Trump hasnt even sworn in yet

[dviss1]

I do not believe the right side is as prevalent as the left. The left started this entire thing with labeling, marginalization, classes, identities, groups, etc. Listen to the Joe Rogan Experience video #877, the professor goes in depth about this.

Clueless post.

 

[blue32]

Clueless post.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I remember that. Deplorable.

Agreed, as are all the hate crimes perpetrated by racists using Trump's election as an excuse to act on their hatred.

Point is, hate crimes do come from both sides. As do inflammatory rhetoric, "identity politics", ignorance, etc. No one side of the aisle has a monopoly on bad behavior, and vilifying by association accomplishes nothing.

 

[dviss1]

Agreed, as are all the hate crimes perpetrated by racists using Trump's election as an excuse to act on their hatred.

Point is, hate crimes do come from both sides. As do inflammatory rhetoric, "identity politics", ignorance, etc. No one side of the aisle has a monopoly on bad behavior, and vilifying by association accomplishes nothing.

Saying they "come from both sides" flies in the face of reality though. You may have 20+ of 800+ hate crimes coming from the left.

 

[Sedatedfork]

it's still fucking retarded to have protected class. laws should be applied equally to crimes. if i murder a white man i should do life in prison or more preferably get the death penalty. i should get the same punishment if i murder a black man. this is why it sounds racist to me. because now instead of investigating one man murdered another man, we have to know what race, religion, sexual preference they were and whether or not that fit into the crime. beg my pardon, but who fucking cares, he murdered someone, fucking cap him.

it's like the news lately. "black man killed by white cop"
"black Muslim terrorist killed by white cop"
instead of "man killed by cop"

there is so much focus on their race and belief system and we wonder why we are all fighting over the bullshit that shouldn't matter. but i'm racist?

Just because you kill a black person does not mean you committed a hate crime. A hate crime is penalty enhancement for a crime committed where the particular victim was selected because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation... Just because you murder a black man doesn't make it a hate crime. However, if your motive was "I want to kill a black guy" and you murder a black guy, then yes you are subject to penalty enhancement upon a jury finding that you selected your victim because he was black. Similarly, if you wanted to kill white people, and selected your victim because he/she was white then you also have committed a hate crime. If the intent was to terrorize a protected class, you know -- like the KKK does -- don't you think the punishment should be more severe? That is the purpose of hate crime legislation. The crime wasn't just to harm an individual, it was to terrorize a particular population of people. It sounds like your issue isn't so much hate crimes, as it is that you want the death penalty for all murderers.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Saying they "come from both sides" flies in the face of reality though. You may have 20+ of 800+ hate crimes coming from the left.

Pure speculation. And pointless. "They do it more often than we do!" Yeah, and everyone who does it is a moronic criminal. What does the finger pointing accomplish?

 

[dviss1]

Pure speculation. And pointless. "They do it more often than we do!" Yeah, and everyone who does it is a moronic criminal. What does the finger pointing accomplish?

It's not speculation. Did you see my post from forbes?

 

[Further]

I do not believe the right side is as prevalent as the left. The left started this entire thing with labeling, marginalization, classes, identities, groups, etc. Listen to the Joe Rogan Experience video #877, the professor goes in depth about this.

I listen to Joe and believe I heard that one. I disagree completely that the left is more to blame, you are talking about an interview with someone who is known specifically for that viewpoint. But, assigning blame to one side or the other just continues to amplify the gap.

By the way, I know tons of liberals in real life, and all of them disagree with this neo-fascist new liberal wing and its ridged bldming which actually works contrary to what real liberalism is. The idea that some "liberals" want to hinder the first amendments protections is disgusting. I think you should give respect to people, call them by whatever they prefer, but I don't think it's healthy to compel anyone.

 

[dviss1]

Pure speculation. And pointless. "They do it more often than we do!" Yeah, and everyone who does it is a moronic criminal. What does the finger pointing accomplish?

It's not speculation at all.

http://www.sportstwo.com/posts/4022740/

 

[PtldPlatypus]

It's not speculation. Did you see my post from forbes?

Let's take this back. I replied to your response to Further, who took issue with your statement that "the Trumpers are committing hate crimes right and left". This is the type of commentary with which he and I take issue. People committing hate crimes are simply that--people committing hate crimes, and people who should be prosecuted therefor.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with commentary about "Trumpers committing hate crimes"? And before you reply, first I might you request consider how you would respond to someone else making the exact same statement, but replacing "hate crimes" with "acts of terrorism", and "Trumpers" with "Muslims"?

Neither claim is really accurate. In neither case are the actions of the few representative of the many. In neither case does the finger-pointing accomplish anything.

 

[Denny Crane]

But @Further do you really think anyone on the left is committing any of the 425+ hate crimes that have happened since the the election? I did see the riots and the burning of a car with fuck Trump on it. That shit is deplorable. But have we seen any liberals committing crimes of hate?

I don't think it was Trump supporters who did that.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://vidmax.com/video/141315-Who-...-attacked-while-the-liberal-media-blames-them

 

[dviss1]

I'll rephrase my statement then. The vast majority of hate crimes since the election have been committed by Trumpers.

This is a fact. So, get your people because it's like they want a race war.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'll rephrase my statement then. The vast majority of hate crimes since the election have been committed by Trumpers.

This is a fact. So, get your people because it's like they want a race war.

Not sure that's even true. It looks roughly 50-50 to me.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'll rephrase my statement then. The vast majority of hate crimes since the election have been committed by Trumpers.

This is a fact. So, get your people because it's like they want a race war.

First--I didn't vote for Trump.
Second--even if I did, people who commit hate crimes are not and have never been "my people". I think they're deplorable, and willingly say as much.

If your statement is not directed toward me, but toward those who did vote for Trump, then feel free to disregard my comments above.

 

[dviss1]

Not sure that's even true. It looks roughly 50-50 to me.

It's nowhere near 50/50... You have this view because you must not be paying attention. Again from forbes:

 

[dviss1]

First--I didn't vote for Trump.
Second--even if I did, people who commit hate crimes are not and have never been "my people". I think they're deplorable, and willingly say as much.

If your statement is not directed toward me, but toward those who did vote for Trump, then feel free to disregard my comments above.

I realize I was responding to your post but I was speaking to the Trump voters.

 

[Denny Crane]

I want to hold him to this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-promises-civil-rights-agenda-in-detroit-address/

 

[Denny Crane]

It's nowhere near 50/50... You have this view because you must not be paying attention. Again from forbes:

They're deliberately not counting attacks on Trump supporters.

The Southern Poverty Law Center simply wouldn't do that.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

It's nowhere near 50/50... You have this view because you must not be paying attention. Again from forbes:

Do you have the link to the article?

I'm curious--the headline refers to "hate crimes", but the chart specifically states "incidents". I wonder if there is a significant difference. I'm also curious as to the method by which the SPLC compiled their statistics.

 

[dviss1]

They're deliberately not counting attacks on Trump supporters.

The Southern Poverty Law Center simply wouldn't do that.

Huh? Are you not seeing anti-Trump/Trump general listed there?

 

[dviss1]

Do you have the link to the article?

I'm curious--the headline refers to "hate crimes", but the chart specifically states "incidents". I wonder if there is a significant difference. I'm also curious as to the method by which the SPLC compiled their statistics.

It's in a previous post in this thread.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Just because you kill a black person does not mean you committed a hate crime. A hate crime is penalty enhancement for a crime committed where the particular victim was selected because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation... Just because you murder a black man doesn't make it a hate crime. However, if your motive was "I want to kill a black guy" and you murder a black guy, then yes you are subject to penalty enhancement upon a jury finding that you selected your victim because he was black. Similarly, if you wanted to kill white people, and selected your victim because he/she was white then you also have committed a hate crime. If the intent was to terrorize a protected class, you know -- like the KKK does -- don't you think the punishment should be more severe? That is the purpose of hate crime legislation. The crime wasn't just to harm an individual, it was to terrorize a particular population of people. It sounds like your issue isn't so much hate crimes, as it is that you want the death penalty for all murderers.

i dont see why the penalty should be "worse". or better yet, i dont see why the penalty for a non hate crime should be less. regardless of your motivation murder is never ok (except in self defense or the defense of others, but that's not murder). I think you would have to hate someone to murder them unless you are a psychopath, then you wouldnt be doing it because they were black or christian either, you'd just be doing it because you're fucked in the head.

how about if a gang member kills another gang member of a rival gang. it's clearly hate driven but gang members are not a protected class. this is why the term hate crime is fucking retarded to me.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

http://vidmax.com/video/141315-Who-...-attacked-while-the-liberal-media-blames-them

Something, something those people deserved it... something, something Hispanic male saying Fuck Trump N***a (will personally never understand why they say that freely lol)... something, something republicans are racist and evil.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Interesting. Clicked through to the base report.

The 867 hate incidents described here come from two sources — submissions to the #ReportHate page on the SPLC website and media accounts.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the vast majority of the incidents in their compilation came from reports to their website, and that media accounts were likely a small percentage.

I also don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the vast majority of visitors to the SPLC website are not Trump supporters.

Therefore, I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that the very nature of the method of data collection skews the results.

I don't doubt or dispute that racists/nationalists have been emboldened by Trump's election. But it's also valid to point out that just because that chart was published by Forbes doesn't make it accurate scientific research.

 

[Denny Crane]

Huh? Are you not seeing anti-Trump/Trump general listed there?

I think they're being picky/choosey about what they consider "hate" crimes. There's also a big difference between hurling an insult and firebombing a republican party office.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

how about a kid goes into a school shooting and he hates jews. he shoots 3 jews and 1 randon innocent bystander. he's standing trial. he has 3 counts of a hate murder and 1 count of murder. does he get say 20 years each for the hate murders and 10 years for the random? so now the parents of teh random feel like their kids life was worth less?

 

[Denny Crane]

Interesting. Clicked through to the base report.



I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the vast majority of the incidents in their compilation came from reports to their website, and that media accounts were likely a small percentage.

I also don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the vast majority of visitors to the SPLC website are not Trump supporters.

Therefore, I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that the very nature of the method of data collection skews the results.

I don't doubt or dispute that racists/nationalists have been emboldened by Trump's election. But it's also valid to point out that just because that chart was published by Forbes doesn't make it accurate scientific research.

There you go.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

There you go.

You are, however, going to take the time to read the report for yourself rather than just take my analysis at face value, right?

 

[Denny Crane]

You are, however, going to take the time to read the report for yourself rather than just take my analysis at face value, right?

I just looked at the report. Even the "what constitutes against Trump"