Politics Transgender in the military

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MarAzul said:
So you don't see it as a desirable skill, ability or attribute. Just people that need improvement. Well ok. Is the military there to preform this function? Or Provide the fighting force?
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Every single person that I know who has joined the military did so because they wanted improvement.

I know people who were fat when they joined and they thought it would get them in shape.

I know people who were skinny when they joined and they thought it would make them buff.

I know people who lacked discipline and direction, so they joined because they thought the military would give them purpose.

The military isn't there to make you skinny. It's not there to make you buff. It's not there to give you discipline. Does the military exist to perform those functions or are they a byproduct of training to provide a fighting force?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Every single person that I know who has joined the military did so because they wanted improvement.
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This is an excellent point! Some school an training usually gets it done. If it works for the Transgender too, why do we even need to know?
 
MarAzul said:
This is an excellent point! Some school an training usually gets it done. If it works for the Transgender too, why do we even need to know?
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Transitioning from one gender to another is a medical condition that needs to be disclosed. It's not like they can hide it from the military, nor should they.
 
crandc said:
Transgender is not a mental illness. Actually neither is bigotry, just an undesirable trait.

Trump's attorney general won't resign no matter how much he's insulted. Trump can't get over losing popular vote 8 months after election. The Russia investigation is getting close to him and his family. North Korea is thumbing their nose. The Republican party is fracturing over how many people they should take health care away from. The tax cuts for the rich are not passed. His supporters are losing patience. The international community is just moving on without him. So he needs a new target. A supposedly easy target. Attack transpeople and the religious right will rise up and call him blessed.
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Science disagrees with your feelings.
 
The military has so many different types of jobs. Do you guys really give a shit who clerks in the supply office, or serves as a meteorologist on a carrier?

The military is a vast machine. There are hundreds of job types. When I joined the Navy back in 2001, I joined to be a journalist. It's not all about carrying a rifle.

If George Patton had decided he was actually a woman, do you think he would have been any less of a military strategist?
 
Natebishop3 said:
If George Patton had decided he was actually a woman, do you think he would have been any less of a military strategist?
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Well, I sure doubt she would have been George Patton. The bench mark for great American Generals.

Ps. I suspect Patton was not a real good strategist. But he was far the best tactical commander we had. His Strategy was, go to Germany as fast as he could get Gas.
Rather like Bull Halsey. Where you going Bull?
To Japan.
How you going to get there?
Kill Japs.
 
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I'm thinking that many high ranking military officials saw what happened with Bradley/Chelsea Manning and were upset at this, so they advised Trump of this action.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
I'm thinking that many high ranking military officials saw what happened with Bradley/Chelsea Manning and were upset at this, so they advised Trump of this action.
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You might be thinking that, but it appears that's not what happened. Seems he did it to resolve a budget fight in congress.

barfo
 
Nate said:
Science disagrees with your feelings.
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Per the ICD-10, transsexuality/transgender is presently covered under the dual-role transvestitism section and classified as a "disorder", as a subsection of the "Mental, behavioral, and neurodevelopmental disorders" grouping.

In fairness, homosexuality also was similarly classified for many decades, and is no longer.
 
Nate said:
Science disagrees with your feelings.
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Oh please, Nate, show me the "science".

Being Trump, he has not of course looked at implications, policy details are for "losers". He said in any capacity, not just active duty. That would definitely include reserves. What about National Guard? They are under state control but part of military. What about VA? The civilians working for the military?

What if transgender people don't quit, which is pretty much guaranteed? The military will spend millions throwing them out, then defending lawsuits. For years.

Far more disruptive than a transgender person serving.
 
It should also be noted he did not consult or inform the Pentagon
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Trump and Melo are saving this forum during the offseason.
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I would do that trade. I think the Knicks would also, given Trump's ability to swish foul shots while wearing a topcoat.

barfo
 
If someone is good at their job, non of this should matter. It should be like Star Trek....pointy ears are ok....even the occasional Klingon can contribute!
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Last year, the Obama administration lifted the ban on allowing transgender troops to serve openly.

Under the policy set by then-Defense Secretary Ash Carter, transgender troops also receive coverage for any treatment deemed medically necessary by their doctors, including surgery and hormone therapy.

That step left a decision for Trump Secretary of Defense James Mattis to make a decision on whether to allow new transgender troops to enter the military.

It wasn't immediately clear what Trump's announcement would mean for the approximately 250 transgender people now serving openly in the U.S. military.



Trump’s decision is a huge blow the LGBT community, which was just coming off a win after the surprising defeat of an amendment to the annual defense policy bill that would have banned Pentagon funding from being used for transition-related medical care.


But under the policy Carter crafted, transgender recruits weren’t allowed to enlist pending the end of a one-year implementation period.

That was supposed to end July 1. But the night before the change was to go into effect, Defense Secretary James Mattis issued a six-month delay in the policy to study the issue more.

In a memo explaining the delay, Mattis insisted that his decision does not “change policies and procedures currently in effect.”

Mattis also promised during his confirmation hearing that he wouldn’t reverse his predecessor’s decisions unless a service chief brings him hard evidence the policy is having a negative effect.

LGBT advocates were worried immediately after the election that Trump would roll back the transgender policy, which he has the power to do unilaterally since it is not a law.

They breathed a sigh of relief after Mattis’ confirmation hearing, but have since been fighting on issues such as the enlistment policy and medical care.

Earlier this month, the House voted 209-214 against banning Pentagon funding from being used for transition-related care. Twenty-four Republicans joined with Democrats to defeat the amendment to the annual defense policy bill.

Mattis opposed the amendment, confirming he called its sponsor, Rep. Vicky Hartzler (R-Mo.), at least once on the issue.

But some Republicans hoped to have a second chance, filing several similar amendments to the spending bill coming to the House floor Wednesday.

The Rules Committee finalized Tuesday night which amendments will get a vote on the House floor. None of the transgender-related amendments made it in.

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...or-ban-on-transgender-individuals-in-military
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+Approximately 250 out of hundreds of thousands. If a painted finger nail can pull a trigger or launch a missile: So what. Waiting for "Hate Hillary" comment tomorrow morning...........The POTOS should appreciate the military that protected his lazy ass. He never served. He is the cup cake.
 
This is, um, interesting...

“At the Pentagon, the first of the three tweets raised fears that the president was getting ready to announce strikes on North Korea or some other military action. Many said they were left in suspense for nine minutes, the time between the first and second tweet. Only after the second tweet did military officials receive the news the president was announcing a personnel change on Twitter.”
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barfo
 
Is it really true?
The Trany can enlist. And these are costs to change. Over 100k?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/health/transgender-costs-irpt/index.html

The kid with Dental work needed is rejected? Maybe a 1k worth?
"
b. Severe malocclusion (524) that interferes with normal mastication or requires early and protracted treatment; or relationship between mandible and maxilla that prevents satisfactory future prosthodontic replacement.
c. Insufficient natural healthy teeth (521) or lack of a serviceable prosthesis, preventing adequate mastication and incision of a normal diet. This includes complex (multiple fixture) dental implant systems that have associated complications that severely limit assignments and adversely affect performance of world-wide duty. Dental implants systems must be successfully osseointegrated and completed.
d. Orthodontic appliances for continued treatment (V53.4) (attached or removable). Retainer appliances are permissible, provided all active orthodontic treatment has been satisfactorily completed.

The trick is in the interpretation. We were told if the inductee had a problem that would possibly flare up during the basic training period to bounce them out. It was explained to us that basic is so tightly scheduled that the recruit will not have time to fix a dental problem. "


Is this the new social justice? Or is it just preferred social correctness?
:pokecrap:
 
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I have no idea what the military policy on dental problems is and do not see the relevance. I guess if your only defense is that you're prejudiced, you have to fly off on tangents. Kind of like Trump trying to deflect attention from his failures.

Now legal experts which I am not are starting to weigh in saying that Trump cannot reverse a policy by himself through tweets.

On this day in 1949 President Truman issued an order abolishing segregation and legal discrimination in the military. On this day in 2017 Trump issued three tweets reinstating gender identity discrimination in the military.
 
The National Defense Research Institute did an in-depth study. Assessing the Implications of Allowing Transgender Personnel to Serve Openly", which I am quite sure Trump did not read (neither, I am sure, did MarAzul, it's so much easier to call people full of bullshit than to, you know, know something about a subject)

https://books.google.com/books?id=Jb2pDAAAQBAJ&pg=PR11&lpg=PR11#v=onepage&q&f=false

The estimate the costs. Less than one Trump weekend golfing.
 
crandc said:
The National Defense Research Institute did an in-depth study. Assessing the Implications of Allowing Transgender Personnel to Serve Openly", which I am quite sure Trump did not read (neither, I am sure, did MarAzul, it's so much easier to call people full of bullshit than to, you know, know something about a subject)

https://books.google.com/books?id=Jb2pDAAAQBAJ&pg=PR11&lpg=PR11#v=onepage&q&f=false

The estimate the costs. Less than one Trump weekend golfing.
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The cost per Transgender is what? Is it different than the article I posted?
It is way more than they will spend on dental correction, isn't it?
 
crandc said:
Oh please, Nate, show me the "science".

Being Trump, he has not of course looked at implications, policy details are for "losers". He said in any capacity, not just active duty. That would definitely include reserves. What about National Guard? They are under state control but part of military. What about VA? The civilians working for the military?

What if transgender people don't quit, which is pretty much guaranteed? The military will spend millions throwing them out, then defending lawsuits. For years.

Far more disruptive than a transgender person serving.
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You might as well try to argue that bi-polar disorder isn't a mental illness.

Or anorexia

Or depression

Or schizophrenia

All things that will prevent a person from joining the military.

Just like having feet that are too flat.

Felons can't join the military.

People over the age of 29 cant join the military.

You know nothing about this, and clearly don't give a fuck about the military.

But this is a chance for you bitch about Trump, so I'm sure you'll take it, and claim it's for the greater good.

#flatfootlivesmatter
 
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crandc said:
It should also be noted he did not consult or inform the Pentagon
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Well he's the commander and chief of the military so.....

Unfucking the military might be the only good thing Trump will ever do. Obama fucked it up pretty bad though, so who knows if that's even possible.
 
My friend from high school couldn't join the military because he was born with one kidney.

Let's march on Washington!!!

Another friend couldn't join because he had irritable bowel syndrome.

#irritablebowelsmatter
 
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