Trip to Mars could leave crew 'dangerously weak'

[Denny Crane]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.2ce66fbf0dc554797b7d4cd3bfecee56.861&show_article=1

If a human ever sets foot on Mars, will it be a giant step or an exhausted shuffle?
Long-term space flight so weakens fitness that an astronaut heading to the Red Planet may lose up to half the power in key muscles in the course of the mission, scientists have found.

The loss -- equivalent to a crew member aged between 30 and 50 returning home with the muscles of an 80-year-old -- would add a major danger to a trip already laden with peril, they said.

Researchers led by Robert Fitts, a professor of biology at Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, took tiny samples of tissue from the calf muscles of nine US and Russian astronauts who spent around six months on the International Space Station (ISS).

The biopsies, taken 45 days before launch and on the day of return, showed dramatically how muscles atrophy in zero gravity.

The losses in fibre mass, force and power translated into a decline of more than 40 percent in the capacity for physical work, Fitts reported.

 

[Denny Crane]

Arthur C. Clarke invented the communications satellite, as well as writing some of the more realistic (feels realistic anyhow) Sci Fi. He has had this figured out for over 40 years:

This part of the ship spun to make artificial gravity:

And even his space stations had artificial gravity:

 

[jlprk]

I think the idea preceded Clarke. Heinlein wrote a novel of a giant cylindrical spaceship that rotated. With concentric circles inside being floors for the hundreds of crewmembers, the farther the floor was from the center, the more the centrifugal force pushed people into each floor.

 

[maxiep]

I have a really stupid question, but I'm not a natural scientist. Does centrifugal force exist in a zero gravity environment?

 

[Minstrel]

I have a really stupid question, but I'm not a natural scientist. Does centrifugal force exist in a zero gravity environment?

Yes, because it's not gravity that powers it. It's the body constantly being launched outward (in straight line inertia) by the spin. That motion then being arrested by the surface between the body and space (the floor of a shuttle/space station in this case) is what "feels" like gravity.

Edit: Just as a note, "centrifugal force" is only a "virtual force," not a true force. It's an illusion caused by the constant desire for the body to continue in a straight line, but constantly being arrested and thus kept in a circular path.

 

[maxiep]

Yes, because it's not gravity that powers it. It's the body constantly being launched outward (in straight line inertia) by the spin. That motion then being arrested by the surface between the body and space (the floor of a shuttle/space station in this case) is what "feels" like gravity.

Edit: Just as a note, "centrifugal force" is only a "virtual force," not a true force. It's an illusion caused by the constant desire for the body to continue in a straight line, but constantly being arrested and thus kept in a circular path.

Thanks for the explanation. It's appreciated. Repped.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Yes, because it's not gravity that powers it. It's the body constantly being launched outward (in straight line inertia) by the spin. That motion then being arrested by the surface between the body and space (the floor of a shuttle/space station in this case) is what "feels" like gravity.

Edit: Just as a note, "centrifugal force" is only a "virtual force," not a true force. It's an illusion caused by the constant desire for the body to continue in a straight line, but constantly being arrested and thus kept in a circular path.

Who says you learn nothing reading S2?

 

[maxiep]

Who says you learn nothing reading S2?

To be fair, the only people who say that are those that read my posts.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yes, because it's not gravity that powers it. It's the body constantly being launched outward (in straight line inertia) by the spin. That motion then being arrested by the surface between the body and space (the floor of a shuttle/space station in this case) is what "feels" like gravity.

Edit: Just as a note, "centrifugal force" is only a "virtual force," not a true force. It's an illusion caused by the constant desire for the body to continue in a straight line, but constantly being arrested and thus kept in a circular path.

The point is to simulate something close to earth gravity with that centrifugal force so the astronauts' muscles and bones have to work like they do on earth. The weightlessness is what kills the bone mass and muscle strength.

 

[Colonel Ronan]

So basically they're telling us it's not possible?

 

[barfo]

I don't see the big problem, myself. Yes, you can't lift weights in space (well, you can, but it doesn't build muscle), but spring-based exercises should work just as well as they do on earth.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

The point is to simulate something close to earth gravity with that centrifugal force so the astronauts' muscles and bones have to work like they do on earth. The weightlessness is what kills the bone mass and muscle strength.

Yes, that's why I said it feels like gravity.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't see the big problem, myself. Yes, you can't lift weights in space (well, you can, but it doesn't build muscle), but spring-based exercises should work just as well as they do on earth.

Equip each shuttle with a BowFlex?

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't see the big problem, myself. Yes, you can't lift weights in space (well, you can, but it doesn't build muscle), but spring-based exercises should work just as well as they do on earth.

barfo

The problem is they have to lift weights for several hours just to simulate the kind of natural "excercise" our muscles get from just keeping us balanced (standing upright) under gravity. Wouldn't we want astronauts to be doing interesting things like experiments and using their spare time for whatever leisure activities (aside from a mandatory several hour workout) they might concoct?

 

[barfo]

The problem is they have to lift weights for several hours just to simulate the kind of natural "excercise" our muscles get from just keeping us balanced (standing upright) under gravity. Wouldn't we want astronauts to be doing interesting things like experiments and using their spare time for whatever leisure activities (aside from a mandatory several hour workout) they might concoct?

Fuck no. They can sew together Nike shoes if they have spare time, then when the spaceship returns Phil Knight can lay off some Vietnamese.
I don't know how many experiments they can do between here and Mars, the space between the outer limit of our atmosphere and Mars isn't all that interesting, and the experiments that do need to be done out there can better be done by robots.

For that matter, manning the ship can better be done by robots, and they probably don't need as much exercise, and can sew shoes faster too.

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Fuck no. They can sew together Nike shoes if they have spare time, then when the spaceship returns Phil Knight can lay off some Vietnamese.
I don't know how many experiments they can do between here and Mars, the space between the outer limit of our atmosphere and Mars isn't all that interesting, and the experiments that do need to be done out there can better be done by robots.

For that matter, manning the ship can better be done by robots, and they probably don't need as much exercise, and can sew shoes faster too.

barfo

I'm sorry, Dave, you can't say that.

 

[BrianFromWA]

the problem is when they get there. The "space suits" we have right now are great for stopping cosmic and solar radiation, as well as staying pressurized, warm, and oxygenated. The problem is that they weight a ton. In space or on the moon it's not a horrible problem. On Mars it will be. And if the astronauts are weakened by 6 months of doing zilch, it's going to be that much harder.

Maybe the astronauts could shake-weight?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

the problem is when they get there. The "space suits" we have right now are great for stopping cosmic and solar radiation, as well as staying pressurized, warm, and oxygenated. The problem is that they weight a ton. In space or on the moon it's not a horrible problem. On Mars it will be. And if the astronauts are weakened by 6 months of doing zilch, it's going to be that much harder.

Maybe the astronauts could shake-weight?

Or germ free broads.

 

[jlprk]

Astronauts already exercise heavily at least a couple hours daily, on million-dollar machines like COLBERT. The OP article assumes such exercise, yet still predicts much bone loss on a long trip (as articles before it have, too).

To make centrifugal force feel vertical and not horizontal through the concentric floors, you need a ship bigger than ISS.

 

[rocketeer]

I don't see the big problem, myself. Yes, you can't lift weights in space (well, you can, but it doesn't build muscle), but spring-based exercises should work just as well as they do on earth.

barfo

obviously you aren't correct or else this wouldn't be considered a problem by anyone.

either that or the articles claims are incorrect.

 

[jlprk]

Yes, that was my point. By the way, here's an article about myths that oppose Obama's vision for space.

http://www.space.com/news/nasa-obama-space-plan-misunderstandings-100624.html

 

[barfo]

obviously you aren't correct or else this wouldn't be considered a problem by anyone.

either that or the articles claims are incorrect.

Or, the study was looking at muscle loss in the absence of exercise.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

"Even so, the findings clearly show the need to improve fitness regimes in space so that astronauts are exposed to high-resistance exercise and the kinds of motions they experience on Earth, he said."

Looks like "improving the already in place fitness regimes" is what this sentence from the article implies.

 

[jlprk]

They can't improve them enough. The best minds designing exercise plans, very expensive equipment, a lot of hard exercise time each day, highly motivated astronauts...every variable is already maximized.

This (and other giant problems) is why no one will go to Mars in our lifetimes.

 

[rocketeer]

Or, the study was looking at muscle loss in the absence of exercise.

barfo

which would make the article's claims incorrect.

either you are wrong or they are wrong. if i was to guess, i'd say it's you.

 

[jlprk]

This is real film, not animation...in fast motion.



(Turn on your sound.)

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

This is real film, not animation...in fast motion.



(Turn on your sound.)

Looks like ABM doing the 'robot'.

 

[ABM]

Looks like ABM doing the 'robot'.

I should have never hired you as a coach.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I should have never hired you as a coach.

Or paid me as well.

 

[jlprk]

This headline is apt for this board.

http://www.colonyworlds.com/2010/08...avity-turns-martian-astronauts-into-girly-men