Politics Trump in Full Panic, Claims All Epstein Files Are Fake, Created by Obama

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SharpeScooterShooter said:
No problem. That was the only thing I personally question. I guess we just disagree on that portion, though, i do think it's one of the biggest portions. People say they will do things they don't do all the time. Maybe they will. But the faster and more efficient has to account for dealing with driving off route to a carpool or transit stop and parking, often having to pay for parking, the loss of privacy and being able to rock out loud or smoke a cigarette, weather. I don't think many of these things are thought about by the pollsters. I've watched it happen in Seattle. Get voted in and then not used.

Now, in all fairness, I've seen it in the NW, where it's cold and wet. But I think in S. Cal, people would just as easily stay in their AC cars on hot days, than stand outside and in a sardined mass transit car.

When polls like this are taken, I question whether the people answering have thought out all the scenarios. This is one of those times I think polls could possibly provide a false narrative. Just my opinion.
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I was just in Vegas where it was 115 degrees. Streets were crawling with people carrying grocery bags, etc. i promise you they'd love the option to ride the bus or a train.

Allowing those people to easily and cheaply get further from their area would be great for the economy.

Downtown Portland could be far busier if it were only a 15 minute ride from anywhere in the Portland metro area.

This is why the same house near the light rail is typically worth more than the same house in the same city which is further from light rail.

All of my kids and my younger in-laws prefer riding public transportation over buying a car and driving.

People who don't know it may not like it. Bit once they experience the savings and freedom of not having to drive you get more amd more converts.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It absolutely helps address the emergencies mentioned. No question.
It's an argument for using emergency powers to address emergencies.
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Except it doesn't address it, not really. HSR is not going to stop climate change. It might contribute some tiny fraction toward the solution, but so might a lot of other things.

If it's as popular as you say (and I wish it was) then emergency powers aren't necessary anyway.

I'm certainly open to suggestions as to better alternatives. High speed rail is simply an example of the Dems failure to deliver.
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Yeah, I get that, and this conversation is certainly meandering between discussion of Democrats, HSR, light rail, Epstein, and who knows what else.

It seems to me that you're advocating for the same strategy that lost to Trump twice.
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Nope. I'm advocating for getting more voters into the tent, not fewer.

You are advocating for the Dems to do exactly what you think is best, and to ignore anyone who has different priorities.
I'm not saying your priorities are wrongheaded or anything like that. I am saying that many voters have different priorities than you.
It's a big tent (albeit not quite big enough), and there are a LOT of people with very different priorities.
You want to just focus on a few things and deprioritize the things you don't think are important enough. That will inevitably turn off the voters who care deeply about the things you've tossed on the unimportant pile.

If/when you or someone else convinces a huge fraction of the population that your priorities are their priorities, then no problem - every politician will be fighting to 'lead' toward your goals.
But as long as the voter base is Balkanized, politicians have to cobble together coalitions of not-incredibly-like-minded voters in order to win.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Except it doesn't address it, not really. HSR is not going to stop climate change. It might contribute some tiny fraction toward the solution, but so might a lot of other things.
Click to expand...
No single solution will stop climate change.
If it's as popular as you say (and I wish it was) then emergency powers aren't necessary anyway.
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Emergency powers has nothing to do with popularity.

California already approved HSR. I'm not sure why you think people wanting it will make it happen. It's been approved and supported by California for literally decades. Red tape has prevented this popular idea from becoming reality.

Democrats need to figure that out.
Yeah, I get that, and this conversation is certainly meandering between discussion of Democrats, HSR, light rail, Epstein, and who knows what else.



Nope. I'm advocating for getting more voters into the tent, not fewer.
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How? What are you proposing that is different than the Dem strategy of the last 20 years? The strategy which has given Donald Trump ar least 8 years to quite possibly destroy democracy in country for good..

You are advocating for the Dems to do exactly what you think is best, and to ignore anyone who has different priorities.
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Who am I suggesting Dems ignore?
I'm not saying your priorities are wrongheaded or anything like that. I am saying that many voters have different priorities than you.
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Please be specific. Who is left out of my proposals?
It's a big tent (albeit not quite big enough), and there are a LOT of people with very different priorities.
You want to just focus on a few things and deprioritize the things you don't think are important enough. That will inevitably turn off the voters who care deeply about the things you've tossed on the unimportant pile.
Click to expand...
What is being tossed on the unimportant pile?
If/when you or someone else convinces a huge fraction of the population that your priorities are their priorities, then no problem - every politician will be fighting to 'lead' toward your goals.
But as long as the voter base is Balkanized, politicians have to cobble together coalitions of not-incredibly-like-minded voters in order to win.

barfo
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Everything I've suggested has incredibly broad support.
 
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I honestly believe there is a direct correlation between the increased bike lanes in downtown Portland and the strangling of businesses and the lack of people down there.

It's only getting harder and harder to navigate down there if you're in a car.

....

And you fucks wonderful people have just ruined this thread.

So how much is Trump paying you to derail this thread?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I honestly believe there is a direct correlation between the increased bike lanes in downtown Portland and the strangling of businesses and the lack of people down there.

It's only getting harder and harder to navigate down there if you're in a car.

....

And you fucks wonderful people have just ruined this thread.

So how much is Trump paying you to derail this thread?
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Uhhh….

SharpeScooterShooter said:
Wait. I just realized what thread we are talking in. Should this convo maybe be in it's own "Mass Transit Thread" or something? I mean it might get bigger than the Mass Melo Thread!!!
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Donald Trump says those interested in Jeffrey Epstein inquiry are ‘bad people’
US president faces Maga backlash over suspicion his administration is hiding details of Epstein’s crimes to protect rich elite – including Trump


Donald Trump has dismissed a secretive inquiry into the sex offender Jeffrey Epstein as “boring” and of interest only to “bad people”, but said he backed the release of any “credible” files, as he sought to stamp out a conspiracy-fuelled uproar among his supporters.

The US president is facing a political crisis within his usually loyal Republican Make America Great Again (Maga) base over suspicion that the administration is hiding details of Epstein’s crimes to protect the rich elite he associated with, which included Trump.

One of the most dramatic theories circulating among supporters is that Epstein – who killed himself in 2019 while in federal custody – was murdered by powerful figures to cover up their roles in his sex crimes against children.

“I don’t understand why the Jeffrey Epstein case would be of interest to anybody,” Trump told reporters on Tuesday night when asked why his supporters are so interested in the case. “It’s pretty boring stuff. It’s sordid, but it’s boring, and I don’t understand why it keeps going.

“I think really only pretty bad people, including fake news, want to keep something like that going,” he added. “But credible information, let them give it. Anything that is credible, I would say, let them have it.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...misses-inquiry-into-jeffrey-epstein-as-boring
 
I realize Trump is one of the stupidest people on earth but ... If Obama, Hillary Clinton, et al created Epstein files, why would they keep files secret for years? If files created to hurt Trump, how would they if hidden?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Donald Trump says those interested in Jeffrey Epstein inquiry are ‘bad people’
US president faces Maga backlash over suspicion his administration is hiding details of Epstein’s crimes to protect rich elite – including Trump


Donald Trump has dismissed a secretive inquiry into the sex offender Jeffrey Epstein as “boring” and of interest only to “bad people”, but said he backed the release of any “credible” files, as he sought to stamp out a conspiracy-fuelled uproar among his supporters.

The US president is facing a political crisis within his usually loyal Republican Make America Great Again (Maga) base over suspicion that the administration is hiding details of Epstein’s crimes to protect the rich elite he associated with, which included Trump.

One of the most dramatic theories circulating among supporters is that Epstein – who killed himself in 2019 while in federal custody – was murdered by powerful figures to cover up their roles in his sex crimes against children.

“I don’t understand why the Jeffrey Epstein case would be of interest to anybody,” Trump told reporters on Tuesday night when asked why his supporters are so interested in the case. “It’s pretty boring stuff. It’s sordid, but it’s boring, and I don’t understand why it keeps going.

“I think really only pretty bad people, including fake news, want to keep something like that going,” he added. “But credible information, let them give it. Anything that is credible, I would say, let them have it.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...misses-inquiry-into-jeffrey-epstein-as-boring
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Did he just call his own base bad people? Lmao
 
Phatguysrule said:
No single solution will stop climate change.

Emergency powers has nothing to do with popularity.

California already approved HSR. I'm not sure why you think people wanting it will make it happen. It's been approved and supported by California for literally decades. Red tape has prevented this popular idea from becoming reality.
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I think you are oversimplifying. California may have approved HSR, but California wanted to use a whole lot of federal dollars to build it. And guess who doesn't give a shit about HSR in California? A whole lot of people in other states.

And what you call red tape, some people would call adherence to the law. Yes, there is a constituency for detailed, exhaustive environmental reviews of development projects. And there are landowners who have legal rights to file objections to having their land taken.

Who am I suggesting Dems ignore?

Please be specific. Who is left out of my proposals?

What is being tossed on the unimportant pile?
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See above for a couple of examples.

You should be able to answer those questions yourself, though. You are the one who said

"I've suggested they narrow their focus"
and
"Supporting a few overall policies would solve the problems of nearly all of these factions. Universal access to healthcare, education, and top quality social safety net."

The things left out are all the things that aren't on that list.

Everything I've suggested has incredibly broad support.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between 'yeah, that utopian ideal sounds good to me' and 'yeah, I am in favor of doing X and not Y,Z,AA,AB, AC...'.

Politics is a little harder than you are willing to admit. The cats don't actually want to be herded.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I think you are oversimplifying. California may have approved HSR, but California wanted to use a whole lot of federal dollars to build it. And guess who doesn't give a shit about HSR in California? A whole lot of people in other states.

And what you call red tape, some people would call adherence to the law. Yes, there is a constituency for detailed, exhaustive environmental reviews of development projects. And there are landowners who have legal rights to file objections to having their land taken.



See above for a couple of examples.

You should be able to answer those questions yourself, though. You are the one who said

"I've suggested they narrow their focus"
and
"Supporting a few overall policies would solve the problems of nearly all of these factions. Universal access to healthcare, education, and top quality social safety net."

The things left out are all the things that aren't on that list.



There's a difference between 'yeah, that utopian ideal sounds good to me' and 'yeah, I am in favor of doing X and not Y,Z,AA,AB, AC...'.

Politics is a little harder than you are willing to admit. The cats don't actually want to be herded.

barfo
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Yes it's all much more difficult until you actually narrow your focus and explain to people how their issues are solved by these narrow set of solutions.

The federal funding is already there for California HSR. Federal funding is not the problem.

The state of California already has land running every place that they need to go.

The few people who may have their property impacted by a proper HSR plan could easily be generously compensated.

You're talking about a 1 to 2 year delay. Not decades.

What you are doing is making excuses for lack of action. For inability to deliver. People are sick of it and they are not going to support it any longer.

I understand that you have been convinced for years that this is the way it has to be. But the reality is that it doesn't have to be this way.

Other countries can get large public works like this done without catastrophic damage the environment. Those things can be mitigated in a reasonable time frame.

Three decades is not a reasonable time frame. Anybody making excuses for that time frame needs to be ejected from Democratic leadership. There is no support for that any longer. Refusing to do so will be the death of the Democratic Party and possibly the end of democracy in this country.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yes it's all much more difficult until you actually narrow your focus and explain to people how their issues are solved by these narrow set of solutions.

The federal funding is already there for California HSR. Federal funding is not the problem.

The state of California already has land running every place that they need to go.

The few people who may have their property impacted by a proper HSR plan could easily be generously compensated.

You're talking about a 1 to 2 year delay. Not decades.

What you are doing is making excuses for lack of action. For inability to deliver. People are sick of it and they are not going to support it any longer.

I understand that you have been convinced for years that this is the way it has to be. But the reality is that it doesn't have to be this way.

Other countries can get large public works like this done without catastrophic damage the environment. Those things can be mitigated in a reasonable time frame.

Three decades is not a reasonable time frame. Anybody making excuses for that time frame needs to be ejected from Democratic leadership. There is no support for that any longer. Refusing to do so will be the death of the Democratic Party and possibly the end of democracy in this country.
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Well, your viewpoint is clear.
You think I'm making excuses, I think I'm acknowledging reality.
But if the Democrats suddenly discover their ability to fix all our problems, and we all live happily ever after, I will be delighted to say you were right.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Well, your viewpoint is clear.
You think I'm making excuses, I think I'm acknowledging reality.
But if the Democrats suddenly discover their ability to fix all our problems, and we all live happily ever after, I will be delighted to say you were right.

barfo
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You've given no solutions as to how Democrats could be more productive or improve their appeal to more people (as you claim is your goal).

You've literally only listed reasons we should be okay with the current state of the Democratic party.

That's the definition of making excuses.

If the Democrats don't change they aren't going to win many more elections. They'll continue to be blamed by Republicans and have nothing productive to hang their hats on. They'll just blame Republicans for their inability to govern. Excuses.
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
Donald Trump says those interested in Jeffrey Epstein inquiry are ‘bad people’
US president faces Maga backlash over suspicion his administration is hiding details of Epstein’s crimes to protect rich elite – including Trump


Donald Trump has dismissed a secretive inquiry into the sex offender Jeffrey Epstein as “boring” and of interest only to “bad people”, but said he backed the release of any “credible” files, as he sought to stamp out a conspiracy-fuelled uproar among his supporters.

The US president is facing a political crisis within his usually loyal Republican Make America Great Again (Maga) base over suspicion that the administration is hiding details of Epstein’s crimes to protect the rich elite he associated with, which included Trump.

One of the most dramatic theories circulating among supporters is that Epstein – who killed himself in 2019 while in federal custody – was murdered by powerful figures to cover up their roles in his sex crimes against children.

“I don’t understand why the Jeffrey Epstein case would be of interest to anybody,” Trump told reporters on Tuesday night when asked why his supporters are so interested in the case. “It’s pretty boring stuff. It’s sordid, but it’s boring, and I don’t understand why it keeps going.

“I think really only pretty bad people, including fake news, want to keep something like that going,” he added. “But credible information, let them give it. Anything that is credible, I would say, let them have it.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...misses-inquiry-into-jeffrey-epstein-as-boring
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Is he saying, remove his name from the list/files and release it?
 
Phatguysrule said:
You've given no solutions as to how Democrats could be more productive or improve their appeal to more people (as you claim is your goal).
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That is true, and also: not my department.

You've literally only listed reasons we should be okay with the current state of the Democratic party.

That's the definition of making excuses.
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Nope. I didn't say once that you should be ok with it. I do think your idea that the democratic party could just 'do better' and all the problems would just disappear, is kind of a ridiculous fantasy.

They can definitely do better. They will always continue to be a bunch of humans with different ideas, different capabilities, different weaknesses, different priorities. They will continue to never have a magic wand for fixing problems and making everything hunky-dory. But they can do better, sure. My expectations for "better" are simply more realistic/pessimistic than yours.

If the Democrats don't change they aren't going to win many more elections. They'll continue to be blamed by Republicans and have nothing productive to hang their hats on. They'll just blame Republicans for their inability to govern. Excuses.
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You could have said this at any point in American history - well, at least since the Civil War - and it would have been just as true. Or you could say it about the Republican Party instead. Doesn't really matter.

barfo
 
barfo said:
That is true, and also: not my department.
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Your department is just making excuses for the status quo.
Nope. I didn't say once that you should be ok with it. I do think your idea that the democratic party could just 'do better' and all the problems would just disappear, is kind of a ridiculous fantasy.
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I've given very clear examples of steps that I'd like to see taken. I've made it clear that these aren't all of the examples, and that I'm open to any other suggestions.

Never once have I suggested anything about a magic wand or that anybody should just "do better".

They can definitely do better. They will always continue to be a bunch of humans with different ideas, different capabilities, different weaknesses, different priorities. They will continue to never have a magic wand for fixing problems and making everything hunky-dory. But they can do better, sure. My expectations for "better" are simply more realistic/pessimistic than yours.
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Once again I've never suggested there was a magic wand or that everything could easily be "hunky-dory".

That is what you say when anybody has any suggestions of what they could actually do better.

I suggest they need to have a more narrow focus and you claim I'm advocating for a magic wand.

It almost feels like you're on the DNC payroll.
You could have said this at any point in American history - well, at least since the Civil War - and it would have been just as true. Or you could say it about the Republican Party instead. Doesn't really matter.

barfo
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I disagree. I think we are at a point now in which American democracy is in greater danger than ever.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I disagree. I think we are at a point now in which American democracy is in greater danger than ever.
Click to expand...

Yes, if democracy dies there won't be any more elections, therefore Democrats won't win any more elections.

barfo
 
Bill O'Reilly was too much even for Fox but heaven forbid he's off the air. Kept repeating Biden responsible for Epstein files because Biden attorney general convicted Epstein. Who was convicted by Trump attorney general William Barr and who died in 2019 while Trump was president. O'Reilly had to be reminded several times Biden couldn't have prosecuted a dead man.
 
Trump today fired prosecutor who prosecuted Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Great timing if he wants people to stop talking about the issue.
 
Not just O'Reilly. Trump himself now saying prosecution happened under Biden. He also blamed Biden for hiring Chairman of Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell. Trump hired him during first term.
 
Because we were discussing California's HSR project, here's news from today:
"Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy has formally terminated $4 billion in federal funding for the California High-Speed Rail Authority"

barfo
 
barfo said:
Because we were discussing California's HSR project, here's news from today:
"Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy has formally terminated $4 billion in federal funding for the California High-Speed Rail Authority"

barfo
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I blame Epstein.
 
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