Politics Transgender in the military

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

@BlazerCaravan Nice to see you posting again. You sound fired up! Hope all is well. I have an acquaintance that is transitioning and also posted their "coming out" describing their gender dysphoria shortly before you posted your life news in this forum. She seems very happy now. I find your thoughts on gender dysphoria interesting because while I have questions about it in processing what's going on in my acquaintance's head, I don't feel that we are good enough of friends to ask questions. Instead I just try to respect her life decisions and apologize when I catch myself using the wrong pronoun. Thank you for coming here to post your thoughts.
 
aka Pat Tillman.

"There are four types of people who join the military. For some, it's a family trade. Others are patriots, eager to serve. Next, you have those who just need a job. Than there's the kind who want a legal means of killing other people."
-Jack Reacher
What about the people who don't "need a job", but see military service as a good way to get school paid for once they've done their four years?
 
@BlazerCaravan Nice to see you posting again. You sound fired up! Hope all is well. I have an acquaintance that is transitioning and also posted their "coming out" describing their gender dysphoria shortly before you posted your life news in this forum. She seems very happy now. I find your thoughts on gender dysphoria interesting because while I have questions about it in processing what's going on in my acquaintance's head, I don't feel that we are good enough of friends to ask questions. Instead I just try to respect her life decisions and apologize when I catch myself using the wrong pronoun. Thank you for coming here to post your thoughts.

(this is a horrible metaphor because I just ate lunch) Imagine a sandwich.

One slice of bread is your Biological Sex Expression, things like you genitals, secondary sex characteristics like facial hair, breasts, etc.
The filling represents your mental and emotional state: messy and gooey, or maybe neatly sliced and square.
One slice of bread is your Gender Identity, the way you feel inside, the way you actually identify.

Now, for 95% of people, both slices of bread are exactly the same. They're from the same loaf, adjacent slices. The filling is neatly inside both slices. If you looked from the top down at your plate, you might not even realize it was a sandwich. It'd look like a single piece of bread.

For 5% of people, the two slices of bread aren't the same. They're different sizes, from different loaves. They don't match. And when they don't match, the Biological Sex Expression slice is always larger, and the Gender Identity slice is always a bit smaller. Maybe it's round too. Who knows.

Now, if the top slice of the sandwich is the Biological Sex Expression, from the top down it might still look like a single slice of bread, because the other slice is hidden... but the filling is going to drip onto the plate if it's gooey (if it's neat and orderly, maybe it doesn't... some folks have it all figured out). This is a closeted trans person, or one who doesn't realize they're trans yet. But that dripping? That's what gender dysphoria is. The discomfort of knowing your slices don't match, of knowing that you're a sandwich and not a single slice of bread...

...but more than that, you realize everyone's a fucking sandwich and they think they're all single slices of bread. It's infuriating but so impossible to explain because nobody looks at anyone except from the top down, as if there was no depth to the picture.

The act of coming out involves flipping the sandwich over, expressing your Gender Identity outwardly. But that Biological slice can still be seen, and so can some of the filling. Coming out exposes the difference. People can't look top down and see a single slice anymore. Often what they see is a big mess, a big slice and a little slice, and a bunch of exposed filling.

What an awful sandwich! Why did they even bother flipping the sandwich over if it looks like THAT?! My god who would eat that?!

But the filling isn't dripping on the plate anymore. That expression keeps the emotions in check.

Hormones, surgery, all of that... it's all about slicing that Biological slice to make it fit the gender slice. And some folks, if they get treatment early enough, can cut that biological slice to match perfectly. And hey, what a beautiful slice of bread. They can't even see the sandwich. Some folks will never know there's two slices of bread there.

Most of the time, the slices don't match that well, but if you dress up right and don't talk, you can make that top slice a bit bigger than the bottom slice so that if people just glance they don't see a sandwich.

People need to realize everyone is a sandwich first. Then they need to feel lucky as fuck their slices match. Then they need to support folks who have different slices. Then, you can get into accepting sandwiches that aren't neatly made, so that we don't have to hack away at the bottom slice to make it match the top slice. Because even a messy sandwich can be delicious.
 
Erectile dysfunction should disqualify someone. Low self esteem. White nationalism. Racism, sexism, blind patriotism are all mental defects. But that starts cutting into major swaths of the folk who join the military.

Is the military a government job? If it is then it should operate by the rules all government jobs do. If snowflake generals are wringing their hands over trans soldiers not being badass enough, or their medication costing money while they down boner pills and suffer PTSD, that's their fucking problem.
You sound really butt hurt. Calm down and try making rational thoughts.
 
There will be “no modifications” to the military’s transgender policy as a result of President Donald Trump’s declared ban on transgender men and women on Twitter, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs said in a message to top military officers on Thursday -- the latest sign of the disarray following the commander-in-chief's abrupt announcement.

Marine Gen. Joe Dunford also wrote in the message, which was sent to the chiefs of the military branches and senior enlisted leaders, that the military will continue to “treat all of our personnel with respect.”

“I know there are questions about yesterday's announcement on the transgender policy by the President,” Dunford wrote in the internal communication, a copy of which was provided to POLITICO. “There will be no modifications to the current policy until the President's direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidance.”

Link

Doesn't seem like the military is itching to drum out transgender people. They probably don't have much choice if Trump actually follows through with a detailed directive. Lacking detail, though, I imagine the military will ignore it as much as possible.
 
Erectile dysfunction should disqualify someone. Low self esteem. White nationalism. Racism, sexism, blind patriotism are all mental defects. But that starts cutting into major swaths of the folk who join the military.

Is the military a government job? If it is then it should operate by the rules all government jobs do. If snowflake generals are wringing their hands over trans soldiers not being badass enough, or their medication costing money while they down boner pills and suffer PTSD, that's their fucking problem.
I wasn't going to pick apart this shit post, but I'm waiting on someone, so... fuck it.

Everything you stated in the first paragraph, would indeed disqualify someone. So you can rest easy.

As for the second clump of words you strung together there; I think we both know that not all government jobs are the same - stop grasping at straws. And any medical problem that happens after a person joins, is covered. So I'm not sure why you're upset that the military covers PTSD?

Also, there are reasons that the military has an abnormally high amount of young testosterone filled 20 something year olds with ED.

Not sure what that has to do with people that wanna chop their dicks off, etc. but whatever.
 
I wasn't going to pick apart this shit post, but I'm waiting on someone, so... fuck it.

Everything you stated in the first paragraph, would indeed disqualify someone. So you can rest easy.

Then why is the military spending more than $0 on Viagra?

Also, there are reasons that the military has an abnormally high amount of young testosterone filled 20 something year olds with ED.

Why is that?
 
Then why is the military spending more than $0 on Viagra?



Why is that?
Because they develop ED after they join.

Side effects from medication.

Side effect from stress.

Random chance that the person just naturally develops ed.

Conspiracy theory: they drug military members to give them ed.

^a lot of people in the military believe that, and I kind of believe it.
 
Then why aren't they discharged (heh... 'discharge')?
Because if you develop any medical condition after you sign that contract, the government has to cover it.

They can't kick someone out because they get a prescription for Vicodin.

People do get forced out for medical things though. Sometimes they're compensated, sometimes not.
 
Last edited:
Because if you develop any medical condition after you sign that contract, the government has to cover it.

Is it assumed the soldiers are not breaking their end of the contract because they can't get a boner on Day 2 of service rather than Day 0?

Hypothetical: Should a trans soldier coming out after joining the service be similarly treated, if they didn't know they were trans before they joined?
 
(this is a horrible metaphor because I just ate lunch) Imagine a sandwich.

One slice of bread is your Biological Sex Expression, things like you genitals, secondary sex characteristics like facial hair, breasts, etc.
The filling represents your mental and emotional state: messy and gooey, or maybe neatly sliced and square.
One slice of bread is your Gender Identity, the way you feel inside, the way you actually identify.

Now, for 95% of people, both slices of bread are exactly the same. They're from the same loaf, adjacent slices. The filling is neatly inside both slices. If you looked from the top down at your plate, you might not even realize it was a sandwich. It'd look like a single piece of bread.

For 5% of people, the two slices of bread aren't the same. They're different sizes, from different loaves. They don't match. And when they don't match, the Biological Sex Expression slice is always larger, and the Gender Identity slice is always a bit smaller. Maybe it's round too. Who knows.

Now, if the top slice of the sandwich is the Biological Sex Expression, from the top down it might still look like a single slice of bread, because the other slice is hidden... but the filling is going to drip onto the plate if it's gooey (if it's neat and orderly, maybe it doesn't... some folks have it all figured out). This is a closeted trans person, or one who doesn't realize they're trans yet. But that dripping? That's what gender dysphoria is. The discomfort of knowing your slices don't match, of knowing that you're a sandwich and not a single slice of bread...

...but more than that, you realize everyone's a fucking sandwich and they think they're all single slices of bread. It's infuriating but so impossible to explain because nobody looks at anyone except from the top down, as if there was no depth to the picture.

The act of coming out involves flipping the sandwich over, expressing your Gender Identity outwardly. But that Biological slice can still be seen, and so can some of the filling. Coming out exposes the difference. People can't look top down and see a single slice anymore. Often what they see is a big mess, a big slice and a little slice, and a bunch of exposed filling.

What an awful sandwich! Why did they even bother flipping the sandwich over if it looks like THAT?! My god who would eat that?!

But the filling isn't dripping on the plate anymore. That expression keeps the emotions in check.

Hormones, surgery, all of that... it's all about slicing that Biological slice to make it fit the gender slice. And some folks, if they get treatment early enough, can cut that biological slice to match perfectly. And hey, what a beautiful slice of bread. They can't even see the sandwich. Some folks will never know there's two slices of bread there.

Most of the time, the slices don't match that well, but if you dress up right and don't talk, you can make that top slice a bit bigger than the bottom slice so that if people just glance they don't see a sandwich.

People need to realize everyone is a sandwich first. Then they need to feel lucky as fuck their slices match. Then they need to support folks who have different slices. Then, you can get into accepting sandwiches that aren't neatly made, so that we don't have to hack away at the bottom slice to make it match the top slice. Because even a messy sandwich can be delicious.
BTW, I completely disagree with you.
I think it's a fantastic metaphor, and I thank you for it.
 
(this is a horrible metaphor because I just ate lunch) Imagine a sandwich.

One slice of bread is your Biological Sex Expression, things like you genitals, secondary sex characteristics like facial hair, breasts, etc.
The filling represents your mental and emotional state: messy and gooey, or maybe neatly sliced and square.
One slice of bread is your Gender Identity, the way you feel inside, the way you actually identify.

Now, for 95% of people, both slices of bread are exactly the same. They're from the same loaf, adjacent slices. The filling is neatly inside both slices. If you looked from the top down at your plate, you might not even realize it was a sandwich. It'd look like a single piece of bread.

For 5% of people, the two slices of bread aren't the same. They're different sizes, from different loaves. They don't match. And when they don't match, the Biological Sex Expression slice is always larger, and the Gender Identity slice is always a bit smaller. Maybe it's round too. Who knows.

Now, if the top slice of the sandwich is the Biological Sex Expression, from the top down it might still look like a single slice of bread, because the other slice is hidden... but the filling is going to drip onto the plate if it's gooey (if it's neat and orderly, maybe it doesn't... some folks have it all figured out). This is a closeted trans person, or one who doesn't realize they're trans yet. But that dripping? That's what gender dysphoria is. The discomfort of knowing your slices don't match, of knowing that you're a sandwich and not a single slice of bread...

...but more than that, you realize everyone's a fucking sandwich and they think they're all single slices of bread. It's infuriating but so impossible to explain because nobody looks at anyone except from the top down, as if there was no depth to the picture.

The act of coming out involves flipping the sandwich over, expressing your Gender Identity outwardly. But that Biological slice can still be seen, and so can some of the filling. Coming out exposes the difference. People can't look top down and see a single slice anymore. Often what they see is a big mess, a big slice and a little slice, and a bunch of exposed filling.

What an awful sandwich! Why did they even bother flipping the sandwich over if it looks like THAT?! My god who would eat that?!

But the filling isn't dripping on the plate anymore. That expression keeps the emotions in check.

Hormones, surgery, all of that... it's all about slicing that Biological slice to make it fit the gender slice. And some folks, if they get treatment early enough, can cut that biological slice to match perfectly. And hey, what a beautiful slice of bread. They can't even see the sandwich. Some folks will never know there's two slices of bread there.

Most of the time, the slices don't match that well, but if you dress up right and don't talk, you can make that top slice a bit bigger than the bottom slice so that if people just glance they don't see a sandwich.

People need to realize everyone is a sandwich first. Then they need to feel lucky as fuck their slices match. Then they need to support folks who have different slices. Then, you can get into accepting sandwiches that aren't neatly made, so that we don't have to hack away at the bottom slice to make it match the top slice. Because even a messy sandwich can be delicious.

But is a hotdog a sandwich???

In all seriousness though, thank you for explaining it like this. Same as @Sedatedfork, I have a friend that is a trans person and it is tough to ask them specific questions sometimes. These sorts of metaphors help me understand a bit better.
 
I really feel like the sandwich chart that Minstrel posted a few weeks back needs to be referenced here, but I can't find it.

barfo
 
I really feel like the sandwich chart that Minstrel posted a few weeks back needs to be referenced here, but I can't find it.

barfo

This one?

2017%2F05%2F03%2F33%2F3fbeba5905294a73a0476b1e5d22e13f.d108d.jpg
 
and suffer PTSD, that's their fucking problem.

Wow! It didn't take long!
Something new already. I have never heard/seen anyone actually say, "PTSD is their fucking problem"

That must be a quick mind in action.
 
Wow! It didn't take long!
Something new already. I have never heard/seen anyone actually say, "PTSD is their fucking problem"

That must be a quick mind in action.

That's literally not what I said... but the sentence was pretty long, so if you got lost I apologize.
 
If someone can do the job and do it well, I don't care about anything else.

If there is a woman that can play in the NBA, awesome.

If there is a woman that can throw a 90 mph fastball. Get her in the MLB.

If there is a trans man or woman that wants to join the military, awesome.

If there was a Nobel prize for being benevolent, you might be in the running.
But let's try a real question.
If you were starting a new company, hiring your help to get it off and running. And let's say you wanted to provide good healthcare for your employees as a Self Insured employer,
what sort of employees would you hire and how would you do it? As a final step.

A. Have the doctors give every candidate a physical/mental exam, with the healthy well adjusted people passing.

B. Have your social worker select the most deserving people in need of treatment.
 
Last edited:
If someone can do the job and do it well, I don't care about anything else.

If there is a woman that can play in the NBA, awesome.

If there is a woman that can throw a 90 mph fastball. Get her in the MLB.

If there is a trans man or woman that wants to join the military, awesome.

What about if there is a man that can dominate in the WNBA?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top