Trump supporters, what would he have to say before you would not vote for him?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

As I suspected. Your fear level is high, mine is not.

Sure, I watched the Republican convention, I guess you didn't. Trump told me everything is going to hell in a handbasket, and he's the only one that can save us.

Since it's clear he's not interested in helping anyone beyond his immediate family, I have to conclude that the rest of us are screwed.

barfo
 
Is anyone else still waiting to hear the "amazing" stuff his "investigators" found in Hawaii about President Obama's birth? That Trump has sat on for about 5 years without letting us in on the amazing secret?

I am! I am!

Hey, maybe that's the October Surprise this year. Hillary was actually born in Kenya.

barfo
 
I am! I am!

Hey, maybe that's the October Surprise this year. Hillary was actually born in Kenya.

barfo

Actually, he doesn't need to be born in Kenya to be Kenyan. The Kenyan father does the trick, by right of descent.
Then that specifically messes up of the definition of Natural Born Citizen, as far as it applies to the US.
 
Last edited:
Actually, he doesn't need to be born in Kenya to be Kenyan. The Kenyan father does the trick, by right of decent.
Then that specifically messes up of the definition of Natural Born Citizen, as far as it applies to the US.
We are not like nations that favor a paternal society though...women born in the US are granted citizenship, same as men...my wife is a naturalized citizen ..an American who was not born here either...decent has nothing to do with INS or birthright here...that's just a genetic code
 
Sure, I watched the Republican convention, I guess you didn't. Trump told me everything is going to hell in a handbasket, and he's the only one that can save us.

Since it's clear he's not interested in helping anyone beyond his immediate family, I have to conclude that the rest of us are screwed.

barfo

upload_2016-8-12_10-23-40.png

You're on the wrong side, again.

It makes zero sense to vote for the status quo candidate if you think we're on the Wrong Track.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2016-8-12_10-23-40.png
    upload_2016-8-12_10-23-40.png
    103.4 KB · Views: 28
I am! I am!

Hey, maybe that's the October Surprise this year. Hillary was actually born in Kenya.

barfo

The October surprise is that she is the leader of the Lizard people...or that she is actually British, using a fake American accent
 
Actually, he doesn't need to be born in Kenya to be Kenyan. The Kenyan father does the trick, by right of decent.
Then that specifically messes up of the definition of Natural Born Citizen, as far as it applies to the US.

I do agree everyone has the right to be decent. It's not a bad idea.

That, however, has nothing to do with citizenship which the Constitutions defines as born in the United States or naturalized. If you are born here your parents can be from Mars.
 
I do agree everyone has the right to be decent. It's not a bad idea.

That, however, has nothing to do with citizenship which the Constitutions defines as born in the United States or naturalized. If you are born here your parents can be from Mars.

Which is clearly where the Trump's hail from

download (4).jpg
 

Attachments

  • download (4).jpg
    download (4).jpg
    10.7 KB · Views: 25
We are not like nations that favor a paternal society though...women born in the US are granted citizenship, same as men...my wife is a naturalized citizen ..an American who was not born here either...decent has nothing to do with INS or birthright here...that's just a genetic code

I think you are stating it like you would like it River. The term Natural Born Citizen is used as a qualification to become President in the Constitution of the United States. The only place this term is defined, is in The Law of Nations. Madison's copy of the law of Nations is in the Smithsonian with his notes in the margins. So we do know he used it, as did Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, and others.

While the qualification and definition of citizen have changed by several acts, the definition of Natural Born Citizen has not been modified by any law. We also, to this day follow this definition partially, in that, a citizen children born abroad are still Natural Born Citizens even though not born in this country.
A foreign place of birth is just that, the place of their birth. It does not make them a citizen of that place. (Not many countries make you a citizen because of birth in territory, like our 14th amendment misguidedly did so).
And specifically, the 14th amendment did not modify the definition of Natural Born Citizen. Since we know there are not any superfluous words in the Constitution, it can not be that Natural Born Citizen is the same as Citizen. So one must look to where the term is defined, hey?
 
Last edited:
My son can run for president, even though his mother immigrated from Taiwan..I think you missed my point..
 
From the Constitution:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President
(Article II Section 1)

Natural born - does not say where father was born, where mother was born. The entire history of U.S. Constitutional law defines a natural born citizen as a person born in the US states or territories. Not one exception. Ever.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
(Amendment XIV, Section 1 )

Notice it gives two options, born or naturalized. Nothing about parents' birth.

There is nothing in the Constitution regulating citizenship by parents', or specifically fathers', birthplaces. Natural born means born. (not sure what unnatural born means...) As Bruce Springsteen said, Born in the U.S.A.

The birthers who just CAN'T STAND a n-----r in the WHITE House, have tried to discredit him by saying he was really born in Kenya or Mars or something and therefore is not legitimately president (which means that Joe Biden is). But I never heard until MarAzul's brilliant takedown of 240 years of American jurisprudence that you can be born here and still a Kenyan if your father was Kenyan.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause

The U.S. Constitution uses but does not define the phrase "natural born Citizen", and various opinions have been offered over time regarding its precise meaning. The consensus of early 21st-century constitutional scholars, together with relevant case law, is that natural-born citizens include, subject to exceptions, those born in the United States. Many scholars have also concluded that those who meet the legal requirements for U.S. citizenship "at the moment of birth", regardless of place of birth, are also natural born citizens.[2][3] Every president to date was either a citizen at the adoption of the Constitution in 1789 or was born in the United States; of those in the latter group, there have been six that had a parent who was not born on U.S. soil.[4]
 
MarAzul's argument is amusing, but not very relevant. It's pretty clear that the phrase will be interpreted to mean 'anyone who is a citizen at birth' by today's courts, regardless of parentage (Obama) or place of birth (McCain, Cruz). The founders might have had something different in mind, but then the founders never had either blacks or women in mind as eligible either.

barfo
 
Unrelated and irrelevant, but a great quote:

Trump said:
If God ever wanted an apartment in Trump Tower, I would immediately offer my best luxury suite at a very special price.

barfo
 
you can be born here and still a Kenyan if your father was Kenyan

Yes, this is the same for Children of US citizens. Like John McCain. Panama is his place of birth but he is a Natural Born US Citizen
because his parents were US citizens. The US made anyone born in the US a Citizen as of the 14th amendment, but that amendment did nothing to change the definition of Natural Born Citizen as used in the Constitution. The term already had a definition at the time the Constitution was written and ratified. It is not the same as mere citizen.

The courts have told us, there are no superfluous word in the Constitution, so I know of nowhere to look for the definition of Natural born Citizen except where is was defined contemporary with the writing of the the Constitution.

"Richfield Oil v. State Board, 329 U.S. 69 (1946) 77-78

All words in the Constitution are meaningful. Quoting Holmes v. Jennison, 14 Pet. 540, 570-71: Every word appears to have been weighed with the utmost deliberation, and its force and effect to have been fully understood. No word in the instrument, therefore, can be rejected as superfluous or unmeaning...""
 
The founders might have had something different in mind, but then the founders never had either blacks or women in mind as eligible either.

This statement appears to be correct. However, the part about blacks and women has been amended. The part about the Natural Born Citizen requirement has not.
 
At first I thought MarAzul and Trump's argument about "Natural Born" was nonsense.

But after looking into it, there's an actual legit constitutional question.

http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2016/01/explaining-the-natural-born-presidency-controversy/

There's barfo wannabe constitutional scholar, and there's Lawrence Tribe. I go with Tribe's interpretation.

I agree with this take.

Here is a copy of the message I sent to Trump in 2011.

To:

Donald Trump,

Congratulation! The Birth certificate proved Obama was born in Hawaii. It also proves he is not a Natural Born Citizen
and therefore not fully qualified as required in the Constitution, for the office of President of these United States.

From the Law of Nations

"Citizens and natives.

The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority,
they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country,
of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens,
those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this,
in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society,
reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children;
and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion,
they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country,
it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner,
it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country."


God speed with the next step.

Regards,

MarAzul

You can read this paragraph for yourself in the Law of Nations Book 2.

I suspect that Obama is exactly what this requirement in the Constitution was intended to derail. I often doubt he sees himself as United States citizen.
 
So anyone born via cesarean section can't be president because they weren't natural born.

If your mother took Epidural, you might not be a natural born citizen.
If you were conceived despite the fact that your mother was on the pill, you might not be a natural born citizen.
If your parents needed the help of a fertility clinic...
 
At first I thought MarAzul and Trump's argument about "Natural Born" was nonsense.

But after looking into it, there's an actual legit constitutional question.

Well, it's too bad about your powers of reason, but at least your instincts are good.

Advice: go with your gut.

barfo
 
Well, it's too bad about your powers of reason, but at least your instincts are good.

Advice: go with your gut.

barfo

Barfo can't be president because he was hatched.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top