Politics Trump retweets video of supporter shouting 'white power'

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I personally think socialism sounds superficially reasonable and falls apart when you probe at all, at least on the more extreme side.

I agree with you. I think both socialism and capitalism fail at the extremes, and Libertarianism is what I'd consider the extreme edge of capitalism. I wouldn't want something akin to communism either, which could be viewed as the extreme edge of socialism. A solid mix of the two socioeconomic systems is necessary.
 
I agree with you. I think both socialism and capitalism fail at the extremes, and Libertarianism is what I'd consider the extreme edge of capitalism. I wouldn't want something akin to communism either, which could be viewed as the extreme edge of socialism. A solid mix of the two socioeconomic systems is necessary.
I kind of view libertarianism (which if you research it, there are a lot of different groups that call themselves libertarians), as this. On many social issues, they are much further to the left than the traditional GOP. Economically, yes they go kind of crazy on the Capitalistic side. I think a none regulated corporate greed fest is obviously bad, though Im not sure if its + | - | = to the crony capitalist crap fest we have now. I definitely wouldnt advocate for the %100 free market that if an extreme libertarian was in power would fight for.
 
I mean it was never really very cool, those of us who never supported him had our obvious reasons for that... But at this point people who are "die hard" Trump supporters really have no excuse for supporting him. Like at this point all the EVIDENCE is out there!

What you or I see as evidence of his unfitness, his base sees as evidence that he is a gift from gawd.
 
Support doesn't mean all out support. I wear suspenders with my suits. Sometimes the support they provide gives me wedgies and that's when I pull down on my shorts against the support of my necessary suspenders used to hold my pants up. I hope this puts it into terms you can relate to.

Sorry, no. I don't wear pants.

barfo
 
Sorry, no. I don't wear pants.

barfo
I'd forgotten bloomers or pantaloons aren't actually pants but the tights underneath makeup for the shortage..pirates have always been cutting edge in the world of fashion
 
I agree, the hardcore Trump supporters who make their logic look like pretzels, its a cultism personality.
I had an aunt (she’s passed now), who was kind of similar except on the other end. She would only vote Democratic Women and that was it, nothing else about them mattered.
I'm not saying people cant call out ABM or El Prez or whatever other ‘Trump supporter’ they want too. Im not defending them or hardcore supporters Trump at all. I just personally find it funny when I see the comments here, has that ever led to a good conversation? Which admittedly Im not sure people are looking for, their looking to shame their enemies I guess?


Anyways... I didn't expect that original comment to snowball into whatever this.
My mother, who's passed on now, was exactly like your aunt. Her husband, my stepfather, of many years, was a staunch Republican. He learned early on not to say anything.
 
Supporting someone with whom you disagree on some topics is understandable. Supporting someone who is trying to tear this nation apart by pitting races against each other is not OK. It’s not OK.
Of course, but this is not ABM's objective.
 
I'm not sure he even knows himself what his "objective" is.
 
Of course, but this is not ABM's objective.

Yes, but it doesn't matter whether it's his objective. He tolerates it, because Trump supports his other objectives. Tolerating it and voting for Trump helps enable it.

That's the problem I have with comments like, "Not all Trump supporters are racist." No, they're not all racist, but they're all either racist or they tolerate and enable racists.
 
Yes, but it doesn't matter whether it's his objective. He tolerates it, because Trump supports his other objectives. Tolerating it and voting for Trump helps enable it.

That's the problem I have with comments like, "Not all Trump supporters are racist." No, they're not all racist, but they're all either racist or they tolerate and enable racists.
I'm not arguing with the end result, I'm just saying it's not ABM's intent. I don't like his support of Trump either but I'm not going to jump on him for an intent that he doesn't have. Yes, supporting Trump does enable his evil ways but that doesn't mean that the supporter knows that it's evil even though it's hard to fathom that they couldn't know.
And in the end, I value my friendship for other qualities that others in here know nothing about and don't seem to want to know about.
 
And in the end, I value my friendship for other qualities that others in here know nothing about and don't seem to want to know about.

I'm not arguing against your friendship with him or anyone else's friendship with him. I'm sure he's a nice guy one-on-one. My point was simply that supporting a race-baiter makes you culpable for his race-baiting, even if you didn't support him for that reason.
 
I'm not arguing against your friendship with him or anyone else's friendship with him. I'm sure he's a nice guy one-on-one. My point was simply that supporting a race-baiter makes you culpable for his race-baiting, even if you didn't support him for that reason.
It depends on what you mean by supporting. If you mean supporting his views that I find detrimental then I must agree. But if you mean supporting him as a decent human being then I must heartily disagree.
 
It depends on what you mean by supporting. If you mean supporting his views that I find detrimental then I must agree. But if you mean supporting him as a decent human being then I must heartily disagree.

My use of "support" wasn't about you and ABM. It was about ABM and Trump.
 
Yes, but it doesn't matter whether it's his objective. He tolerates it, because Trump supports his other objectives. Tolerating it and voting for Trump helps enable it.

That's the problem I have with comments like, "Not all Trump supporters are racist." No, they're not all racist, but they're all either racist or they tolerate and enable racists.
I think the problem is with the history of our country, and as bad as it is just about every "older" person has a history of racism of some kind. Look at some of the bills Pelosi, Biden, etc have pushed or voted in and what they've done to Black communities, and really most older politicians you can find a history of that type of stuff. Voting for Biden doesn't mean your a racist or tolerate racists because Biden's done crappy things to Blacks. We really, really need new "blood" so to speak in our political spectrum... These life-long politicians on like McConnel, and Graham and Pelosi and Biden have made some decisions that have been pretty freaking terrible for the people of this country. However, people who support them, aren't all "racists" and I wouldn't say that they all even enable it, they just don't feel like they have any choices in the matter, it needs to change.
 
I think the problem is with the history of our country, and as bad as it is just about every "older" person has a history of racism of some kind. Look at some of the bills Pelosi, Biden, etc have pushed or voted in and what they've done to Black communities, and really most older politicians you can find a history of that type of stuff. Voting for Biden doesn't mean your a racist or tolerate racists because Biden's done crappy things to Blacks.

There's a difference, though, between being somewhat ignorant of systemic racism and the secondary consequences of your actions and being an outright racist and race-baiter. Yes, certain things that some older Democrats supported, like various crime bills, absolutely had negative effects on the black community and they need to own that. But that's different from being intentionally racist.

If you support Biden, you're supporting someone who has in the past shown a problematic lack of understanding of racial dynamics and how his policies might exacerbate it, but at least someone who isn't looking to screw over the black community. If you vote for Biden, you hope that he's smarter about those things now.

If you support Trump, you're supporting someone who in the past and present has directly engaged in racism, has encouraged other racists, explicitly and implicitly, and has directly blamed the problems in society on black and Latino people. If you vote for Trump, you're tolerating that because it's not like Trump has suggested he wants to change his approach.

I think there's a pretty huge divide between those two things.
 
There's a difference, though, between being somewhat ignorant of systemic racism and the secondary consequences of your actions and being an outright racist and race-baiter. Yes, certain things that some older Democrats supported, like various crime bills, absolutely had negative effects on the black community and they need to own that. But that's different from being intentionally racist.

If you support Biden, you're supporting someone who has in the past shown a problematic lack of understanding of racial dynamics and how his policies might exacerbate it, but at least someone who isn't looking to screw over the black community. If you vote for Biden, you hope that he's smarter about those things now.

If you support Trump, you're supporting someone who in the past and present has directly engaged in racism, has encouraged other racists, explicitly and implicitly, and has directly blamed the problems in society on black and Latino people. If you vote for Trump, you're tolerating that because it's not like Trump has suggested he wants to change his approach.

I think there's a pretty huge divide between those two things.
I look at Biden and Pelosi as trying to politically survive. Think of the sorts of potentially racist politicians who might have replaced them and then have been unable to support Blacks today.
 
Biden is not afraid to evolve or apologize for mistakes. He also seems to have some grounded understanding that this is a big effin' ship - and you can not turn it around like you are white water rafting (which, unfortunately, is what Bernie never understood - which is what is so charming about him but also what brought him to defeat on multiple tries).
 
There's a difference, though, between being somewhat ignorant of systemic racism and the secondary consequences of your actions and being an outright racist and race-baiter. Yes, certain things that some older Democrats supported, like various crime bills, absolutely had negative effects on the black community and they need to own that. But that's different from being intentionally racist.

If you support Biden, you're supporting someone who has in the past shown a problematic lack of understanding of racial dynamics and how his policies might exacerbate it, but at least someone who isn't looking to screw over the black community. If you vote for Biden, you hope that he's smarter about those things now.

If you support Trump, you're supporting someone who in the past and present has directly engaged in racism, has encouraged other racists, explicitly and implicitly, and has directly blamed the problems in society on black and Latino people. If you vote for Trump, you're tolerating that because it's not like Trump has suggested he wants to change his approach.

I think there's a pretty huge divide between those two things.
The question is though, is Biden and those peoples choices just they lacked understanding, or did they know full well what they were doing. Im not saying we cant give them the benefit of the doubt, but certainly to some extent in order to make that argument you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. I kind of think whether they knew or nor, the fact is there policies had bad results and we need new people, with new ideas.

Do we give ‘republicans’ who were involved with the same bad / racist / unjust bills and laws that same benefit of the doubt that they just werent aware of that very system they were building?
 
I kind of think whether they knew or nor, the fact is there policies had bad results and we need new people, with new ideas.

I'm all for new people. Biden was certainly not in my top-five on the Democratic side. He may not have been in my top-ten.

Do we give ‘republicans’ who were involved with the same bad / racist / unjust bills and laws that same benefit of the doubt that they just werent aware of that very system they were building?

Sure, I think a lot of Republicans have strengthened systemic racism without realizing it. I don't think most Republican politicians are explicit racists.

I think Trump is one, though.
 
Biden is not afraid to evolve or apologize for mistakes. He also seems to have some grounded understanding that this is a big effin' ship - and you can not turn it around like you are white water rafting (which, unfortunately, is what Bernie never understood - which is what is so charming about him but also what brought him to defeat on multiple tries).
Well Trump’s ego is certainly big enough he wont apologize for anything, but at 70 whatever years old Biden is, ‘apologizing’, for saying racist things like you arent Black if you dont vote for me, at some point just apologizing because you get backlash, isnt really an admirable trait either. Again main point I think we need younger politicians and candidates, and new ideas.
 
Do we give ‘republicans’ who were involved with the same bad / racist / unjust bills and laws that same benefit of the doubt that they just werent aware of that very system they were building?

If someone is showing that they have learned from their mistakes - what does it matter if they represent(ed) one party or another.

Mitt Romney seems like a much better person today than he was before - he clearly learned that some of the things he said / how he acted before were wrong - so I have no problem with appreciating him today a lot more than I did before.

The issue is clearly with the Trumps of this world that are never wrong and are still unwilling to admit their mistakes, but choose to double down on them.
 
Of course, but this is not ABM's objective.
I am not concerned with @ABM ’s objectives because his reasoning is disingenuous. He has abandoned Jesus, most Christians have since supporting Trump is antithetical to what Jesus teaches. Trump is vile, full of hate, hurts the meek and puts himself above all. Jesus is compassionate, Trump is not. Trump is a cauldron if of fear and anger, Christianity teaches acceptance and turning the other cheek. Trump is about ego, not goodness. Trump is the most prolific liar the whitehouse had ever seen. I’ll throw in this bible verse for good measure “keep your tongue from slander; because no secret word is without result, and a lying mouth destroys the soul." Trump is vile to women and sexualizes his daughter. Trump certainly does not love his enemies, he is full of vitriol and hatred. Jesus cares about the poor, Trump mocks and vilifies them. Trump is about himself and money, gold toilet seats and his pictures on water, steaks and every other snake oil piece of shit he sells. Trump doesn’t give a shit about people, doesn’t care if they die, as long as he makes a buck.

my wife is Christian and anyone, including ABM who can support Trump under any circumstances has given their high road to the devil.
 
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