. But Olshey traded both his backcourt guys for stars a few years back, so it's not like it hasn't been done.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Philly seems like a good trading partner.

Especially with Colangelo showing his hand a bit and willing to stray from Hinkie's path.

The player I'd poach is Dario Saric. But unfortunately we aren't in position to do this - he may or may not come over next season. A super talent though. My favorite prospect in that draft.

Noel's upside doesn't come close to the hype he came in with. He may turn into a Tyson Chandler - in a few years. Right now he's Ed Davis who shoots sub-50%.