OT Transgender wrestler

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Mediocre Man

Mediocre Man

Mr. SportsTwo
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http://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/ar...tle?sf182987459=1&sf183000759=1&sf183008868=1

This has an oportunity to turn ugly, but I was wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.

Mack is booed after beating the girls in wrestling, but Mack wants to wrestle boys. Texas will not let Mack wrestle boys though.

My issue is the PEDs Mack is taking to transform. Even if Mack was allowed to wrestle boys, Mack should be ineligible because of the drugs consumed to transform.

What say you?
 
Im more surprised that there are girls and boys divisions in wresting. From my memory everyone wrested everyone and all the guys hated it when they had to wrestle a girl because you either "beat a girl or were beat by a girl"
 
MarAzul said:
uh... I am lost for words....
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To me there is a simple fix. In a lot of states it goes by weight and not sex. That solves that problem. The PED use would make an athlete ineligible though, in my book. Girls wanting to be boys, boys wanting to be girls....I say be happy. However, there are consequences for things.
 
So he was born a girl and is transitioning to a boy. Wants to wrestle as a boy. But Texas passed a law in 2016 that makes it so he has to wrestle as a girl? Seems like it's Texas that needs to change its law.

As far as the drug thing go there is a difference from drugs prescribed by a physician and drugs taken illegally to improve performance. The drugs he's taking are for his transition, not to make him a better wrestler.
 
Mediocre Man said:
http://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/ar...tle?sf182987459=1&sf183000759=1&sf183008868=1

This has an oportunity to turn ugly, but I was wondering what peoples thoughts are on this.

Mack is booed after beating the girls in wrestling, but Mack wants to wrestle boys. Texas will not let Mack wrestle boys though.

My issue is the PEDs Mack is taking to transform. Even if Mack was allowed to wrestle boys, Mack should be ineligible because of the drugs consumed to transform.

What say you?
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I would tend to agree. Would biologically-male wrestlers be permitted to compete while using the same substances? If not, then it seems unfair to permit this wrestler to do so.

However, I would also say that if the decision is made to allow trans-gender therapies as an exception from PED regulation, then only cis-females should wrestle in the "girls" division.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
So he was born a girl and is transitioning to a boy. Wants to wrestle as a boy. But Texas passed a law in 2016 that makes it so he has to wrestle as a girl? Seems like it's Texas that needs to change its law.

As far as the drug thing go there is a difference from drugs prescribed by a physician and drugs taken illegally to improve performance. The drugs he's taking are for his transition, not to make him a better wrestler.
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Doesn't matter the reason. Still getting an advantage from them.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Doesn't matter the reason. Still getting an advantage from them.
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So the kid is following the law and doctor's orders but he should be punished for that? Seems like this is problem was created by the state of Texas, they should be the one who solve it.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I would tend to agree. Would biologically-male wrestlers be permitted to compete while using the same substances? If not, then it seems unfair to permit this wrestler to do so.

However, I would also say that if the decision is made to allow trans-gender therapies as an exception from PED regulation, then only cis-females should wrestle in the "girls" division.
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At some point it seems government must admit, this is above and beyond normal duty. We have no role. Sort of like they have no role in a Circus show.
Better done by the ticket sales.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I would tend to agree. Would biologically-male wrestlers be permitted to compete while using the same substances? If not, then it seems unfair to permit this wrestler to do so.
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I guess it comes down to the Testosterone levels overall. Would a teenage boy be considered to be on PED because his glands are squirting testosterone into his body at a huge rate? If this wrestler's t-levels are the same as a teenage boy's, then there's no advantage.
 
SportsAndWhine said:
I guess it comes down to the Testosterone levels overall. Would a teenage boy be considered to be on PED because his glands are squirting testosterone into his body at a huge rate? If this wrestler's t-levels are the same as a teenage boy's, then there's no advantage.
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Agreed--I was revising my own stance as you posted that.

SlyPokerDog said:
So the kid is following the law and doctor's orders but he should be punished for that? Seems like this is problem was created by the state of Texas, they should be the one who solve it.
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Agreed. Texas should change the rule. If you're born a male, you compete against boys. If you identify as male, you compete against boys. If you're taking testosterone to transition to male, you provide medical documentation showing that your testosterone levels are within the average teenage male biological range, and you compete against boys.

If you were born female, identify as female, and are taking no performance-enhancing substances (prescribed or otherwise), then and only then do you compete against girls.

I don't think it's all that complicated, honestly.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
So the kid is following the law and doctor's orders but he should be punished for that? Seems like this is problem was created by the state of Texas, they should be the one who solve it.
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He should be allowed to compete as a boy. Simple as that. Essentially he's taking steroids to aid his transition so it makes no sense for him to compete against girls.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Texas should change the rule. If you're born a male, you compete against boys. If you identify as male, you compete against boys. If you're taking testosterone to transition to male, you provide medical documentation showing that your testosterone levels are within the average teenage male biological range, and you compete against boys.

If you were born female, identify as female, and are taking no performance-enhancing substances (prescribed or otherwise), then and only then do you compete against girls.

I don't think it's all that complicated, honestly.
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tlongII said:
He should be allowed to compete as a boy. Simple as that. Essentially he's taking steroids to aid his transition so it makes no sense for him to compete against girls.
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These laws aren't about being reasonable, they are about making it so trans people can't do anything in public, about chipping away at freedoms until they "conform" to their birth-assigned gender or... disappear in whatever way that probably involves suicide or exodus.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
So the kid is following the law and doctor's orders but he should be punished for that? Seems like this is problem was created by the state of Texas, they should be the one who solve it.
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I agree. Mack has done nothing wrong. I know at my sons school, kids have been thrown off the team for being caught with PEDs.
 
SportsAndWhine said:
Totally makes sense given how much the worship HS football. Gotta keep it clean and fair.
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Ya. Like I said, Mack's not at fault, but the situation is a bit more complicated that wrestling a certain gender. A known user of steroids shouldn't be able to compete.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Ya. Like I said, Mack's not at fault, but the situation is a bit more complicated that wrestling a certain gender. A known user of steroids shouldn't be able to compete.
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From your article, "Beggs is in the process of transitioning from female to male and taking a low dose of testosterone."

Yes testosterone is considered a steroid but it is not a steroid that is abused for an athletic advantage.

Testosterone will not enhance athletic performance and should not be used for that purpose.

https://www.drugs.com/testosterone.html

Also testosterone is used in some asthma inhalers, which again, is being prescribed by a doctor.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Ya. Like I said, Mack's not at fault, but the situation is a bit more complicated that wrestling a certain gender. A known user of steroids shouldn't be able to compete.
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If his t-levels aren't above a normal amount for a boy his age, then it's not a big deal. If they're above the level of the highest clean wrestler in Texas, then bench him or make him reduce his dose. Heck, a reasonable compromise would be to ask him to reduce his dose a bit during the season, then let him do whatever he wants after. But I bet his levels are lower than average for a boy his age.
 
SportsAndWhine said:
If his t-levels aren't above a normal amount for a boy his age, then it's not a big deal. If they're above the level of the highest clean wrestler in Texas, then bench him or make him reduce his dose. Heck, a reasonable compromise would be to ask him to reduce his dose a bit during the season, then let him do whatever he wants after.
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Going against what is being prescribed by a physician to their patient could be dangerous.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Again, testosterone is a steroid but is not used for athletic advantage.
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Agreed, and in a fair world he wouldn't have to compromise as long as his t-levels are the same as ay other boy his age; I'm just trying to be practical in the face of idiot Texan laws. If you can make some compromise that lets him wrestle, and doesn't harm him or his transition timeline, it's gotta be on the table.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
From your article, "Beggs is in the process of transitioning from female to male and taking a low dose of testosterone."

Yes testosterone is considered a steroid but it is not a steroid that is abused for an athletic advantage.

Testosterone will not enhance athletic performance and should not be used for that purpose.

https://www.drugs.com/testosterone.html

Also testosterone is used in some asthma inhalers, which again, is being prescribed by a doctor.
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Athletes that get tested can't use those inhalers because they are illegal
 
SportsAndWhine said:
If his t-levels aren't above a normal amount for a boy his age, then it's not a big deal. If they're above the level of the highest clean wrestler in Texas, then bench him or make him reduce his dose. Heck, a reasonable compromise would be to ask him to reduce his dose a bit during the season, then let him do whatever he wants after. But I bet his levels are lower than average for a boy his age.
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Yes
 
I think if she wants to wrestle boys then let her wrestle boys.

Oh, and if anyone doesn't like my choice of pronouns. That's not my problem. I don't use them to offend anyone. I have no problem with transgender people. I do have Aspergers though, and something called literal thinking which won't allow me to call something that I see as something different. If I see a girl then must be a girl, if I see a tree, etc. . I believe that is my right, and nobody should be allowed to tell me that I have to think or say otherwise.
 
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