Trevor Ariza

[NJNetz]

i personally dont like the knicks but i am really impressed by the game play of Trevor Ariza. he is playin great for his first year. his numbers dont show it but i seen a lot of amazing plays from him. i think in a few years he will became a great player. What r ur thoughts about Trevor Ariza

 

[Mr. J]

He will become a good player and has done amazing things just minutes ago before halftime in the Knicks/Pistons game. What you said is very important His numbers don't show it. Certain things don't show up in the stat sheet but that means little. Ariza will be a great player in the league. We should try and lock him why we have the chance.

 

[Skiptomylue11]

Ariza really seems like a good player. He is athletic and has good hops and hustle. With a little work on his long-mid range shot he will be a formidable player. Quite a steal for a second rounder.

 

[jbbCourtVision]

Damn good player and young to boot. What impresses me is not his offensive game (which is pretty solid for a rookie) but the little things that he does on the court. Dude is a good offensive rebounded and a nice defender who will only get better as his career gets older. A steal for the Knicks.

 

[Mr. J]

A real steal. The funny thing is that he was another 43rd pick like Michael Redd, Stephen Jackson and Eric Snow. Good thing we have a future NBA superstar in our midst. Let's try and lock this guy up. If we throw any money, it should be at him. Too bad he's injuried though.

 

[Sex Panther]

The knicks haven't had a guy with this much potential since Mark Jackson and Ewing. With more minutes, I can see himm putting up 18, 5 and 4 in a year or two.

 

[P.A.P.]

Looks like a real good player. I thought he would enter in 2003, but it looked like he wasn't going to get drafted, so he went to UCLA to raise his stock (didn't raise much). He's a real athlete with good defense, needs to be a better overall team player and obviously a better jumper. I wouldn't say he's going to be a superstar...that word is overused, but I think he'll become a good player, possibly a star player, gotta wait and see.

 

[Vintage]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">A real steal. The funny thing is that he was another 43rd pick like Michael Redd, Stephen Jackson and Eric Snow. Good thing we have a future NBA superstar in our midst. Let's try and lock this guy up. If we throw any money, it should be at him. Too bad he's injuried though.

</div>


Future superstar?

 

[Mr. J]

Yes, future superstar. He has all the potential in the world to.

 

[Vintage]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, future superstar. He has all the potential in the world to.</div>

You really think he will be on Dirk's, Shaq's, McGrady's, Bryant's, Duncan's, and Garnett's level?

That's some pretty elite company.

 

[Mr. J]

In a couple of years I honestly do. He is only 19 years old and is playing in New York. The thing that is different about NY from most teams is the pressure and expectations that they have. For the youngest Knick in the franchises history to actually get playing time and deal with the pressure well, I see big things for him. I'm not going to go and say he will be the MVP of the league or something like that. I see him being maybe a 2nd teamer or maybe just maybe even first. He's got a lot of talent, and a very good work ethic for his age and he is only 19 years old. He is the next LeBron James! Na man, I'm just playing but I really do see him putting up some great numbers and becoming a good player.

 

[P.A.P.]

Many players have potential to be superstars, but they aren't

TD, KG, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron are the only superstars. LeBron will be classified as a superstar after he gets an MVP award this season, or gets first team, and leads his team to the 2nd seed in the East.

 

[Vintage]

There is a difference between a good player and putting up good numbers and being a superstar.

Deng and Gordon....(not to be a homer) have shown more flashes of being a superstar than Ariza has. And Deng is the same age. And Chicago isn't exactly an easy place to play with, with Jordan's legacy overshadowing everything the franchise does.

Do I expect Deng and Gordon to be superstars? Nope. In fact, I don't think anyone on the Bulls current roster is going to become a superstar. But Detroit proved last year that you don't need a superstar to win it all.

My honest take on Ariza: Right now he is a role player. If you can get a role player in the 2nd round, you have done well. Most 2nd rounders never stick. Ariza looks like he could become a potential starter, perhaps a solid starter, maybe exceed a little higher. But if you look at the East, James, Wade, Iverson, Pierce, Carter, and Jefferson look to give the East G/F spot a run every year.

Ariza has to crack a lot of good players to become an All-Star.......let alone a superstar.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">There is a difference between a good player and putting up good numbers and being a superstar.

Deng and Gordon....(not to be a homer) have shown more flashes of being a superstar than Ariza has. And Deng is the same age. And Chicago isn't exactly an easy place to play with, with Jordan's legacy overshadowing everything the franchise does.

Do I expect Deng and Gordon to be superstars? Nope. In fact, I don't think anyone on the Bulls current roster is going to become a superstar. But Detroit proved last year that you don't need a superstar to win it all.

My honest take on Ariza: Right now he is a role player. If you can get a role player in the 2nd round, you have done well. Most 2nd rounders never stick. Ariza looks like he could become a potential starter, perhaps a solid starter, maybe exceed a little higher. But if you look at the East, James, Wade, Iverson, Pierce, Carter, and Jefferson look to give the East G/F spot a run every year.

Ariza has to crack a lot of good players to become an All-Star.......let alone a superstar.</div>

I understand what you are saying however, Ariza does not get the same time as most young players in Chicago. Chicago is just filled with young players that even start. There are so many young players in Chicago who get more time than Ariza so they probably have shown more than Ariza.

I know with Jordan gone expectations are high however, I don't think as high as New York. Chicago has seen many unsuccessful seasons as of late so losing in Chicago is not the same as New York. New York wants results and they want them now so, a rebuilding season is very hard to do. As a GM you will probably get fired even attempting such a feat.

I think Ariza will become more than just a potential starter. I see him becoming a very solid player that will thrive in the NBA. He's young with a great work ethic, and a great attitude. I mean his jumper is not so good now, but if you look at him back when he was in UCLA, you would have seen a huge improvement. Well Vintage you mentioned Wade and Jefferson. Both looked like some solid rookies however, I think it is pretty safe to say that they exceeded expectations. One might even consider them superstars at this stage or definitely in the future. I see no different from Ariza. He has all the tools the talent and the work ethic which so many players lack especially at the age of 19. He?s basically a teenager and only a couple of years older than me. I see him becoming an All-Star and a potential superstar.

I also think that the word superstar is too controversial. Many people have different opinions of the word ?superstar.? It doesn?t have an actual definition. Superstar in your opinion might be different from superstar in my opinion. I do see him becoming the next player on the same level as Dirk, and the rest of them though.

 

[02civic]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I understand what you are saying however, Ariza does not get the same time as most young players in Chicago. Chicago is just filled with young players that even start. There are so many young players in Chicago who get more time than Ariza so they probably have shown more than Ariza.

I know with Jordan gone expectations are high however, I don't think as high as New York. Chicago has seen many unsuccessful seasons as of late so losing in Chicago is not the same as New York. New York wants results and they want them now so, a rebuilding season is very hard to do. As a GM you will probably get fired even attempting such a feat.

I think Ariza will become more than just a potential starter. I see him becoming a very solid player that will thrive in the NBA. He's young with a great work ethic, and a great attitude. I mean his jumper is not so good now, but if you look at him back when he was in UCLA, you would have seen a huge improvement. Well Vintage you mentioned Wade and Jefferson. Both looked like some solid rookies however, I think it is pretty safe to say that they exceeded expectations. One might even consider them superstars at this stage or definitely in the future. I see no different from Ariza. He has all the tools the talent and the work ethic which so many players lack especially at the age of 19. He?s basically a teenager and only a couple of years older than me. I see him becoming an All-Star and a potential superstar.

I also think that the word superstar is too controversial. Many people have different opinions of the word ?superstar.? It doesn?t have an actual definition. Superstar in your opinion might be different from superstar in my opinion. I do see him becoming the next player on the same level as Dirk, and the rest of them though.</div>


He's definately a solid player, good diamond in the rough type of player picked late in the 2nd round.
I think the proper use of 'superstar" is forgotten, and gets slapped on to many players. I try to follow the NBA Live games levels of difficulty. So its Rookie(but we'll say role/bench player), Starter, All-Star, Superstar. I dont think Jefferson or Wade fit into the Superstar realm. They are in the running for All-Star consideration, so they'd probably go there. Ariza right now is where he should be, at the Rookie/bench player, but you can definately see potential to be a starter in a few years. I guess its possible for him to go beyond our expectations, much like Jefferson and Wade did, but then again they did look a bit better in their first year than Ariza does. And thats not to take anything away from the young guy, he's done well considering the plight of his team. I see him in the future being a solid starter with a few years of All-star consideration numbers, maybe even an All-star team or two, but beyond that, unless he grows has a player much much more than even the good rookies do, i dont see him becoming a Superstar. Wade, ya maybe if he keeps it up. Jefferson, no i dont think so. Bosh...possibly with time, effort and a some luck. Deng...potential is there but he might stop at the perenial all-star level. But I dont think Ariza has the qualities that the Dirks, the KG's or even the Lebrons. He doesnt have the body for it, though he's still young yet. But also he's not 7-0, he doesnt have out of this world athletic abilities, or lightnight quickness and handles. And i think those are the things that superstars have. I see him being above average, but anything higher that that might be expecting to much.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Chicago has seen many unsuccessful seasons as of late so losing in Chicago is not the same as New York.</div>

Chicago has had 6 years of below .500 basketball, many of them coming with less than 20 wins. But New York themselves have had 3 kinda rough years winning only 40% of thier games over that span. Agreed that most people would cringe or throw a hissy fit over the idea of rebuilding but perhaps that would be best. Rebuild for the 2007 season when most of the bad contracts will be gone, and whatever draft picks will have had time to develope, and then over one or two offseasons rebuild a solid team filled with a good mix of scorers, play makers and role players with all of them being at least average defenders, if not excellent defenders. Bring back some of that hard nosed Knick style with solid young and average aged players with reasonable contracts, and try to grow has a team...try to rebuild the dynasty. Because the Jamal Crawfords, Antawn Jamisons and Glenn Robinsons wont get this team anything more than a 500 record and a few home games in the playoffs.
Maybe it would be best to follow Chicago's lead? You would think with the level of success they were at before the rebuilding stage that it would be harder for them to do it than the Knicks. Chicago is also a basketball haven with the sports beat writers galor and the high expectations and pressure, but it might work for them. Maybe it could work for New York.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">He's definately a solid player, good diamond in the rough type of player picked late in the 2nd round.
I think the proper use of 'superstar" is forgotten, and gets slapped on to many players. I try to follow the NBA Live games levels of difficulty. So its Rookie(but we'll say role/bench player), Starter, All-Star, Superstar. I dont think Jefferson or Wade fit into the Superstar realm. They are in the running for All-Star consideration, so they'd probably go there. Ariza right now is where he should be, at the Rookie/bench player, but you can definately see potential to be a starter in a few years. I guess its possible for him to go beyond our expectations, much like Jefferson and Wade did, but then again they did look a bit better in their first year than Ariza does. And thats not to take anything away from the young guy, he's done well considering the plight of his team. I see him in the future being a solid starter with a few years of All-star consideration numbers, maybe even an All-star team or two, but beyond that, unless he grows has a player much much more than even the good rookies do, i dont see him becoming a Superstar. Wade, ya maybe if he keeps it up. Jefferson, no i dont think so. Bosh...possibly with time, effort and a some luck. Deng...potential is there but he might stop at the perenial all-star level. But I dont think Ariza has the qualities that the Dirks, the KG's or even the Lebrons. He doesnt have the body for it, though he's still young yet. But also he's not 7-0, he doesnt have out of this world athletic abilities, or lightnight quickness and handles. And i think those are the things that superstars have. I see him being above average, but anything higher that that might be expecting to much.</div>
First of all, I don't think a videogames standards should are accurate in rating a player and/or his abilities. I mean these are the same people that think Tim Thomas is better than Kurt Thomas. Again whether he is on the bench or not means nothing. He still is a rookie and most rookies do not get playing time. Super exceptional rookies like LeBron James, do get those minutes. That still can?t determine the abilities of Ariza. Of course he doesn?t have the qualities of KG or Dirk or James yet. People didn?t think that Jermaine O?Neal was the superstar that he developed into. I wouldn?t think that one?s physical attributes that are yet to be developed can determine the success they will have as a player. But, Ariza does have out of this world athletic abilities anyway. I have no idea where that came from. Because he is like most rookies including KG and including Bosh and doesn?t have a basketball body yet doesn?t make him a potential superstar?!?! I am struggling to realize why you think so. Many rookies come into the league like that and because James didn?t it doesn?t make him a potential one? Ariza is not a superstar. The key word is DEVELOP into one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Chicago has had 6 years of below .500 basketball, many of them coming with less than 20 wins. But New York themselves have had 3 kinda rough years winning only 40% of thier games over that span. Agreed that most people would cringe or throw a hissy fit over the idea of rebuilding but perhaps that would be best. Rebuild for the 2007 season when most of the bad contracts will be gone, and whatever draft picks will have had time to develope, and then over one or two offseasons rebuild a solid team filled with a good mix of scorers, play makers and role players with all of them being at least average defenders, if not excellent defenders. Bring back some of that hard nosed Knick style with solid young and average aged players with reasonable contracts, and try to grow has a team...try to rebuild the dynasty. Because the Jamal Crawfords, Antawn Jamisons and Glenn Robinsons wont get this team anything more than a 500 record and a few home games in the playoffs.
Maybe it would be best to follow Chicago's lead? You would think with the level of success they were at before the rebuilding stage that it would be harder for them to do it than the Knicks. Chicago is also a basketball haven with the sports beat writers galor and the high expectations and pressure, but it might work for them. Maybe it could work for New York.</div>
Maybe they should? Maybe they shouldn?t knock down the whole tower and build up from where they are. I don?t know. Who knows what they should do. The fact of the matter is NY is a place with tons of expectations and much pressure arguably the most in the NBA. Ariza in my opinion is a future NBA superstar.

 

[02civic]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, I don't think a videogames standards should are accurate in rating a player and/or his abilities. I mean these are the same people that think Tim Thomas is better than Kurt Thomas. Again whether he is on the bench or not means nothing. He still is a rookie and most rookies do not get playing time. Super exceptional rookies like LeBron James, do get those minutes. That still can?t determine the abilities of Ariza. </div>

Well of course video games standards arent fool proof, but i think if you're going to classify the quality of players there's nothing wrong with saying bench, starter, all star and superstar. Maybe add "star" inbetween starter and all star even. And thats true, he is still a rookie which is why i mentioned numerous times that he looks pretty good for a young guy. And of course we're not determining the abilities of Ariza based on how many minutes he's playing..i'm not sure where you're going with it.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course he doesn?t have the qualities of KG or Dirk or James yet. People didn?t think that Jermaine O?Neal was the superstar that he developed into. I wouldn?t think that one?s physical attributes that are yet to be developed can determine the success they will have as a player. But, Ariza does have out of this world athletic abilities anyway. I have no idea where that came from. Because he is like most rookies including KG and including Bosh and doesn?t have a basketball body yet doesn?t make him a potential superstar?!?! I am struggling to realize why you think so. Many rookies come into the league like that and because James didn?t it doesn?t make him a potential one? Ariza is not a superstar. The key word is DEVELOP into one.</div>

First off i want to start by saying i dont believe Jermaine Oneal is a superstar. In my opinion, there are only a handful of superstars in the league. They are Shaq, Kobe, Yao, Duncan, Carter, Iverson and Lebron. You might question why Carter, Yao, Iverson and Lebron are on there, but i personally think that the term superstar means all the skills and abilities of a star and more + the media prescence to go with it. The players listed above are the most markatable players, even if they dont represent the 7 best players in the league, they are the 7 most recognizable, and 7 most markatable because of their skills.
Second off, again I have to ask where you're going with this? I dont think he has "out of this world" athletic abilities, those guys only come around once every few years. He's good...but not head and shoulders above the other guys good.
Third, I'm not saying he wont be superstar because of his body. Being thin, doesnt help his cause, but thats not everything when you're a 19 year old basketball player, size will come if he works hard. What i'm saying is at 6-8 and pretty thin, he's got more work ahead of him to reach that level than the Lebrons, the Carmelo's and the Bosh's. Lebron and Carmelo, besides being more talented than him already have the bodies for it. And Bosh, and KG like you mentioned, they didnt have the bodies but they had the height, which made it alot easier for them. A reason he'll have a tough time becoming a superstar like you say confidently he will is that the position he plays is stacked in the NBA, look at all the players he'll have to grow faster than and surpass just to be considered an all-star!!!

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Maybe they should? Maybe they shouldn?t knock down the whole tower and build up from where they are. I don?t know. Who knows what they should do. The fact of the matter is NY is a place with tons of expectations and much pressure arguably the most in the NBA. Ariza in my opinion is a future NBA superstar.</div>

Everyone's entitled to their opinions. Though you're is still not clear to me since you havent defined to me what you're definition of a superstar is. Do you men he'll be top 10 in the league? Will he be top 50 but have a huge shoe and soft drink deal making him into a media icon? There are alot of players that came into the league with more skill, and more "upside" to their games that havent and probably wont be considered a superstar ever in their career. Pau Gasol and Dirk for example. Their stars, but not quite superstars in my humble opinion.
Anyways, we are free to our own thoughts. I think Bosh is a great player, but i dont think he'll ever be a superstar, just a solid all-star. Thats just my 2cents.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">Well of course video games standards arent fool proof, but i think if you're going to classify the quality of players there's nothing wrong with saying bench, starter, all star and superstar. Maybe add "star" inbetween starter and all star even. And thats true, he is still a rookie which is why i mentioned numerous times that he looks pretty good for a young guy. And of course we're not determining the abilities of Ariza based on how many minutes he's playing..i'm not sure where you're going with it.</div>
I don't see where Live comes in but I guess you could classify a player like the difficulty level.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First off i want to start by saying i dont believe Jermaine Oneal is a superstar. In my opinion, there are only a handful of superstars in the league. They are Shaq, Kobe, Yao, Duncan, Carter, Iverson and Lebron. You might question why Carter, Yao, Iverson and Lebron are on there, but i personally think that the term superstar means all the skills and abilities of a star and more + the media prescence to go with it. The players listed above are the most markatable players, even if they dont represent the 7 best players in the league, they are the 7 most recognizable, and 7 most markatable because of their skills.</div>
Well Yao has definitely not reached all the stars and abilities of a superstar. In fact, many people and including members here in JBB feel that he is the most overrated player in the entire NBA. Carter is not the same Vinsanity that used to all make us jump out of our seats. The man is still a good player but, he is not at that level that he used to be. Because he can still throw it down and do all those fancy moves and is marketable that makes him a superstar? However, because he is crowd favorite and marketable does not make him a superstar. Duncan is a great player arguably the best in the world! But, I think there are many more marketable players than him. I think he just has the talent and not the marketability. If you feel that a superstar is a marketable player that has great skills, then Trevor Ariza will fit in your description perfectly. He will turn into a great player with some great skills and is exciting too. He has great athleticism is very entertaining and to top it all off, he will be playing in the biggest market in the NBA...New York. I think that sounds very marketable to me.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Second off, again I have to ask where you're going with this? I dont think he has "out of this world" athletic abilities, those guys only come around once every few years. He's good...but not head and shoulders above the other guys good.</div>
Trevor Ariza does have out of this world athletic abilities. How many people did he dunk on how high is his vertical. How many miles an hour does he travel on the court. This guy is extremely athletic. He's one of the most athletic people in the whole draft last year.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Third, I'm not saying he wont be superstar because of his body. Being thin, doesnt help his cause, but thats not everything when you're a 19 year old basketball player, size will come if he works hard. What i'm saying is at 6-8 and pretty thin, he's got more work ahead of him to reach that level than the Lebrons, the Carmelo's and the Bosh's. Lebron and Carmelo, besides being more talented than him already have the bodies for it. And Bosh, and KG like you mentioned, they didnt have the bodies but they had the height, which made it alot easier for them. A reason he'll have a tough time becoming a superstar like you say confidently he will is that the position he plays is stacked in the NBA, look at all the players he'll have to grow faster than and surpass just to be considered an all-star!!!</div>
In your first post you said "But I dont think Ariza has the qualities that the Dirks, the KG's or even the Lebrons. He doesnt have the body for it, though he's still young yet." That sounds to me like you are using his body as an excuse. I don't know how him being skinny in his first year at age 19 doesn't make him a potential all-star. First of all, I wouldn't really consider Bosh on the same level as LeBron or Carmelo. Ariza has decent height at 6'8 and his long arms make it even better for him. I don?t really see the SF spot being really stacked at all. Before James and Anthony came, there were not many great SF?s. I mean Marion and Peja were the only great SF's I can think of. Even if you think it is stacked, that doesn't mean anything. He can still become a superstar. Ariza is a fast grower! From where he started from where he is now, it has been incredible. Those who follow the Knicks know that he has a great work ethic which is another thing that seperates him from a lot of other rookies especially at his age.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Everyone's entitled to their opinions. Though you're is still not clear to me since you havent defined to me what you're definition of a superstar is. Do you men he'll be top 10 in the league? Will he be top 50 but have a huge shoe and soft drink deal making him into a media icon? There are alot of players that came into the league with more skill, and more "upside" to their games that havent and probably wont be considered a superstar ever in their career. Pau Gasol and Dirk for example. Their stars, but not quite superstars in my humble opinion.
Anyways, we are free to our own thoughts. I think Bosh is a great player, but i dont think he'll ever be a superstar, just a solid all-star. Thats just my 2cents.</div>
I thought you think Dirk is a superstar. You put him in the same category with James and KG. Anyway, I think a superstar is a great player and entertainer who has been dominated the league for at least 3 years. Many people consider Dirk a superstar, once Gasol gets more success in his career than I think people will consider him a star. I think Ariza will be on a superstar level in a little while.

 

[02civic]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't see where Live comes in but I guess you could classify a player like the difficulty level. </div>

I only brought Live in since they use those same descriptions for level of difficulty, and i think with the addition of the "star" class, it could be used to classify players into the different headings.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well Yao has definitely not reached all the stars and abilities of a superstar. In fact, many people and including members here in JBB feel that he is the most overrated player in the entire NBA. Carter is not the same Vinsanity that used to all make us jump out of our seats. The man is still a good player but, he is not at that level that he used to be. Because he can still throw it down and do all those fancy moves and is marketable that makes him a superstar? However, because he is crowd favorite and marketable does not make him a superstar. Duncan is a great player arguably the best in the world! But, I think there are many more marketable players than him. I think he just has the talent and not the marketability. If you feel that a superstar is a marketable player that has great skills, then Trevor Ariza will fit in your description perfectly. He will turn into a great player with some great skills and is exciting too. He has great athleticism is very entertaining and to top it all off, he will be playing in the biggest market in the NBA...New York. I think that sounds very marketable to me. </div>

Yao, i'm not a big fan of Yao really and i know alot of others think he's overrated. But his numbers are pretty solid already and he's only 24! Big men take longer to develop and Yao still could improve. But no he's not the player some people make him out to be. He needs an edge, just a little bit of nastyness to his game before he can truly be considered a superstar based purely on skills. I call him a superstar though not because of skills alone. He is skillful, no doubt he's a star, probably among the better ones especially when you consider how important centers are and how few of them there are left. But he's a superstar because with his skills and his asian decent comes HUGE media publicity, recognizability and corporate dollar signs. I think a superstar is just a top star that stricks it big with the public leading to endorsements, movies, music, magazine articles...all that junk. Jason Kidd at his height wasnt a superstar becuase, even though he was and still is great, he didnt have the same draw that the real superstars have. Carter for example isnt exaclty the same player he was when he made it big. He's improved since being in New Jersey (the biatch

) but skill wise he's not top 5 anymore. But regardless, he still is one of the leagues top players, he's still one of the big ticket items that puts butts in seats and he's still one of the most recognizable faces in basketball. He's a superstar that's slowly coming down to earth, but he's still a superstar for now.
I'd say Yao and Carter are both superstars based on 1/3rd skill level, 2/3rds publicity/image/media.
Duncan is a for sure. His jersey is in the top 10 most sold, his face is plastered over everything NBA related because of his clean has clear image, and he's got the rings, the current team record, the MVP title's and the skills to back it all up. He's a superstar because he's got the skills and the media.
Duncan i'd say is more a superstar for his on court abilities than his ability to sell a lunch box, i'd say he's a 2/3rd skill an 1/3 image "superstar".

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
In your first post you said "But I dont think Ariza has the qualities that the Dirks, the KG's or even the Lebrons. He doesnt have the body for it, though he's still young yet." That sounds to me like you are using his body as an excuse. I don't know how him being skinny in his first year at age 19 doesn't make him a potential all-star. </div>

No i meant it like, "he doesnt have the body composition of a Lebron=phenom type build for a 19 year old, and he's not 6-11/7.0 like KG, Bosh, Dirk."
Most the stars now and days have two types entering the league a) tall: 6-11 or 7 foot 2) terrific body size and make up for his age. Ariza isnt ruled out of the superstar level because of his size, but their arent that many skinny average height stars in the league anymore. There are some i know that, but its a bit harder for him since not only does he have to improve his gameplay by leaps and bounds, but do so while building his body to have more NBA potential. Its tough to fine tune your game on that level while your bodies changing so much. He couldnt put on 20 pounds and play the exact same way, its a variable he'll have to account for, compensating for the difficencies the weight gives him while also learning how to use his new body to be the superstar you say he could be.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
First of all, I wouldn't really consider Bosh on the same level as LeBron or Carmelo. </div>
At this point in Bosh's career I wouldnt hesitate to say he has MORE potential than Carmelo based not only on his skills but also his attitude, his work ethic and his height. He's young yet, only just turned 20 and big men develop a bit slower than gaurds and forwards, so dont give up on him yet. When i think of the future i see Bosh occupying the top 10 list in for a good chunk of his career.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Ariza has decent height at 6'8 and his long arms make it even better for him. I don?t really see the SF spot being really stacked at all. Before James and Anthony came, there were not many great SF?s. I mean Marion and Peja were the only great SF's I can think of. Even if you think it is stacked, that doesn't mean anything. He can still become a superstar. Ariza is a fast grower! From where he started from where he is now, it has been incredible. Those who follow the Knicks know that he has a great work ethic which is another thing that seperates him from a lot of other rookies especially at his age.</div>

Oh man, so many good 3's in the NBA its not even funny. I'll try naming a few, if i get some shooting guards dont blame me to much.
Peirce, Shard, C Mag, Jamison, Carter, Carmelo, Marion, Peja, Hill, Jefferson, AK47. Carter might be a gaurd, but he plays SF alot too. Anyways thats a few gaurds, and there's alot of up and coming SF's to like Iggy and Deng for example.
And i respect your opinion that he will be become a superstar. My suggestion though is not to put to much pressure on him. You sometimes talk like he's a lock to be one of the best players in the game, when there are numerous players that have as good of and a few better chances of becoming superstars as well.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
I thought you think Dirk is a superstar. You put him in the same category with James and KG. Anyway, I think a superstar is a great player and entertainer who has been dominated the league for at least 3 years. Many people consider Dirk a superstar, once Gasol gets more success in his career than I think people will consider him a star. I think Ariza will be on a superstar level in a little while.</div>


no i personally dont think Dirk is a superstar yet. He's a great player with great skills but he's been on loaded teams for years not and hasnt won anything yet. But besides that he's not marketed has hard as the other guys i mentioned, which i think leaves him on the outside looking in for now. Though i think he's a terrific talent, top 10 in the league for sure...i wouldnt call him a superstar yet.

 

[JWohl]

Ariza

He has been great this year, shattering expectations. Remember back in training cmap when we werent sure if he would be on the team? Worked out pretty well. Best draft pick since, well, before my lifetime (im only 14 but even so its a long time without a great draft pick)

 

[Mr. J]

Sorry I?m late on this thread, it slipped my mind and looking back I remembered.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">Yao, i'm not a big fan of Yao really and i know alot of others think he's overrated. But his numbers are pretty solid already and he's only 24! Big men take longer to develop and Yao still could improve. But no he's not the player some people make him out to be. He needs an edge, just a little bit of nastyness to his game before he can truly be considered a superstar based purely on skills. I call him a superstar though not because of skills alone. He is skillful, no doubt he's a star, probably among the better ones especially when you consider how important centers are and how few of them there are left. But he's a superstar because with his skills and his asian decent comes HUGE media publicity, recognizability and corporate dollar signs. I think a superstar is just a top star that stricks it big with the public leading to endorsements, movies, music, magazine articles...all that junk. Jason Kidd at his height wasnt a superstar becuase, even though he was and still is great, he didnt have the same draw that the real superstars have. Carter for example isnt exaclty the same player he was when he made it big. He's improved since being in New Jersey (the biatch

) but skill wise he's not top 5 anymore. But regardless, he still is one of the leagues top players, he's still one of the big ticket items that puts butts in seats and he's still one of the most recognizable faces in basketball. He's a superstar that's slowly coming down to earth, but he's still a superstar for now.</div>
So it?s just the publicity they get? If Jason Kidd wasn?t a superstar, then that?s your opinion. So basically the only reason why Yao Ming is a superstar is because he is a decent big man who is Asian?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd say Yao and Carter are both superstars based on 1/3rd skill level, 2/3rds publicity/image/media.
Duncan is a for sure. His jersey is in the top 10 most sold, his face is plastered over everything NBA related because of his clean has clear image, and he's got the rings, the current team record, the MVP title's and the skills to back it all up. He's a superstar because he's got the skills and the media.
Duncan i'd say is more a superstar for his on court abilities than his ability to sell a lunch box, i'd say he's a 2/3rd skill an 1/3 image "superstar".</div>
Well I found Jason Kidd?s Jersey and he was 6th in the most sold. I don?t see anything his name is really plastered too. Mostly guards and enthusiastic big men like Shaq is what you will see. Not many people get excited watching 7 footers bank 15 foot shots. He really doesn?t get too much publicity especially for someone who doesn?t follow the NBA.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No i meant it like, "he doesnt have the body composition of a Lebron=phenom type build for a 19 year old, and he's not 6-11/7.0 like KG, Bosh, Dirk."
Most the stars now and days have two types entering the league a) tall: 6-11 or 7 foot 2) terrific body size and make up for his age. Ariza isnt ruled out of the superstar level because of his size, but their arent that many skinny average height stars in the league anymore. There are some i know that, but its a bit harder for him since not only does he have to improve his gameplay by leaps and bounds, but do so while building his body to have more NBA potential. Its tough to fine tune your game on that level while your bodies changing so much. He couldnt put on 20 pounds and play the exact same way, its a variable he'll have to account for, compensating for the difficencies the weight gives him while also learning how to use his new body to be the superstar you say he could be.</div>
So he can?t deal with that? So if you come in the league skinny and are averaged sized with long arms and a world of work ethic and talent, you can?t become a superstar? If that?s the case I guess not. EVERY player adjusts to the changes that their body makes. You?re acting as if that never happened.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">At this point in Bosh's career I wouldnt hesitate to say he has MORE potential than Carmelo based not only on his skills but also his attitude, his work ethic and his height. He's young yet, only just turned 20 and big men develop a bit slower than gaurds and forwards, so dont give up on him yet. When i think of the future i see Bosh occupying the top 10 list in for a good chunk of his career.</div>
Are you serious??? Bosh has more potential than Carmelo Anthony who lead Syracuse to the NCAA championship as a freshman! The same one who really should have been rookie of the year imo, and who lead his team to the playoffs last season? I don?t know. I know big men take longer to develop but you are seriously overrating Bosh if you say he has more potential than Anthony. Even though they take longer to develop, 21/6.1/2.8 as a rookie is pretty impressive. If Bosh is on that list he will most likely be behind James, Wade, and Anthony and probably others that I didn?t mention. Why do you even say he has more potential than Anthony?



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh man, so many good 3's in the NBA its not even funny. I'll try naming a few, if i get some shooting guards dont blame me to much.
Peirce, Shard, C Mag, Jamison, Carter, Carmelo, Marion, Peja, Hill, Jefferson, AK47. Carter might be a gaurd, but he plays SF alot too. Anyways thats a few gaurds, and there's alot of up and coming SF's to like Iggy and Deng for example.
And i respect your opinion that he will be become a superstar. My suggestion though is not to put to much pressure on him. You sometimes talk like he's a lock to be one of the best players in the game, when there are numerous players that have as good of and a few better chances of becoming superstars as well.</div>
Good but, not really great. I consider Pierce a shooting guard although he is playing the 3 by the way. Well I think you do the same thing with Bosh. You sometimes talk like he is a lock to be one of the best players in the game, when there are numerous other players that have as good and a few better chances of becoming a superstar as well.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">no i personally dont think Dirk is a superstar yet. He's a great player with great skills but he's been on loaded teams for years not and hasnt won anything yet. But besides that he's not marketed has hard as the other guys i mentioned, which i think leaves him on the outside looking in for now. Though i think he's a terrific talent, top 10 in the league for sure...i wouldnt call him a superstar yet.</div>
Well I guess we all have our opinions of superstars. You can say Ariza wont be a superstar because he doesn?t fit into your standards but according to my standards, he will. Well, Dirk made it to the conference finals and got injured. Had he been playing it is quite possible they could have taken it farther than game 6.

 

[Beat]

Would you give up Ariza for Odom?

 

[Mr. J]

LOL, another good one Bobby!