Trail Blazers gear up for legislative ask that would ‘guarantee’ team’s future in Portland (3 Viewers)

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Everything Beagle said:
We’re going to lose the team.
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Frankly, that's my read. I hate the way owners use public funds to subsidize their businesses, but that's the market in which we compete. Given our budget deficit woes, I can't see Multnomah County or the State putting up money to help the billionaires against whom they rail.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
We do support the team.

We're currently 13th in average attendance.

Team makes a profit.

This is very different than the Sonics situation.

They were the only team/arena that had to cancel a game because of the roof leaking.

What upgrades does the Moda need?
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Suites. The a**es in the seats don't matter. The luxury boxes are what fund a team.
 
julius said:
Yeah, because the Charlotte Hornets would be giddy about that...
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They're 2-3 hours away (depending on traffic). I think it would be tough to say they're competing. North Carolina is basketball crazy.
 
One more thing to consider. From our perspective, Seattle is MUCH different than Portland. However, from the view of the East Coast, we're part of their market. We support the Seahawks and the M's, why do you need two teams in the PNW? Just one out of Seattle will be fine. I'm not saying that thinking is right, just that the East Coast bias really hurts us, even beyond Portland becoming a punch line of a dying city.
 
maxiep said:
Frankly, that's my read. I hate the way owners use public funds to subsidize their businesses, but that's the market in which we compete. Given our budget deficit woes, I can't see Multnomah County or the State putting up money to help the billionaires against whom they rail.
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Important note from Highkin’s article posted today:

“So far, all of the public messaging from the most important stakeholders, many of whom testified on Wednesday, would suggest everyone is on the same page, or close enough to it that the deal will ultimately get done.”

Im remaining cautiously optimistic
 
maxiep said:
They're 2-3 hours away (depending on traffic). I think it would be tough to say they're competing. North Carolina is basketball crazy.
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Raleigh is in Charlottes territory, being 2-3 hours away doesn't mean shit.
 
Everything Ive read about Dundon leads me to believe he's a savvy aggressive businessman. He likes to control cost and put the money towards the players. Its worked for his hockey team. It's up to the State, City and county to get something done. He I understand is a very direct communicator, so he expects the same and more in return. Not sure the Gov is the right point person?
 
maxiep said:
Frankly, that's my read. I hate the way owners use public funds to subsidize their businesses, but that's the market in which we compete. Given our budget deficit woes, I can't see Multnomah County or the State putting up money to help the billionaires against whom they rail.
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This is hilarious. He doesn’t own the building. Why would he pay to renovate something he doesn’t own? Would you pay to renovate a house you rent?

The city/state benefits most from the Moda Center. If the Moda Center isn’t renovated, continued to deteriorate and Blazers, Fire, concerts all went away (big name artists won’t come to a run down arena), it would have a HUGE financial & societal impact on many levels to the city & state. It really is a no brainer to support this. I’m very confident this will pass.
 
wizenheimer said:
So far, I'm seeing the 3 different governments jumping thru hoops while the billionaires commit to nothing
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It's a city-owned arena. I think the city/state making the first move, public good faith effort makes sense as the sale closes.

Then it's in the Dundon group's court to come to the table with a 20-40% portion. The challenge there is that Dundon would have to see that neighborhood as something he wants to invest in as a mixed-use development district, which is what happened in Raleigh. Similar to the Coward John Fisher from the A's, it's specifically development that his group is interested in. I'm not sure that group sees that potential. Does the city have the vision to turn the Rose Quarter area around?

Hurricanes Arena: 96/4 public/private (new build, plus pledge from Dundon to invest $800M into the neighborhood over 20 years)

Climate Pledge: 100 private (major reno)
Golden 1: ~50/50 public private (new build)
Fiserv: ~50/50 public private (new build)
Footprint: 65/35 public private (reno)
Gainbridge Fieldhouse: 81/19 public private (reno)
Calgary Arena: 70/30 public private (new build)
Charlotte: 100 public (reno)
Rocket Mortgage: 37/63 public private (reno)
 
Samuel said:
It's a city-owned arena. I think the city/state making the first move, public good faith effort makes sense as the sale closes.

Then it's in the Dundon group's court to come to the table with a 20-40% portion. The challenge there is that Dundon would have to see that neighborhood as something he wants to invest in as a mixed-use development district, which is what happened in Raleigh. Similar to the Coward John Fisher from the A's, it's specifically development that his group is interested in. I'm not sure that group sees that potential. Does the city have the vision to turn the Rose Quarter area around?

Hurricanes Arena: 96/4 public/private (new build, plus pledge from Dundon to invest $800M into the neighborhood over 20 years)

Climate Pledge: 100 private (major reno)
Golden 1: ~50/50 public private (new build)
Fiserv: ~50/50 public private (new build)
Footprint: 65/35 public private (reno)
Gainbridge Fieldhouse: 81/19 public private (reno)
Calgary Arena: 70/30 public private (new build)
Charlotte: 100 public (reno)
Rocket Mortgage: 37/63 public private (reno)
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We've already seen quotes from Dundon talking about a new entertainment district built around and in the Rose Quarter. He didn't say he was going to invest but that he would bring on those who would invest in that area.

We'll see how this all pans out but I think it's an opportunity for the city, county and state but not one without a lot of risk.

They can mitigate those risk factors by getting an iron clad agreement to keep the Blazers here for the next 20 years but that doesn't cancel out the risk that nobody actually comes on to develop the surrounding area and infuse more money into the city, county and state than the government will be spending up front.
 
blazerkor said:
We've already seen quotes from Dundon talking about a new entertainment district built around and in the Rose Quarter. He didn't say he was going to invest but that he would bring on those who would invest in that area.

We'll see how this all pans out but I think it's an opportunity for the city, county and state but not one without a lot of risk.

They can mitigate those risk factors by getting an iron clad agreement to keep the Blazers here for the next 20 years but that doesn't cancel out the risk that nobody actually comes on to develop the surrounding area and infuse more money into the city, county and state than the government will be spending up front.
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I wouldn't bet on anything like 20 year guarantee on a remodel of a 33-34 year old arena (by the time it's finished).

I'm guessing probably could get a guarantee, not sure for how long, plus a commitment of some private funding for a new arena, especially if it was built in a good location allowing for plenty of surrounding development. I don't have a clue if there is that kind of site readily available. The three governments involved are already jumping thru hoops; might want to consider jumping thru the biggest one
 
blazerkor said:
We've already seen quotes from Dundon talking about a new entertainment district built around and in the Rose Quarter. He didn't say he was going to invest but that he would bring on those who would invest in that area.

We'll see how this all pans out but I think it's an opportunity for the city, county and state but not one without a lot of risk.

They can mitigate those risk factors by getting an iron clad agreement to keep the Blazers here for the next 20 years but that doesn't cancel out the risk that nobody actually comes on to develop the surrounding area and infuse more money into the city, county and state than the government will be spending up front.
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it seems like the cherngs could certainly do it (mixed use development)I they've done it in vegas already.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Look at the states that don't have top 3 sports teams. They are probably higher on the hillbilly rankings than most which do.

I'm sorry if I've offended you. I didn't realize hillbilly was such a loaded slur.
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You didn't realize calling somebody a hillbilly is a loaded slur? Really? It's an elitist I'm better than you insult. And hillbillies really hate that.
 
BBert said:
You didn't realize calling somebody a hillbilly is a loaded slur? Really? It's an elitist I'm better than you insult. And hillbillies really hate that.
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I had a friend call me a redneck in my early teens (which is laughable because I was definitely not). His mom got upset with him and thought it was a slur. I was confused because I never looked at it that way. I'm not a redneck but it was never offensive to me in a ouch that hurts way.
 
BBert said:
You didn't realize calling somebody a hillbilly is a loaded slur? Really? It's an elitist I'm better than you insult. And hillbillies really hate that.
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he term "hillbilly" originated in the late 19th or early 20th century in the United States to describe people living in the remote Appalachian Mountains
. It is generally believed to have roots in Scots-Irish immigrant culture, combining "hill" with "billie" (a term meaning comrade or companion, from Scottish/Northern Irish dialects).

Me and Obama are Hillbillies.....
 
Dundon is a glass chewer!
Maybe he can chew on the MC for something.

Those who have worked with Dundon consistently describe him as a “glass chewer” and a “fierce negotiator” who is intense and highly demanding. His negotiations in Raleigh to secure public financing for the Hurricanes’ arena renovation and a new long-term lease were famously challenging. Philip Isley, who led the negotiations for the local government, called the talks “complicated as hell” and said the two sides “cussed at each other.” However, the difficult process ultimately resulted in a 20-year lease extension, $300 million in public financing for the arena, and a deal for Dundon to develop an $800 million mixed-use project on surrounding land. Isley noted that despite the contentious nature of the talks, Dundon “never lied to me.”
 
AldoTrapani said:
Important note from Highkin’s article posted today:

“So far, all of the public messaging from the most important stakeholders, many of whom testified on Wednesday, would suggest everyone is on the same page, or close enough to it that the deal will ultimately get done.”

Im remaining cautiously optimistic
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inconceivable
 
Samuel said:
Oopsie--Calgary Arena numbers snafu.
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1770939379616.png

so, the initial numbers are kind of convoluted, but pretty clearly the entities covering most of the cost are the city and the corporation that owns the Calgary team

according to the deal, the province Alberta, is covering 3.5% of the cost. Meanwhile, this proposal for the Blazers has the State of Oregon covering 60% of the cost. This proposal is upside down and Portland interests are forcing the rest of the state to put money into the project they shouldn't have to.

I just googled the GDP numbers for Multnomah (91B), Washington (63B), and Clackamas counties (29B). Julius gets an assist!. That's 183B in GDP, annually, as a baseline. The renovation cost of 600M is only 0.328% of the combined GDP; less than 1/3 of 1%.

if you assume an annual inflation rate for the 20 year duration of the bonds, (which also matches what the advocates are saying will be the life-cycle of the renovation), and apply that to 183M, the average GD. That means the renovation cost of the Moda represents 0.0133333% of the combined GDP. And these counties are asking the entire state to cover 60% of the cost.

and so far, I have not heard of Dundon contributing one dollar or him guaranteeing this renovation will extend to lease past 2030
 
wizenheimer said:
View attachment 81262

so, the initial numbers are kind of convoluted, but pretty clearly the entities covering most of the cost are the city and the corporation that owns the Calgary team

according to the deal, the province Alberta, is covering 3.5% of the cost. Meanwhile, this proposal for the Blazers has the State of Oregon covering 60% of the cost. This proposal is upside down and Portland interests are forcing the rest of the state to put money into the project they shouldn't have to.

I just googled the GDP numbers for Multnomah (91B), Washington (63B), and Clackamas counties (29B). Julius gets an assist!. That's 183B in GDP, annually, as a baseline. The renovation cost of 600M is only 0.328% of the combined GDP; less than 1/3 of 1%.

if you assume an annual inflation rate for the 20 year duration of the bonds, (which also matches what the advocates are saying will be the life-cycle of the renovation), and apply that to 183M, the average GD. That means the renovation cost of the Moda represents 0.0133333% of the combined GDP. And these counties are asking the entire state to cover 60% of the cost.

and so far, I have not heard of Dundon contributing one dollar or him guaranteeing this renovation will extend to lease past 2030
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who gives a shit. I pay tons on my property tax for dumb ass shit. Atleast if they take my money for the blazers I get my team
 
wizenheimer said:
View attachment 81262

so, the initial numbers are kind of convoluted, but pretty clearly the entities covering most of the cost are the city and the corporation that owns the Calgary team

according to the deal, the province Alberta, is covering 3.5% of the cost. Meanwhile, this proposal for the Blazers has the State of Oregon covering 60% of the cost. This proposal is upside down and Portland interests are forcing the rest of the state to put money into the project they shouldn't have to.

I just googled the GDP numbers for Multnomah (91B), Washington (63B), and Clackamas counties (29B). Julius gets an assist!. That's 183B in GDP, annually, as a baseline. The renovation cost of 600M is only 0.328% of the combined GDP; less than 1/3 of 1%.

if you assume an annual inflation rate for the 20 year duration of the bonds, (which also matches what the advocates are saying will be the life-cycle of the renovation), and apply that to 183M, the average GD. That means the renovation cost of the Moda represents 0.0133333% of the combined GDP. And these counties are asking the entire state to cover 60% of the cost.

and so far, I have not heard of Dundon contributing one dollar or him guaranteeing this renovation will extend to lease past 2030
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Those counties don't have an income tax/Jock tax. The income tax is collected by the state, that's why the state has to pay for the renovation.

How much of the state income tax revenue comes from work in those counties? How much of the "Jock tax" comes from those counties?

Maybe you can work to move the Jock tax revenue from Burns over to a separate project. Would that be even $5?
 
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