OT ...Trump...beginning of the end?

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...the thing that still disturbs me about Obama care is why even Republicans say that they cannot completely repeal it or gut it first and start over, and exactly why, I don't know...they say it will be too chaotic, and again, I don't know why Most of us were no worse off before Obama care so why can't they just revert back to how things were before OC, and then gradually add/implement things and address the things that need the most improvement within the health care system as well as pharmaceuticals?

...insurance for me and my wife has almost doubled in the last few years and so have the deductibles...and TrumpCare does not appear to fix that at all.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...the thing that still disturbs me about Obama care is why even Republicans say that they cannot completely repeal it or gut it first and start over, and exactly why, I don't know...they say it will be too chaotic, and again, I don't know why Most of us were no worse off before Obama care so why can't they just revert back to how things were before OC, and then gradually add/implement things and address the things that need the most improvement within the health care system as well as pharmaceuticals?

...insurance for me and my wife has almost doubled in the last few years and so have the deductibles...and TrumpCare does not appear to fix that at all.
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^^^^.... ditto, Kim and I are in the same boat. Out of pocket expenses, insane deductibles as much as 4X more than ever before....

being in a senior citizen category, and retired, our age group is one where approx 18% of the nation gets screwed more than any other group, with costs one cannot so readily pay....yet out here they expect their payments up front, of all but the nanny races....

one thing I loved about Georgia, they knew the laws, and gave compassionate care always; in lieu of selective shit for care....the elderly are victims in this debacle called the un-affordable health care act. I was told our health insurance retirement package would not change with the un-affordable health care act, and it did....for the worse...! Don't get me wrong, I wan't to see national health care succeed, just not the way it's been going, which is a major downgrade to us; great for those who never had insurance....

The expense of having a decent PPO has gone thru the roof, yet is necessary to cut out slow referrals to specialists.

the cost of having any HMO's isn't worth the paper its written on, as one's life is at stake always (out here at least, where the systems are broken by an over burdened nanny state)...the end price is one's life...
 
totus44 said:
oh make no mistake about it, china can be manipulated. the last thing they want is the US rebuilding its manufacturing power or our infrastructure. what Trump knows is exactly what US business people know, chinese are eager to please, have an inferiority complex and have skin as thin as his own.

I'll be in Shanghai in a month and can give you the perspective on Trump and the US from our multibillion dollar business partner.
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I look forward to this...^^^^
 
Mattingly23NY said:
Putin knew of the bombings in advance....

http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/official-russia-knew-in-advance-of-syrian-chemical-attack?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Air Force DNR 04-10-17&utm_term=Editorial - Air Force - Daily News Roundup
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that makes sense. no point in taking out russian military advisers and further enflaming the situation. same thing happened post-Gulf War 1, our planes were being fired upon on the southern no fly zone by newly installed chinese SAM sites. when we finally got permission to return fire, the jammer planes also broadcast messages in chinese in the open air telling their personnel to sites were to be destroyed by such and such time.
 
As I understand it, the way the ACA restructured insurance company regulations it was designed to cause havoc if the plugged got pulled. Dems were smart, they knew the only way the plug got pulled was either by them because they were completely nationalizing healthcare as a single payer entitlement or by the GOP which would not do socialized medicine.

They will need to coordinate new regs for insurance companies and give them time to draft new policies and coverages based on those regs. Enact those regs and then remove the mandate and other hideous aspects of ACA. This is why I've been saying you either pull the plug and let the fall out happen but enact a cobra-like safety net for all of you that will be adversely impacted. Or they are going to have to divide the process up into little managable chunks and roll it out over a couple of months anyway.

I they can telegraph what the final plan would look like and give people time to prepare, I think we could just pull the plug and deal with the pain in one go. What that means is that millions of people like yourself would have to shop for new plans, hoping that the new plans that emerge are cost effective and reasonable. It probably means you grab one to keep yourself covered and then shop around, you could end up having a different plan every year until you find a comfort zone. Also means insurers will learn from people shopping with their feet as to what is and what is not acceptable. Something tells me prices are going vary alot until we can get at the underlying root causes for health care cost. Regional monopoly elimination, tort reform, out of control med school education costs, reform govt regulations on pharma (including FDA)....these are the small chunks I'm talking about. Punish the price gouging idiots like the idiot and the epipen scandal, but lost in all that is the fact that it can take up to 2B to get a drug approved from start to finish. 20 years ago it was only 200M.

This is why I like and Pauls plan...its simple, easy to understand (and sell), and puts the power back in that hands of the patient. Ted Cruz plan was similar as well, but I think Rand's is more polished.
 
totus44 said:
As I understand it, the way the ACA restructured insurance company regulations it was designed to cause havoc if the plugged got pulled. Dems were smart, they knew the only way the plug got pulled was either by them because they were completely nationalizing healthcare as a single payer entitlement or by the GOP which would not do socialized medicine.

They will need to coordinate new regs for insurance companies and give them time to draft new policies and coverages based on those regs. Enact those regs and then remove the mandate and other hideous aspects of ACA. This is why I've been saying you either pull the plug and let the fall out happen but enact a cobra-like safety net for all of you that will be adversely impacted. Or they are going to have to divide the process up into little managable chunks and roll it out over a couple of months anyway.

I they can telegraph what the final plan would look like and give people time to prepare, I think we could just pull the plug and deal with the pain in one go. What that means is that millions of people like yourself would have to shop for new plans, hoping that the new plans that emerge are cost effective and reasonable. It probably means you grab one to keep yourself covered and then shop around, you could end up having a different plan every year until you find a comfort zone. Also means insurers will learn from people shopping with their feet as to what is and what is not acceptable. Something tells me prices are going vary alot until we can get at the underlying root causes for health care cost. Regional monopoly elimination, tort reform, out of control med school education costs, reform govt regulations on pharma (including FDA)....these are the small chunks I'm talking about. Punish the price gouging idiots like the idiot and the epipen scandal, but lost in all that is the fact that it can take up to 2B to get a drug approved from start to finish. 20 years ago it was only 200M.

This is why I like and Pauls plan...its simple, easy to understand (and sell), and puts the power back in that hands of the patient. Ted Cruz plan was similar as well, but I think Rand's is more polished.
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...that's not at all what Trump promised.
 
totus44 said:
that makes sense. no point in taking out russian military advisers and further enflaming the situation. same thing happened post-Gulf War 1, our planes were being fired upon on the southern no fly zone by newly installed chinese SAM sites. when we finally got permission to return fire, the jammer planes also broadcast messages in chinese in the open air telling their personnel to sites were to be destroyed by such and such time.
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...the fact that Putin was given a half hour's notice to get his folks out before the cruise missiles hit the airport isn't exactly news and was reported immediately after the US reported the action they had taken.

... Matt's post/link was about was the fact that Russia not only knew about Syria's chemical weapons bombings and subsequent bombing of the hospital but the Russians were also.complicit. This technically makes Putin guilty of war crimes. As I said earlier, the US and other countries should sanction the shit out of Russia...fuck 'em.
...but they're our "friend", right?
 
yankeesince59 said:
...the fact that Putin was given a half hour's notice to get his folks out before the cruise missiles hit the airport isn't exactly news and was reported immediately after the US reported the action they had taken.

... Matt's post/link was about was the fact that Russia not only knew about Syria's chemical weapons bombings and subsequent bombing of the hospital but the Russians were also.complicit. This technically makes Putin guilty of war crimes. As I said earlier, the US and other countries should sanction the shit out of Russia...fuck 'em.
...but they're our "friend", right?
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exactly my point, Putin's as guilty as Assad....

but hey there are our comrades, friends as far as Sun Tzu's "keep your friends close, your enemies closer". It gives me a warm fuzzy to know West Point, Bethesda, and Colo Springs uses Sun Tzu's The Art of War as a mandatory text for officer's-

  • If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
  • The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.
  • All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
  • There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
  • The greatest victory is that which requires no battle.
  • All warfare is based on deception.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...l-shipments-opts-for-us-supplies-instead.html

I'd love to see the transcripts of Trumps meeting with the Chinese last week....

something is going on behind the scenes, or it appears to be, even tho' one can't trust the chinese by their words, only by their actions, and this is a good start....imo, China's not going to screw themselves over this dirt bag in Pyongpang....let's finish it, get it over with....watch the sewer rats scurry. People who've been so utterly brainwashed they never will know truth, or peace....
 
http://www.militarytimes.com/articl...rm=Editorial - Air Force - Daily News Roundup


Tillerson in Moscow: Pushing on Syria where Obama failed
By: Josh Lederman, The Associated Press, April 11, 2017 (Photo Credit: Ivan Sekretarev/AP)
MOSCOW — The Trump administration veered toward deeper conflict with Russia Tuesday as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson arrived in Moscow, gambling that an unpredictable new president armed with the willingness to threaten military action gives the U.S. much-needed leverage to end Syria's carnage.
Yet there were no guarantees Tillerson's arguments would prove any more successful than the Obama administration's failed effort to peel Russia away from its Syrian ally. Tillerson's mission, coming days after 59 Tomahawk missiles struck a Syrian air base, also carries serious risks: If Russia brushes off the warnings, President Donald Trump could be forced into another show of force in Syria or see his credibility wane.


"I hope that what the Russian government concludes is that they have aligned themselves with an unreliable partner in Bashar al-Assad," Tillerson said before flying to the Russian capital, referring to Syria's embattled leader.

"The reign of the Assad family is coming to an end," he confidently predicted.


But Tillerson's claim is one President Barack Obama, too, argued for years, only to see Assad outlast his own term in office. And the Trump administration's nascent Syria policy seems to be increasingly centering on the same tactic Obama unsuccessfully employed: persuading Russia, Assad's staunchest ally, to abandon him.


The parallels haven't gone unnoticed by Russian President Vladimir Putin as U.S. officials have accused his military of knowing about Assad's recent chemical weapons attack ahead of time and trying to help cover it up. Calling for a U.N. investigation, Putin held to his claim that it was actually Assad opponents who introduced chemical weapons into Syria's harrowing civil war.

"We have seen it all already," Putin said. Jabbing at U.S. credibility, the Russian leader reminded reporters about unfounded U.S. claims of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, used to justify America's 2003 invasion.


The escalating dispute over last week's events in the Syrian town of Khan Sheikhoun has thrust Washington and Moscow into a level of tension rarely seen since the end of the Cold War. The animosity is especially striking given widespread speculation that Trump, who lavishly praised Putin during his campaign, would pursue rapprochement with Moscow.

Even on Syria, the positions appeared to be hardening. Only a week ago, top Trump officials had spoken off deprioritizing past U.S. efforts to remove Assad from office and accepting the "reality" that 18 months of Russian military intervention had secured him in power. Since last Thursday's cruise missile strike, Tillerson and other U.S. officials appear to have reverted to the past administration's rhetoric of insisting that Assad is on the way out, without outlining any strategy for making that happen.


The Trump administration's change of heart, apparently spurred in part by the president's emotional response to the images of chemical weapons victims, also is serving another purpose: defanging the perception of coziness between Trump and Moscow. As the FBI and multiple congressional committees investigate potential collusion between Russia and Trump's campaign, the president can point to his hard-line stance on Assad as fresh evidence he's willing to stand up to Putin.

U.S. and Russian national flags wave on the wind before US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson arrival in Moscow's Vnukovo airport, Russia, Tuesday, April 11, 2017. Tillerson is due to meet with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Wednesday.

Asked about Putin possibly skipping a meeting with Tillerson, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said, "There is a bit of irony that for all of these talks that have been perpetuated about back channels and direct links, that now it's they won't meet with you." At a minimum, Tillerson will meet Wednesday with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, and the two are expected to take questions from reporters.


As Tillerson landed in Moscow, senior White House officials briefed reporters on declassified U.S. intelligence they said disproved Russia's claim that rebels were responsible for the chemical weapons. In an accompanying four-page memo, the U.S. accused Russia of a disinformation campaign and aiding Syria in covering up the gruesome attack, which killed more than 80 people.


"Russia's allegations fit with a pattern of deflecting blame from the regime and attempting to undermine the credibility of its opponents," the report read.

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis told reporters at the Pentagon, "It is very clear who planned this attack, who authorized this attack and who orchestrated this attack."
Putin's government has been incensed by the Trump administration's public accusations, and even more so by U.S. military intervention in Syria. The retaliatory strikes, which Obama declined to approve after blaming Assad for an even deadlier chemical weapons attack in 2013, hit an air base where Russian troops were also present, although none are believed to have been killed.

Meeting allies earlier Tuesday in Italy, Tillerson delivered an ultimatum to Russia: Side either with the U.S. and its dozens of coalition partners or face the isolation of a partnership with Assad, Iran and Hezbollah. That may hardly be punishment for the Kremlin, which dismissed many of Obama's similar warnings about Russia being sucked into a quagmire in Syria with no way out while tarnishing its international reputation.

Trump may not have much to offer Russia currently. Even if Moscow cooperates, the allegations of election meddling have weakened the U.S. leader's hand to deliver on any significant carrot, such as a loosening of the U.S. and European economic sanctions stemming from Russia's actions in Ukraine.

And wielding the stick of potential military action is risky. Trump's cruise missile order restored the believability of Washington using its military might in Syria.

But if Moscow ignores Trump's entreaties or if Assad uses chemical weapons again, bad options await Trump. He can order more military action, with the danger of an escalating America involvement in a war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people. Or he can hold back and risk losing face like Obama.

Putin seems undeterred. Hours after Tillerson's warning, his office announced Russia would host Syria and Iran's foreign ministers for a three-way meeting Friday, the day after Tillerson departs.


Associated Press writer Vivian Salama in Washington contributed to this report.


 
Mattingly23NY said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...l-shipments-opts-for-us-supplies-instead.html

I'd love to see the transcripts of Trumps meeting with the Chinese last week....

something is going on behind the scenes, or it appears to be, even tho' one can't trust the chinese by their words, only by their actions, and this is a good start....imo, China's not going to screw themselves over this dirt bag in Pyongpang....let's finish it, get it over with....watch the sewer rats scurry. People who've been so utterly brainwashed they never will know truth, or peace....
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...the coal deal is gonna piss off N. Korea big time.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...the fact that Putin was given a half hour's notice to get his folks out before the cruise missiles hit the airport isn't exactly news and was reported immediately after the US reported the action they had taken.

... Matt's post/link was about was the fact that Russia not only knew about Syria's chemical weapons bombings and subsequent bombing of the hospital but the Russians were also.complicit. This technically makes Putin guilty of war crimes. As I said earlier, the US and other countries should sanction the shit out of Russia...fuck 'em.
...but they're our "friend", right?
Click to expand...

No doubt the Russians knew he still had wmds, and yeah I just saw the story where the Russians participated in trying to cover it up by bombing the hospital with the survivors.

I think the current diplomatic paint Russia into a corner could result in sanctions.

Friends only in the context that we don't directly shoot at each other, just like WW2.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...^^^and putting enough strain on Russia's iffy economy could result in Putin being ousted.
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^^^^ great point 59- (59 tomahawks, chuckling)

I'd make this a priority. In the last 20 years, we've seen the United Russia Party "Duma" House/Seat membership, go from a 51% majority to its current 76.22% ruling membership. Of the 450 Duma seats, the United Russia party holds 342 seats.

20 years ago, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation (CPRF) held 49% of Duma seats, and currently holds but a mere 57 seat minority; or approx- 11%. In these last 20-30 years since Gorby; hard line Communists have deteriorated from a close 49% of Duma seats. In the past, the CPRF hawks were willing and waiting with enough members to enact a military coup if necessary, and sat back anxiously waiting for the economy and Gorby's policies to fail. The CPRF has always been wanting to return Russia back to communist extreme left ideology of the USSR. Had the economy of tanked worse than it did; we may of seen a coup.

In the time that's elapsed since Gorby's Perestroika (re-structuring); & Glasnost (open public knowledge), the CPRF has lost its foothold of a once threatening membership. Less Russian's believe in old USSR communist politics. While the UR has grown exponentially.

One of the key priorities, to the UR's- 3/4's majority party platform; has always been the nations economy. With its economy up and running, recovered from decades of public suffrage; the CPRF numbers have dwindled to antiquated beliefs.

What I'm simply saying, is the current social, and political stance of Russia, is more ripe now than ever, to unseat Putin. Strong sanctions, and I mean strong from our other allies, including China, to put a hurt on Russia's economy by choking off the flow of imported natural resources, as well as aid, or food staples; or whatever the Russians need the most. Sanctions could/should put enough hurt on its economy; enough to infuriate the people and UR party, enough to unseat the fk....

Under Obumanation, sanctions were a selective joke, or a mask of pretending to do something, while doing little to nothing. We've got to have enough influence with allies, they will do the same. Obuma never did this much, ie got the aid of our allies to do the same....
 
note: this link contains multiple articles-

interesting times, -

http://www.defensenews.com/articles...tm_term=Editorial - Army - Daily News Roundup

1- WASHINGTON — U.S. President Donald Trump has said NATO is "no longer obsolete," a huge reversal from an oft-stated stance that alarmed U.S. allies, and one in a series of recent foreign policy U-turns.

2- UNITED NATIONS — Russia vetoed a Western-backed U.N. resolution Wednesday that would have condemned the reported use of chemical weapons

  • China typically sides with Russia in the Security Council, including in opposing U.S.-backed measures to punish Syria for its use of chemical weapons. So China's decision to abstain rather than join Russia in vetoing the resolution at this time was a significant shift for Beijing.
  • Britain's U.N. Ambassador Matthew Rycroft said it was Russia's eighth veto in support of President Bashar Assad's regime and asked: "How could anyone look at the faces of lifeless children" and yet veto this resolution?

​
3- WASHINGTON — The United States and China struck what appeared to be an unusual bargain Wednesday as President Donald Trump said he won't label China a currency manipulator and voiced confidence Chinese President Xi Jinping will help him deal with North Korea's mounting threat.

Another result of the diplomatic wrangling: a surprising Chinese abstention on a U.N. resolution condemning a Syrian chemical weapons attack.

  • In a newspaper interview and a White House news conference, Trump hailed the rapport he developed with Xi during last week's Florida summit, which seems to have yielded an immediate easing of tensions related to the U.S.-Chinese trade imbalance and how to prevent Pyongyang from developing a nuclear missile capable of reaching the United States.

  • "I think he wants to help us with North Korea," Trump said of Xi, crediting China in the news conference with taking a "big step" by turning back boats of coal that North Korea sells to its northern neighbor. North Korea conducts some 90 percent of its trade with China.
 
"MOAB" - Mother Of All Bombs-
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The MOAB is not a penetrator weapon and is primarily intended for soft to medium surface targets covering extended areas and targets in a contained environment such as a deep canyon or within a cave system. However, multiple strikes with lower yield ordnance may be more effective and can be delivered by fighter/bombers such as the F-16 with greater stand-off capability than the C-130 and C-17 High altitude carpet bombing with much smaller 230-to-910-kilogram (500 to 2,000 lb) bombs delivered via heavy bombers such as the B-52, B-2, B-1; and is also highly effective at covering large areas.
 
...^^^ from what I've read, that thing has an effective radius of 1 mile in every direction from the point of detonation...that's a bad mofo.
 
.
....holy crap !



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