Trail Blazers gear up for legislative ask that would ‘guarantee’ team’s future in Portland (11 Viewers)

[SlyPokerDog]

One thing that everyone overlooks is that the Sonics were losing money. They needed their arena remodeled so the team could financially survive.

Honestly, on the business side of things, the Blazers have an excellent staff. It was long argued that small market teams can't make a profit. The Blazers do make one. They have for the last 10+ seasons. Business-wise, the Blazers gone from S.P.A.M. to profit-generating.

 

[Hoopguru]

At least Clay Bennet kissed Seattle for a year before fucking them.

So the ink isn't even dry, the owners haven't even voted on this, and he's already looking to move the team?!? That's horseshit.

What exactly needs to be done to the Moda?

Where are these plans?

Is $600 million enough? Too much?

Taxpayers really have to come up with $600 million of funding BEFORE the new owner takes over running the team or else he'll move them?

When I heard Silver state that new arena or major upgrades would be needed more than likely, there have been much discussed already with some projections/objectives.
I would like to hear something from our Governor and PDX Mayor.

 

[Hoopguru]

The arena is absolutely fine. Don’t know where this all started that we need a new one.

The commish started it, imo.

 

[Hoopguru]

Paul was why Portland was able to build Moda, if it was left up to the State/City not sure it would have gotten done.

 

[wizenheimer]

It'll get funded or we're backwoods hillbillies who don't deserve a team.

you know what....I think that's mostly bullshit

what we're talking about is taking current money out of the State's general fund. In the scheme of things the amount is small, but the budget needs to balance and there are a lot of competing interests like:

K-12 education
health care, Medicaid, and human services
public safety and emergency response
safe roads & highways, and structurally sound bridges
food assistance
housing assistance
electrical infrastructure
wildfire response and mitigation
etc. etc. etc.

it's difficult for me to elevate a Moda Renovation that will mostly benefit a billionaire and one small region of the state over all those other priorities. Renovation of a 30 year old building for guys to shoot basketbalss and Miley Cyrus to shake her booty. It just doesn't seem to rise to necessity when competing against all those other claims on a limited resource. That's not hillbilly logic

something else and I'm not sure about this...it kind of sounded like the State of Oregon would be required to underwrite the bond issue. If so, the State could be on the hook for the entire 600M which everybody knows will probably end up at 800M (or more) by the time it's done

 

[THE HCP]

you know what....I think that's mostly bullshit

what we're talking about is taking current money out of the State's general fund. In the scheme of things the amount is small, but the budget needs to balance and there are a lot of competing interests like:

K-12 education
health care, Medicaid, and human services
public safety and emergency response
safe roads & highways, and structurally sound bridges
food assistance
housing assistance
electrical infrastructure
wildfire response and mitigation
etc. etc. etc.

it's difficult for me to elevate a Moda Renovation that will mostly benefit a billionaire and one small region of the state over all those other priorities. Renovation of a 30 year old building for guys to shoot basketbalss and Miley Cyrus to shake her booty. It just doesn't seem to rise to necessity when competing against all those other claims on a limited resource. That's not hillbilly logic

something else and I'm not sure about this...it kind of sounded like the State of Oregon would be required to underwrite the bond issue. If so, the State could be on the hook for the entire 600M which everybody knows will probably end up at 800M (or more) by the time it's done

What if that 30 year old building paid your mortgage, bills, car payments, health insurance, entire family’s future depended on said building?

 

[wizenheimer]

What if that 30 year old building paid your mortgage, bills, car payments, health insurance, entire family’s future depended on said building?

those jobs are gone in 2025....if the 35 day off-year session of the legislature takes no action on this bill, nobody working at or associated with Moda will lose their jobs in 2026

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Paul was why Portland was able to build Moda, if it was left up to the State/City not sure it would have gotten done.

Wasn't he the 4th richest man in the world at the time the Moda was built? He loved being an NBA owner. I hope Dundon has the same love.

 

[Hoopguru]

Wasn't he the 4th richest man in the world at the time the Moda was built? He loved being an NBA owner. I hope Dundon has the same love.

he Lenovo Center (formerly PNC Arena), home to the Carolina Hurricanes, is owned by the Centennial Authority, a government body in North Carolina. While the authority owns the building and surrounding 80 acres, the arena is managed and operated by Gale Force Sports & Entertainment, which is owned by Hurricanes owner Tom Dundon.
Key details regarding ownership and management:

• Ownership: The Centennial Authority, established by the state of North Carolina, holds the title to the venue.
• Operations: Gale Force Sports & Entertainment (a subsidiary of Hurricanes Holdings) manages the arena.
• Lease/Future: The Hurricanes have a long-term lease, running through the 2043-44 season, which includes significant renovations to the arena and surrounding property.
• Naming Rights: In 2024, the arena was renamed the Lenovo Center.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

he Lenovo Center (formerly PNC Arena), home to the Carolina Hurricanes, is owned by the Centennial Authority, a government body in North Carolina. While the authority owns the building and surrounding 80 acres, the arena is managed and operated by Gale Force Sports & Entertainment, which is owned by Hurricanes owner Tom Dundon.
Key details regarding ownership and management:

• Ownership: The Centennial Authority, established by the state of North Carolina, holds the title to the venue.
• Operations: Gale Force Sports & Entertainment (a subsidiary of Hurricanes Holdings) manages the arena.
• Lease/Future: The Hurricanes have a long-term lease, running through the 2043-44 season, which includes significant renovations to the arena and surrounding property.
• Naming Rights: In 2024, the arena was renamed the Lenovo Center.

Exactly, Dundon invested in the area around the arena. It's a public/private partnership.

Can we see what the plan is for the Rose Quarter and the area around the Moda? Will this be a public/private partnership?

 

[Phatguysrule]

you know what....I think that's mostly bullshit

what we're talking about is taking current money out of the State's general fund. In the scheme of things the amount is small, but the budget needs to balance and there are a lot of competing interests like:

K-12 education
health care, Medicaid, and human services
public safety and emergency response
safe roads & highways, and structurally sound bridges
food assistance
housing assistance
electrical infrastructure
wildfire response and mitigation
etc. etc. etc.

it's difficult for me to elevate a Moda Renovation that will mostly benefit a billionaire and one small region of the state over all those other priorities. Renovation of a 30 year old building for guys to shoot basketbalss and Miley Cyrus to shake her booty. It just doesn't seem to rise to necessity when competing against all those other claims on a limited resource. That's not hillbilly logic

something else and I'm not sure about this...it kind of sounded like the State of Oregon would be required to underwrite the bond issue. If so, the State could be on the hook for the entire 600M which everybody knows will probably end up at 800M (or more) by the time it's done

The reasons don't matter. Either we can afford to have the team here or we can't. If another city is better prepared to offer a state-of-the-art arena then they deserve the team more than we do.

Once again, if we weren't prepared to make the investment to keep the team here then we shouldn't have taken possession of the building. Whoever bought the team should have bought the team with in mind.

That being the case the buyer could have paid less for the team and put some money toward the building.

If Portland and Oregon can't support even one of the big three sports franchises with this population then we're hillbillies.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The reasons don't matter. Either we can afford to have the team here or we can't. If another city is better prepared to offer a state-of-the-art arena then they deserve the team more than we do.

Once again, if we weren't prepared to make the investment to keep the team here then we shouldn't have taken possession of the building. Whoever bought the team should have bought the team with in mind.

That being the case the buyer could have paid less for the team and put some money toward the building.

If Portland and Oregon can't support even one of the big three sports franchises with this population then we're hillbillies.

We do support the team.

We're currently 13th in average attendance.

Team makes a profit.

This is very different than the Sonics situation.

They were the only team/arena that had to cancel a game because of the roof leaking.

What upgrades does the Moda need?

 

[Hoopguru]

The reasons don't matter. Either we can afford to have the team here or we can't. If another city is better prepared to offer a state-of-the-art arena then they deserve the team more than we do.

Once again, if we weren't prepared to make the investment to keep the team here then we shouldn't have taken possession of the building. Whoever bought the team should have bought the team with in mind.

That being the case the buyer could have paid less for the team and put some money toward the building.

If Portland and Oregon can't support even one of the big three sports franchises with this population then we're hillbillies.

Right on....
It all comes down to priorities and how they want to spend tax payer money.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We do support the team.

We're currently 13th in average attendance.

Team makes a profit.

This is very different than the Sonics situation.

They were the only team/arena that had to cancel a game because of the roof leaking.

What upgrades does the Moda need?

We can't support them if we can't give them a quality arena. That's the going rate for having a pro team.

Isn't the Rose Garden currently the oldest Arena without a major upgrade/renovation? Aren't there other arenas (and cities with funding in place to build new arenas) better than the Rose Garden which do not have a team?

Dundon made it pretty clear that a renovation or new arena will be required to keep the team here. Average attendance and team making a profit didn't seem to be a consideration here.

The city is going to have to provide a very good arena to keep a team here. I don't like it, I think billionaires should do it, but I would prefer having the blazers here then lose them because I wanted Portland and Oregon to save a billion dollars.

 

[Hoopguru]

The reasons don't matter. Either we can afford to have the team here or we can't. If another city is better prepared to offer a state-of-the-art arena then they deserve the team more than we do.

Once again, if we weren't prepared to make the investment to keep the team here then we shouldn't have taken possession of the building. Whoever bought the team should have bought the team with in mind.

That being the case the buyer could have paid less for the team and put some money toward the building.

If Portland and Oregon can't support even one of the big three sports franchises with this population then we're hillbillies.

or just not a competitive progressive sports town in general.

 

[Phatguysrule]

or just not a competitive progressive sports town in general.

Yeah, hillbillies.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

We can't support them if we can't give them a quality arena. That's the going rate for having a pro team.

Isn't the Rose Garden currently the oldest Arena without a major upgrade/renovation? Aren't there other arenas (and cities with funding in place to build new arenas) better than the Rose Garden which do not have a team?

Dundon made it pretty clear that a renovation or new arena will be required to keep the team here. Average attendance and team making a profit didn't seem to be a consideration here.

The city is going to have to provide a very good arena to keep a team here. I don't like it, I think billionaires should do it, but I would prefer having the blazers here then lose them because I wanted Portland and Oregon to save a billion dollars.

The Blazers have done an amazing job of continuously improving the Moda. Just this offseason they did new video boards and improved the seating.

A major renovation is not needed. It's like your house, if you take care of it, you don't need to take it down to the studs and rebuild it.

And we can't get a straight answer on what upgrades are needed. Are we talking 400 level? Chocolate and champagne fountains?

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah, hillbillies.

That's really insulting for all the people who really don't care about sports or the Blazers (there are millions of them), but are taxpayers. Why the fuck should working people in Coos Bay and Grants Pass and Klamath Falls and Lakeview and Vale pay part of the cost for a Moda renovation? That 'jock tax' component of this funding proposal is kind of a bullshit cop-out. By all reporting, Dundon is going to have a major say, the lead control on what happens with the renovation; but I have not heard about how much money he'll be investing in the project. Will it even be 10 dollars? 1 dollar? Why should a farmer in Roseburg Oregon pay more than the guy who owns the Blazers?

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

in response to Sly in the other thread about this same topic:

As the arena ages, the cost of maintaining and fixing & replacing things that break down grows and grows. I believe a good chunk of the $ will go towards upgrading things that are behind the scenes that need replacing.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

in response to Sly in the other thread about this same topic:

As the arena ages, the cost of maintaining and fixing & replacing things that break down grows and grows. I believe a good chunk of the $ will go towards upgrading things that are behind the scenes that need replacing.

Okay, I can see that. But $600 million worth? Again, the Blazers have done a beautiful job of maintaining and improving the Moda.

I can't say this enough, I'm NOT against the funding. I just want to know what it's going for.

If it were me, I would love to see the section of the Blazers offices and Dr Jacks place torn down, a casino with some bars and nightlife put in it's place, and a Fremont Street Experience DT Las Vegas LED roof covering the area between the new amenities and the Moda. Put in things that will generate more revenue for everyone. Redo the entrances to the Moda so fans don't have to wait in the rain.

See, it's just that easy. Say something. Sell the sizzle. Show us you're happy to own the Blazers IN PORTLAND, OREGON.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The Blazers have done an amazing job of continuously improving the Moda. Just this offseason they did new video boards and improved the seating.

A major renovation is not needed. It's like your house, if you take care of it, you don't need to take it down to the studs and rebuild it.

And we can't get a straight answer on what upgrades are needed. Are we talking 400 level? Chocolate and champagne fountains?

Solid points. But if someone else is offering a better arena I don't know that it matters what the Blazers have done in the past. It just matters if the arena is better and if the owner thinks it's more profitable/prestigous to move the team than keep it here.

 

[Phatguysrule]

That's really insulting for all the people who really don't care about sports or the Blazers (there are millions of them), but are taxpayers. Why the fuck should working people in Coos Bay and Grants Pass and Klamath Falls and Lakeview and Vale pay part of the cost for a Moda renovation? That 'jock tax' component of this funding proposal is kind of a bullshit cop-out. By all reporting, Dundon is going to have a major say, the lead control on what happens with the renovation; but I have not heard about how much money he'll be investing in the project. Will it even be 10 dollars? 1 dollar? Why should a farmer in Roseburg Oregon pay more than the guy who owns the Blazers?

I'm not saying it's bad. But you just basically listed a bunch of hillbillies. There is nothing wrong with being a hillbilly. But they usually don't prioritize NBA basketball...

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Solid points. But if someone else is offering a better arena I don't know that it matters what the Blazers have done in the past. It just matters if the arena is better and if the owner thinks it's more profitable/prestigous to move the team than keep it here.

No, the Sonics were allowed to relocate because they were losing money. If the NBA allows teams to move because they can make MORE money elsewhere, that is going to fuck more cities than just Portland.

The Blazers and our new owners need to tell us what the plan is, what the new money will go for.

We know the $600 million isn't going to do anything to make tickets cheaper.

So what is the plan?

And if we buy into the plan and fund it, what does it get us? Will $600 million get a guarentee the Blazers won't leave for 10 years? Could we double it to $1.2 billion and get an agreement not to leave for 20 years?

What is needed, what is wanted, how much does it cost?

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Okay, I can see that. But $600 million worth? Again, the Blazers have done a beautiful job of maintaining and improving the Moda.

I can't say this enough, I'm NOT against the funding. I just want to know what it's going for.

If it were me, I would love to see the section of the Blazers offices and Dr Jacks place torn down, a casino with some bars and nightlife put in it's place, and a Fremont Street Experience DT Las Vegas LED roof covering the area between the new amenities and the Moda. Put in things that will generate more revenue for everyone. Redo the entrances to the Moda so fans don't have to wait in the rain.

See, it's just that easy. Say something. Sell the sizzle. Show us you're happy to own the Blazers IN PORTLAND, OREGON.

I said a chunk of the $, not the full $600M.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm not saying it's bad. But you just basically listed a bunch of hillbillies. There is nothing wrong with being a hillbilly. But they usually don't prioritize NBA basketball...

bullshit

my brother lived in Klamath Falls; my wife's nephew lives in Ashland. I have a good friend who lives in Port Orford (you can find him on Facebook and google under Scrimshander); and another who lives in Lakeview. A guy I went to the UofO with lives in LaGrande and his son lives in Pendelton. My parents lived in Sweet Home. A guy I worked with for years and who was a scolarship gymnast at the UofO lives in Falls City. These people are not hillbillies and I seriously doubt any of them want their tax dollars to be spent on the Blazers. You're acting like a snob

 

[Phatguysrule]

No, the Sonics were allowed to relocate because they were losing money. If the NBA allows teams to move because they can make MORE money elsewhere, that is going to fuck more cities than just Portland.

The Blazers and our new owners need to tell us what the plan is, what the new money will go for.

We know the $600 million isn't going to do anything to make tickets cheaper.

So what is the plan?

And if we buy into the plan and fund it, what does it get us? Will $600 million get a guarentee the Blazers won't leave for 10 years? Could we double it to $1.2 billion and get an agreement not to leave for 20 years?

What is needed, what is wanted, how much does it cost?

I would think the $600 million should guarantee 20 years, with a stipulation that the facility remain among the top half of the league according to a 3rd party audit.

But yeah, I completely agree. If we're going to come up with that kind of money we need to know the plan. I would think that would all be part of the deal.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I said a chunk of the $, not the full $600M.

I get that.

Look at the Climate Whatever Arena in Seattle. The Kraken are playing in a 64yr old arena. But it's been completely remodled. But before the remodel to NHL standards, and apparently, NBA standards, there was a plan presented. "If we get this much money we can do this and make it easier to maybe get this in the future."

Climate Pledge Arena - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[wizenheimer]

No, the Sonics were allowed to relocate because they were losing money. If the NBA allows teams to move because they can make MORE money elsewhere, that is going to fuck more cities than just Portland.

The Blazers and our new owners need to tell us what the plan is, what the new money will go for.

We know the $600 million isn't going to do anything to make tickets cheaper.

So what is the plan?

And if we buy into the plan and fund it, what does it get us? Will $600 million get a guarentee the Blazers won't leave for 10 years? Could we double it to $1.2 billion and get an agreement not to leave for 20 years?

What is needed, what is wanted, how much does it cost?

good points, and maybe this needs to be factored in:


**************************************************************************

something else too...you're right in that the targets for the 600M seem kind of vague

but has anybody verified if the supposed path to funding is valid or if it's bloated projection?

for instance, with a 360M bond issue, the debt service on those bonds could be in the annual 13-18M range. That has to come out of the jock tax, right? Well, what are the projections for the jock tax revenue? And how many years will it take for the balance to retire the bonds?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

good points, and maybe this needs to be factored in:

View attachment 80950

We're looking at doing what Seattle did.

Climate Pledge Arena - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They improved a 64 yr old arena enough to get an expansion NHL team. But they had a plan when they asked for the money. What is the plan?

 

[wizenheimer]

We're looking at doing what Seattle did.

Climate Pledge Arena - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They improved a 64 yr old arena enough to get an expansion NHL team. But they had a plan when they asked for the money. What is the plan?

I know

this Moda proposal seems rushed and vague, and that may be a kind description. This is the wrong year to go to the legislature. It needs to go in an odd-numbered year when there is a full session

My question was about the bond sale. The talked about a 360M issue of bonds. This is a debt. There is service on that debt and if you figure 4-5% interest on these bonds that could be 15M year in debt service + cost of management of that service. Bond debt is generally set at a 20-30 year schedule. Where is that 15M/year coming from? If it's a 30 year bond, then you'd need 12M/year for escrow. That's now 27M/year. Where is that money coming from?

if the Jock tax is for debt service and principle, then it's not a 600M project, it's a 360M project...no?