TRob vs Claver

[Natebishop3]

I was reading through the posts about Claver and our bench. I think we have a couple positions that are log jammed right now. Guard is especially bad with CJ, Will, Crabbe, and Mo, but I wanted to talk about the backup four spot.

We have Robinson and we have Vic.

Realistically, I think stretch four is probably Claver's best position and I don't see Robinson playing small forward or center. So this creates a dilemma because we only have so many minutes to go around.

Who would you rather give the minutes to?

At first thought, I was leaning towards Robinson because I think he has a much higher ceiling. TRob has the potential to be really good. It's hard to say if he'll ever live up to the hype that he had coming into the draft, but I think he could easily be a starter in the league.

Claver on the other hand is the quintessential role player. He has a high BBIQ, he plays hard on both ends of the floor, and he understands his role on the team. He's exactly the kind of player that a San Antonio or Utah back in the 90's would have used to help get them deep in the playoffs.

So while one player has the much higher ceiling, I am concerned because I don't see how Robinson is ever going to fully realize his potential in Portland. Unless LA leaves, the power forward spot is on lockdown, and it's pretty obvious that Rolo is the present and future at center. So what happens to Robinson long term? He has two years until he's a RFA. I think he'll only continue to get better, and it will be more difficult to keep him happy on the bench. LA is young enough that it's hard to say that Robinson will be the long term replacement for LA.

Vic on the other hand is only 25, so it's not like he's old. He could easily be a longterm answer as a backup four with some spot minutes at small forward.

Obviously nothing has to be done immediately. We can easily hang onto Robinson right up until the end of his contract, but I would like to see us start to pick and choose some of these young guys and focus on development. Robinson has a high ceiling, and he could bring a nice payout from an extremely low investment. I think we'll see LA sign a max extension in the very near future, so that locks up the power forward position for the foreseeable future. I would like to see this kid succeed, but I don't think it will ultimately be in Portland.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

I think Robinson has higher potential as well and could be a legitimate starter in the future - perhaps not a star but a solid player. That being said, he may also be one of our stronger bargaining pieces in the off-season. He could be a buy-low, sell-high guy.

I'm not advocating trading him, but if the right deal comes along, he could be the cherry on the top to seal the deal.

Gramps...

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Robinson has higher potential as well and could be a legitimate starter in the future - perhaps not a star but a solid player. That being said, he may also be one of our stronger bargaining pieces in the off-season. He could be a buy-low, sell-high guy.

I'm not advocating trading him, but if the right deal comes along, he could be the cherry on the top to seal the deal.

Gramps...

That's really how I'm looking at it. I like Robinson. He's so athletic and he's always going. Very high motor. I'm just seeing down the road and I don't know that he has much of a long term future here. I really think we need to start focusing on playing some young guys, because we have too many to keep happy. I don't think Crabbe is going to stick here. I have my doubts about Leonard. I really like what Will does and I still have high hopes for CJ.

So do we just keep developing Robinson as an insurance policy in case something happens to LA?

 

[Blazinaway]

I think Robinson has higher potential as well and could be a legitimate starter in the future - perhaps not a star but a solid player. That being said, he may also be one of our stronger bargaining pieces in the off-season. He could be a buy-low, sell-high guy.

I'm not advocating trading him, but if the right deal comes along, he could be the cherry on the top to seal the deal.

Gramps...

most "stretch 4's" can shoot the 3 ball well or at least have a good/solid/reliable outside shot which Vic has so far not shown in "real" games, I am a big Vic fan as he is so solid in all other areas, the reason Dorrell Wright has been getting a lot of backup PF/stretch 4 minutes is that he can shoot better than Trob or Claver from outside and even he has not been all that good or consistent at it. Trob is not a stretch 4 which is okay.

if TRob can work on and become consistent at the 15-18 ft jumper he will solidify himself, he has good form (so does Claver lol), just has to really put in the time this offseason

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Claver and Freeland are both players that could take what they've learned in the NBA and go back to the Europe for a nice payday. Freeland especially would be one of the most dominate players over there at his position.

 

[maxiep]

I would actually like to see Claver go the other way: work on his footspeed, his agility and play a big three, rather than a strech four. He has terrific court vision and is an excellent passer. With some ballhandling development, he could become somewhat of a point forward as a backup, allowing McCollum and Barton to play together.

He will never be the quickest SF, and he may get smoked by smaller, quicker SFs, but he could pound them on the other end, and he will always keep them chasing him.

 

[maxiep]

My second five for next year (I think Mo is gone)

PG - McCollum
SG - Barton
SF - Claver
PF - Robinson
C - Freeland

Leonard looks at least another year away from being able to give consistent minutes, but I love his potential.

 

[Natebishop3]

My second five for next year (I think Mo is gone)

PG - McCollum
SG - Barton
SF - Claver
PF - Robinson
C - Freeland

Leonard looks at least another year away from being able to give consistent minutes, but I love his potential.

What about Wright? I also don't think CJ is a point guard. I think we need a backup point guard to play with Dame and CJ ain't it.

 

[Eastoff]

Teams can only have one max extension, and a lot of people here said Damian will get that. I don't know or care too much. I have a feeling Thomas Robinson could net a very nice piece for a trade, but he's already a cheap nice piece. I think we will ride Robinson until his rookie contract expires, and we'll trade him. I think Claver is the odd man out, but also a valuable piece to trade as he has shown talent. I believe Pop could easily make him the next Ginoboli.

 

[Eastoff]

What about Wright? I also don't think CJ is a point guard. I think we need a backup point guard to play with Dame and CJ ain't it.

I don't see how Wright stays with us next year.

 

[Natebishop3]

Teams can only have one max extension, and a lot of people here said Damian will get that. I don't know or care too much. I have a feeling Thomas Robinson could net a very nice piece for a trade, but he's already a cheap nice piece. I think we will ride Robinson until his rookie contract expires, and we'll trade him. I think Claver is the odd man out, but also a valuable piece to trade as he has shown talent. I believe Pop could easily make him the next Ginoboli.

He's definitely not a Manu, but he could very easily be a Shane Battier type of guy. Someone who plays defense, passes, and can hit a shot from time to time.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't see how Wright stays with us next year.

He's under contract, I believe.

 

[Eastoff]

My second five for next year (I think Mo is gone)

PG - McCollum
SG - Barton
SF - Claver
PF - Robinson
C - Freeland

Leonard looks at least another year away from being able to give consistent minutes, but I love his potential.

The only way I see Claver exploiting opponents on the offense is if he does a lot of back to basket work, which seems like a clog for TRob and Freeland in at the same time.

 

[Eastoff]

He's under contract, I believe.

sure, but I think he'll get moved.

 

[Natebishop3]

sure, but I think he'll get moved.

It's possible. I think we'll make at least one big move this summer.

 

[RR7]

I want to keep both, but there is an obvious minutes issue. It's choosing whether to go for limited but solid contribution or potential upside. I think clave r's shifts on the court will generally offer a lower ceiling bit a higher floor. And Robinson will offer a higher ceiling but lower floor.

 

[maxiep]

What about Wright? I also don't think CJ is a point guard. I think we need a backup point guard to play with Dame and CJ ain't it.

My point is that Claver can play point forward. CJ can bring the ball up, but Claver can run the offense.

 

[Kaydow]

If Claver could shoot, it's a no brainer. His court awareness, passing ability, defensive versatility will bode well for him somewhere, if not in PDX. His shot mechanics and release look good so it's logical to believe he can improve. If he can shoot 45% FG, & at least 36% on 3s, he can make a huge impact with all of his other abilities. He needs to work on that this summer. It's the only thing holding him back.

TRob is always going to struggle with court awareness IMO. His athleticism and energy make him intriguing. But too many times I've seen him make an amazing play & follow it up with a mental lapse. He'll make a highlight real block & then stand and watch as someone grabs it & lays it in. He has so many blocked shots where our opponent keeps possession. Sending a shot into the stands looks good, but who cares if you don't get that possession? TRob has a lot of SC worthy highlights, but he doesn't do the little things (set hard screens, box out, take a charge, etc). All year you expected him to show signs of improvement in those areas, but it never happened. Don't think it will with him. Nice kid, good teammate, but not a real smart BB player. Love for him to prove me wrong.

 

[lawai'a]

My point is that Claver can play point forward. CJ can bring the ball up, but Claver can run the offense.

I think willbthrilled is potentially your point fwd/point guard. his confidence and skillset seem to be forming him in that mold.

 

[riverman]

To me you keep both these guys and bring Claver in behind Nico as a backup 3-4. I've been clamouring for Victor to get playing time all season. He's maybe the best defender and passer on the team at his position. He can bang in the post. According to Wes, he's a better shooter than folks think. His game is way more developed than TRobs but TRob is the future.

 

[blue9]

Robinson is definitely a keeper. I'm really hoping that he has a "coming-out" party against the Rockets, and then builds on it all next season so that he makes LMA expendable. Having a hustle guy who actually plays the PF position like it's suppose to be played would be terrific. But what's even more important is that he won't be taking up $18M of cap space like LMA will.

I like Claver - he's a very intelligent player. He could be a very good back-up role player on a contender. He's kinda like the back-up version of Nic. But if the choice is between Robinson and Claver, it's an easy one: Robinson.

 

[blue9]

To me you keep both these guys and bring Claver in behind Nico as a backup 3-4. I've been clamouring for Victor to get playing time all season. He's maybe the best defender and passer on the team at his position. He can bang in the post. According to Wes, he's a better shooter than folks think. His game is way more developed than TRobs but TRob is the future.

I'm MUCH rather see Claver backing up Nic, than Wright backing up Nic. Bingo! Dilemma solved!

 

[Prue]

I also don't see the downside to having a 3-man rotation for this (situational one way or the other depending on who we are playing). LA comes out and if we need Muscle and Rebounding we go T-Rob. If we need spacing and assists, we go Victor. I think Vic is better at a 3 if he can find just 1 more speed-gear...then you could have both out there with Joel in the C and really make it easy on the 1 and 2. If we wanna run BIG on a 2nd unit we could...Joel at C, Trob the 4, Meyers the 3 and Vic the 2 (he _can_ shoot) then Will or CJ at point (working to get their own shot). I that sort of setup Vic becomes a SCREEN MACHINE and has to POP every time, no roll or you clutter the middle too much. But with that play at the top of the key, Vic screens for Will and then pops out you can have Meyers/Trob and Joel boxing out their man allowing free access to the rim or a nice dish to either one of those three cutting. You'd have to keep Meyers at the 3 and about 12-15 feet out...which is in his range. (NOTE: I dont think this works for 2 years though, since Meyers needs that long to come along imho.)

 

[illmatic99]

Ya I don't think the question should be TRob vs Claver -- more so DWright vs Claver.

Robinson gives us something we don't really get from the other two.

 

[Natebishop3]

Ya I don't think the question should be TRob vs Claver -- more so DWright vs Claver.

Robinson gives us something we don't really get from the other two.

Is Claver quick enough to play small forward though?

 

[illmatic99]

If we're looking at guys like Casspi or Garcia? without a doubt Vic can guard em. But that's beside the point. I'd like him to play the role of a stretch 4.

A mini Boris Diaw if you will.

 

[BigGameDamian]

If Claver went to San Antonio he would be a 6th man type player.

 

[lawai'a]

claver looked pretty good in Stott's small ball sets against certain match ups at the "5" too

 

[B-Roy]

Claver is easily a max MLE player if he could just develop a jumpshot.

 

[Blazer4ever]

Claver is a great player, he should get minutes, not Robinson's minutes though, Robinson is also great.