TRob and Barton

[HailBlazers]

People's Champ 4 ever.

Nobody thrills like Will off the bench.

 

[Schilly]

Every team has 3-4 guys who don't play much... And if you are relying on those 4 guys for success then you are in a world of hurt anyway. At least Trob and Will show flashes of being able to do things.

 

[e_blazer]

Every team has 3-4 guys who don't play much... And if you are relying on those 4 guys for success then you are in a world of hurt anyway. At least Trob and Will show flashes of being able to do things.

This.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here's how I see it: we have now become a "system" team. The apotheosis of this is San Antonio - that's why they can rest all their good players and still win games, because they work as a unit that is greater than its parts. (Jackson's triangle teams were, of course, like this.) This is a great thing - system teams are the only kind that stand a chance against anybody, even Superteams like the LeBron Heat. But it also means that certain talents become more valuable and certain talents less. Danny Green can bounce around and find a home with the Spurs. And Allen Crabbe can jump ahead of players that looked much better than him in other settings.

Here is what you need to succeed for Terry Stotts:
you have to be unselfish
you have to have a good court sense (know where everybody else is)
you have to have a certain skill in passing
you mustn't overdribble
you must play defense
you must be able to shoot

Victor is an odd case because the only way he falls short is the last one. You'd think he'd at least get a sniff of the court. He's basically Rolo only too small to get away with it. Will and TRob are just incapable of playing within a system.

 

[Schilly]

I think adding Kyle Singled as a FA this summer would really fit Stotts' system.

 

[Sinobas]

T-Rob has done some good things for us, but Wright and Barton have rarely contributed anything positive.

You could just see what disarray the 2nd unit was in last night. Such a stark contrast to the 1st unit. Stotts has the starters playing with the precision of the Spurs and the Jerry Sloan Jazz teams. Then the bench comes in and it's a mess.

I think it comes down to the fact that Barton and T-Rob just want to go one on one and make wild lays, and wright just sucks. I can see why Stotts has been pulling for Leonard.

 

[Scalma]

We should just play claver over Barton. Neither one can shoot but at least claver does everything else fairly decent

 

[magnifier661]

T-Rob has done some good things for us, but Wright and Barton have rarely contributed anything positive.

You could just see what disarray the 2nd unit was in last night. Such a stark contrast to the 1st unit. Stotts has the starters playing with the precision of the Spurs and the Jerry Sloan Jazz teams. Then the bench comes in and it's a mess.

I think it comes down to the fact that Barton and T-Rob just want to go one on one and make wild lays, and wright just sucks. I can see why Stotts has been pulling for Leonard.

You saw the third unit last night. That was last year's second unit. Our current second unit is way better

 

[Sinobas]

You saw the third unit last night. That was last year's second unit. Our current second unit is way better

Blake, and Kaman were out there. The dif is that our backups are usually not all on the floor at the same time.

 

[magnifier661]

Blake, and Kaman were out there. The dif is that our backups are usually not all on the floor at the same time.

Yes but this was against the best defensive team in the league. Also, CJ has been way more important to our success than we know. He has some pretty efficient numbers this season and is able to create his own shot. Batum was also coming back from injury and taking it easy. We should always have 1 starter in the game at all times, IMO.

 

[Blazer4ever]

I don't buy that "TRob and Barton can't play within a system", you have to get enough chance, if they are able to play more than garbage time (or garbage time+ in Barton's case) they'd get in rhythm.
I understand that many players are doing good job in their positions, I don't think any of our regular bigs should be benched but I think the rotations should become even more loose. TRob can do great things if you put him in there and it doesn't have to be at the bottom of the 1st-top of 2nd traditional bench assignment, it could simply be when we're a bit flat or in any other case Stotts thinks he could help, which could happen at any point in the game.
The same goes to Barton and to our rotations in general, a guy like Claver is another players who's wasted in a suit when he could help us situationally. This is about Stotts trusting his instincts and gut feeling instead of being stuck in this conception of traditional 1st unit/2nd unit. I think he already made big strides toward this thinking which is one of the reasons we were able to become a "system team" like Rasta called it and I think he should continue this process until every active player knows there's at least a chance he is called to play at every point during the game.

 

[Blazer4ever]

You may think Stotts is not up to it, that it's not his style, but like I said about Will and TRob: give him some time and he'll get in rhythm.

 

[magnifier661]

I don't buy that "TRob and Barton can't play within a system", you have to get enough chance, if they are able to play more than garbage time (or garbage time+ in Barton's case) they'd get in rhythm.
I understand that many players are doing good job in their positions, I don't think any of our regular bigs should be benched but I think the rotations should become even more loose. TRob can do great things if you put him in there and it doesn't have to be at the bottom of the 1st-top of 2nd traditional bench assignment, it could simply be when we're a bit flat or in any other case Stotts thinks he could help, which could happen at any point in the game.
The same goes to Barton and to our rotations in general, a guy like Claver is another players who's wasted in a suit when he could help us situationally. This is about Stotts trusting his instincts and gut feeling instead of being stuck in this conception of traditional 1st unit/2nd unit. I think he already made big strides toward this thinking which is one of the reasons we were able to become a "system team" like Rasta called it and I think he should continue this process until every active player knows there's at least a chance he is called to play at every point during the game.

This could apply to T. Rob because he's a garbage type player, but Barton has the ball when he's on the court. T rob doesn't need the ball in his hands to impact the game.

 

[Natebishop3]

You may think Stotts is not up to it, that it's not his style, but like I said about Will and TRob: give him some time and he'll get in rhythm.

I don't think so. Will is a total ratball player. I'm not sure he can play within a system. He thrives in chaos.

I was in favor of playing both guys against the Spurs last year because our bench was SO bad and we couldn't out-system the Spurs, so the best thing we could do was chaos.

 

[Blazer4ever]

They're both good defenders, effective offensive players, neither is selfish, they don't interrupt the flow of the offense, they bring energy, they're able to make plays when we're stuck, I didn't measure their IQ but they surely play smarter than someone like Leonard and are comparable to most of our players of comparable age, experience.
Last year when they were given a chance and were able to build confidence they progressed to being our first bench players and were seen as having very bright future by most of us. I think those reasons to why they're not playing are excuses, they should be playing.

 

[magnifier661]

They're both good defenders, effective offensive players, neither is selfish, they don't interrupt the flow of the offense, they bring energy, they're able to make plays when we're stuck, I didn't measure their IQ but they surely play smarter than someone like Leonard and are comparable to most of our players of comparable age, experience.
Last year when they were given a chance and were able to build confidence they progressed to being our first bench players and were seen as having very bright future by most of us. I think those reasons to why they're not playing are excuses, they should be playing.

That part of your statement completely destroyed everything else. Sorry, they do interrupt the flow of the offense.

 

[Blazer4ever]

Then they should be coached not to.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Here's how I see it: we have now become a "system" team. The apotheosis of this is San Antonio - that's why they can rest all their good players and still win games, because they work as a unit that is greater than its parts. (Jackson's triangle teams were, of course, like this.) This is a great thing - system teams are the only kind that stand a chance against anybody, even Superteams like the LeBron Heat. But it also means that certain talents become more valuable and certain talents less. Danny Green can bounce around and find a home with the Spurs. And Allen Crabbe can jump ahead of players that looked much better than him in other settings.

Here is what you need to succeed for Terry Stotts:
you have to be unselfish
you have to have a good court sense (know where everybody else is)
you have to have a certain skill in passing
you mustn't overdribble
you must play defense
you must be able to shoot

Victor is an odd case because the only way he falls short is the last one. You'd think he'd at least get a sniff of the court. He's basically Rolo only too small to get away with it. Will and TRob are just incapable of playing within a system.

Clavers problem isn't just shooting it's he doesn't have a true position.

 

[magnifier661]

Then they should be coached not to.

I think they have been coached not to. Could be the main reason why they get no burn. They might not be listening...

Pay attention to all the other players. They've all bought into the system and play with the flow of offense. Then watch when t.rob and Barton come in. You will notice they are the ones usually lost.

 

[Blazinaway]

I think they have been coached not to. Could be the main reason why they get no burn. They might not be listening...

Pay attention to all the other players. They've all bought into the system and play with the flow of offense. Then watch when t.rob and Barton come in. You will notice they are the ones usually lost.

agree, and even Meyers looks like a much better fit in the "flow' then either Barton or Trob

 

[magnifier661]

agree, and even Meyers looks like a much better fit in the "flow' then either Barton or Trob

Yes Meyers is playing within the system and is making a huge effort. I'm impressed!

The thing about Barton that really bothers me is I know he knows what the coach wants, yet he doesn't work on that part of his game. Same with T. Rob. It is so frustrating to watch at times.

I give T. Rob more of a pass because you can have that "junk yard dog" type player. One that really doesn't need the ball to be effective in the game.

 

[riverman]

Get them out of Portland! They're not white enough!

Isn't it about time to throw away the race card in pro sports? You realize it starts with us? Bill Laimbeer and Larry Bird played in the east. It's about fitting into a system, not being color coordinated

 

[magnifier661]

Isn't it about time to throw away the race card in pro sports? You realize it starts with us? Bill Laimbeer and Larry Bird played in the east. It's about fitting into a system, not being color coordinated

Well that and how we love Kaman and Blake. You don't get much whiter than that

 

[Hobbesarable]

Well that and how we love Kaman and Blake. You don't get much whiter than that

I could be wrong, but I read Blazer4ever's post as a sarcastic comment.

 

[Strenuus]

I could be wrong, but I read Blazer4ever's post as a sarcastic comment.

I read it the same way.

 

[riverman]

I read it the same way.

[/B]
I'm sure he was but all the same, if you grew up like I did in the 50's it just isn't funny. The sooner that shit goes away, the better. My 2 cents is, it just shouldn't be there anymore in 2014. Call me a prude. it's ok

 

[Boob-No-More]

How did MyLe escape this list?

Oh, I don't know, maybe this:

Meyers Leonard: PER = 16.8
Dorell Wright: PER = 9.4
Thomas Robinson: PER = 7.3
Will Barton: PER = 1.0

One of these things is not like the others.

Or, maybe this:

Meyers Leonard: TS% = .630
Dorell Wright: TS% = .356
Thomas Robinson: TS% = .412
Will Barton: PER = .345

Or, maybe this:

Meyers Leonard: WS/48 = .226
Dorell Wright: WS/48 = .088
Thomas Robinson: WS/48 = .028
Will Barton: PER = WS/48 = -.090

Or, maybe this:

Meyers Leonard: TOV% = 5.9
Dorell Wright: TOV% = 0.0
Thomas Robinson: TOV% = 20.5
Will Barton: PER = TOV% = 18.1

Or, quite possibly this:

Meyers Leonard: VORP = 0.4
Dorell Wright: VORP = 0.2
Thomas Robinson: VORP = -0.7
Will Barton: VORP = -0.7

Yeah, the sample size is small for all four players, but of the 4, Leonard is the only one to make consistent positive contributions in his limited playing time. He's the only one that consistently knocks down his shots. Barton and Robinson are turnover machines. For every 2 good things they do they do 3 stupid things that hurt the team.

Leonard has shown excellent progress. Although his shooting suffered last year, his rebounding improved substantially last year and has further improved this year. Well, now he has his shot back (it was a matter of confidence) and is much more of a scoring threat than the other 3. He does two things very well that are important in Stotts' system: he shoots the ball well and doesn't make stupid turnovers.

Some people in this forum still seem to be pissed that Leonard isn't what THEY wanted him to be and are bound and determined to bash the guy any chance they get. No, he's not a low post back up center, but now that we have Kaman, we don't need him to be. Leonard is what he is, and turns out what he is is a back up stretch 4, and he's actually pretty productive in that role. Barton, Robinson and Wright have all been woefully unproductive in their roles, and I suspect that's why the OP didn't include Leonard on his original list.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

Oh, I don't know, maybe this:

Meyers Leonard: PER = 16.8
Dorell Wright: PER = 9.4
Thomas Robinson: PER = 7.3
Will Barton: PER = 1.0

One of these things is not like the others.

Or, maybe this:

Meyers Leonard: TS% = .630
Dorell Wright: TS% = .356
Thomas Robinson: TS% = .412
Will Barton: PER = .345

Or, maybe this:

Meyers Leonard: WS/48 = .226
Dorell Wright: WS/48 = .088
Thomas Robinson: WS/48 = .028
Will Barton: PER = WS/48 = -.090

Or, maybe this:

Meyers Leonard: TOV% = 5.9
Dorell Wright: TOV% = 0.0
Thomas Robinson: TOV% = 20.5
Will Barton: PER = TOV% = 18.1

Or, quite possibly this:

Meyers Leonard: VORP = 0.4
Dorell Wright: VORP = 0.2
Thomas Robinson: VORP = -0.7
Will Barton: VORP = -0.7

Yeah, the sample size is small for all four players, but of the 4, Leonard is the only one to make consistent positive contributions in his limited playing time. He's the only one that consistently knocks down his shots. Barton and Robinson are turnover machines. For every 2 good things they do they do 3 stupid things that hurt the team.

Leonard has shown excellent progress. Although his shooting suffered last year, his rebounding improved substantially last year and has further improved this year. Well, now he has his shot back (it was a matter of confidence) and is much more of a scoring threat than the other 3. He does two things very well that are important in Stotts' system: he shoots the ball well and doesn't make stupid turnovers.

Some people in this forum still seem to be pissed that Leonard isn't what THEY wanted him to be and are bound and determined to bash the guy any chance they get. No, he's not a low post back up center, but now that we have Kaman, we don't need him to be. Leonard is what he is, and turns out what he is is a back up stretch 4, and he's actually pretty productive in that role. Barton, Robinson and Wright have all been woefully unproductive in their roles, and I suspect that's why the OP didn't include Leonard on his original list.

BNM

Hear! Hear!

All I wanted was effort and Leonard has brought it this season. I'm pleased

 

[Boob-No-More]

Hear! Hear!

All I wanted was effort and Leonard has brought it this season. I'm pleased

He also seems to understand what the coaches want from him and has worked to improve in those areas. I think some posters forget that he's still only 22 and the second youngest player on the team (about 5 weeks older than Crabbe). Barton is two years older, TRob is about a year and a half older and Wright is almost old enough to be his father. TRob and Barton still don't seem to get it and at this point, I wonder if they ever will.

BNM