Trump supporters, what would he have to say before you would not vote for him?

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I'm not posting any of Trump's criticisms of Hiliar. They're obvious enough for me to come up with them on my own.

Syria is Obama's fault. So is ISIS.

If we left 40,000 troops on bases in the desert in Iraq like we should have, there'd be no ISIS and Syria would not have turned into an ISIS stronghold.
Incredible assumption on your part...sounds like Assad gets a free pass for all this...I know some guys who came back from Iraq and not one of them believed we needed to stay there...Obama clearly said our strategy was changing from boots on the ground to a high tech drone military...ISIS would have just chosen Pakistan or Yemen or Mindanao or Jakarta to train terrorists...turns out it was Iraq's neighbor but you act like that's on the US which I totally disagree with.
 
Once seen by the domestic and international community as a potential reformer,[18] Assad disappointed those expectations definitively when he ordered crackdowns and military sieges on Arab Spring protesters, leading to the Syrian Civil War. The Syrian opposition, the United States, Canada, the European Union and the majority of the Arab League had called for al-Assad's resignation from the presidency.[19][20] During the Syrian Civil War, an inquiry by the United Nations human rights chief found evidence to implicate Assad in war crimes and crimes against humanity.[21] Assad was included in a list of 20 sample war crimes indictments of government officials and rebels handed to the International Criminal Court, by David Crane, an American professor at Syracuse University College of Law in New York.[22] In November 2014, the prosecutor of the Special Tribunal for Lebanon announced that evidence would be brought against Assad.[23]
 
In 2015, al-Nusra Front,[211] Al-Qaeda's Syrian affiliate, issued bounty worth millions of dollars for the killing of Assad.[212] The head of the al-Nusra Front, Abu Mohammad al-Julani, said he would pay "three million euros ($3.4 million) for anyone who can kill Bashar al-Assad and end his story".[213] As of 2015[update], Assad's regional main opponents, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, are openly backing the Army of Conquest, an umbrella rebel group that reportedly includes an al-Qaeda linked al-Nusra Front and another Salafi coalition known as Ahrar al-Sham.[214][215][216] In the course of the conflict, ISIS has repeatedly massacred pro-government Alawite civilians and executed captured Syrian Alawite soldiers,[217][218] with most Alawites supporting Bashar al-Assad, himself an Alawite. ISIS, al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra Front and affiliated jihadist groups reportedly took the lead in an offensive on Alawite villages in Latakia Governorate of Syria in August 2013.[217][219] Assad condemned the November 2015 Paris attacks, but added that France's support for Syrian rebel groups had contributed to the spread of terrorism, and rejected sharing intelligence on terrorist threats with French authorities unless France altered its policy.[220][221]

In 2016, Syrian Democratic Forces found paperwork including regime bank statements at a recently captured oil refinery during the Al-Shaddadi offensive (2016) showing that ISIS had sold oil to the Assad regime, with a SDF commander stating; "The regime says that it's fighting terrorists, but it's not really. In fact, it's always maintained economic ties. Bashar Assad controls nothing anymore and he has a massive logistical lead in terms of oil especially so he's bought oil from the jihadists, and in return, he's supplied them with weapons".[222]
 
Incredible assumption on your part...sounds like Assad gets a free pass for all this...I know some guys who came back from Iraq and not one of them believed we needed to stay there...Obama clearly said our strategy was changing from boots on the ground to a high tech drone military...ISIS would have just chosen Pakistan or Yemen or Mindanao or Jakarta to train terrorists...turns out it was Iraq's neighbor but you act like that's on the US which I totally disagree with.

I don't have to like Assad. It's not our country. He had nothing to do with ISIS, in fact he was and is fighting ISIS.

Hindsight is 20-20 but your buddies are clearly wrong as is Obama. The guys who were right were those advising Obama to keep the 40K troops in country - still a 2/3 drawdown.

ISIS wouldn't have chosen anywhere else. It was all but dead. What gave them any hope of rebounding was Obama surrendering in Iraq and the wink and nod he gave al Maliki to crackdown on the Sunni.

Read the PBS link. It has numerous quotes of the Sunni Iraqis explaining how the US ditched them and they felt no choice but to side with ISIS.
 
ISIS wouldn't have chosen anywhere else
Don't buy this idea at all and I tend to listen to vets returning from war about their opinions....Obama won his elections with a promise of bringing the troups home so you wanting to leave them there would have just cost more lives and tax dollars achieving nothing...ISIS comes from everywhere...not just Iraq..Britain has had many ISIS volunteers as has France and yes...even the USA....ISIS is not tied to this one particular region anymore than the IRA was tied to Belfast.
 
What we're seeing are feudalistic warlords scrambling for power. Been happening in Africa for a long, long time....we don't get involved if it's Somalia so much...nobody seems that outraged over those atrocities
 
Don't buy this idea at all and I tend to listen to vets returning from war about their opinions....Obama won his elections with a promise of bringing the troups home so you wanting to leave them there would have just cost more lives and tax dollars achieving nothing...ISIS comes from everywhere...not just Iraq..Britain has had many ISIS volunteers as has France and yes...even the USA....ISIS is not tied to this one particular region anymore than the IRA was tied to Belfast.
I literally think you're grasping at straws. ISIS arose from al Qaeda in Iraq. It was dead and would be still if Obama didn't surrender.

Obama is responsible for tens of thousands, if nut hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths and all the terror ISIS has brought. All for a point or two in the polls. Damn.
 
Assad is absolutely to blame and should be tried in the Hague for war crimes
If he were, Obama would still be the founder of ISIS. I don't see any reason the believe otherwise. Except wishful thinking.
 
What we're seeing are feudalistic warlords scrambling for power. Been happening in Africa for a long, long time....we don't get involved if it's Somalia so much...nobody seems that outraged over those atrocities
We shouldn't have intervened.

We owed Iraqis. Not Syrians or Libyans or anyone else there.
 
I literally think you're grasping at straws. ISIS arose from al Qaeda in Iraq. It was dead and would be still if Obama didn't surrender.

Obama is responsible for tens of thousands, if nut hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths and all the terror ISIS has brought. All for a point or two in the polls. Damn.
You just spar with my point Denny...ISIS is just another name for jihadists and as I stated long ago....it comes from the Gaza conflict and goes back to Arafat..it's basically ancient bloodfeuding and some whacked out Islamic radical militants that are flailing away trying to keep a medieval culture in some semblance of power...they are losing this battle. Now....blame them and stop taking a dysfunctional crisis and making it an election spin against American leaders please...seems you've glossed over Assad's role but would jail American officials for their civil war
 
I'm not posting any of Trump's criticisms of Hiliar. They're obvious enough for me to come up with them on my own.

Really? You came up with MVP of ISIS on your own? Coincidentally, just a day or two after Trump said it?

Interesting.

barfo
 
You just spar with my point Denny...ISIS is just another name for jihadists and as I stated long ago....it comes from the Gaza conflict and goes back to Arafat..it's basically ancient bloodfeuding and some whacked out Islamic radical militants that are flailing away trying to keep a medieval culture in some semblance of power...they are losing this battle. Now....blame them and stop taking a dysfunctional crisis and making it an election spin against American leaders please...seems you've glossed over Assad's role but would jail American officials for their civil war
ISIS is a specific entity. Its precursor was al Qaeda in Iraq, headed by Zarkawi who was killed in 2006. Their objective is a calaphate in the gulf region, not somewhere else.

I said the same things about Obama surrendering since the day he did.

Assad is not all that relevant. He didn't support ISIS. ISIS wants his country's territory.
 
Really? You came up with MVP of ISIS on your own? Coincidentally, just a day or two after Trump said it?

Interesting.

barfo

No. I said I am anti Hiliar's accomplices in the media. They say Trump is wrong, but he's right on this one. The media is exposed as manufacturing claims against Trump. I've posted several articles from before Trump was the nominee, and back then the press sang a very different tune.

Without Obama's surrender and his nod and wink to al Maliki, there would be no ISIS. He really was their MVP.
 
ISIS is a specific entity. Its precursor was al Qaeda in Iraq, headed by Zarkawi who was killed in 2006. Their objective is a calaphate in the gulf region, not somewhere else.

I said the same things about Obama surrendering since the day he did.

Assad is not all that relevant. He didn't support ISIS. ISIS wants his country's territory.
So wrong...Assad had an arms for oil deal with ISIS....then they went and attacked his tribal home..we have not surrendered anywhere in the world under Obama's presidency...for that statement alone..you prove my point...Obama made a mistake but it wasn't by surrender...it was by not taking Assad out..I think there's a limit on how many middle eastern dictators we can remove in a row..
 
So wrong...Assad had an arms for oil deal with ISIS....then they went and attacked his tribal home..we have not surrendered anywhere in the world under Obama's presidency...for that statement alone..you prove my point...Obama made a mistake but it wasn't by surrender...it was by not taking Assad out..I think there's a limit on how many middle eastern dictators we can remove in a row..

Obama surrendered.

He tucked tail and ran.

He was in such a hurry he left a shitload of our weapons and vehicles there. He chose not to fight. It's surrender.

Assad still isn't an ally of ISIS. Desperate people do desperate things.
 
  • Merriam-Webster
    • to agree to stop fighting, hiding, resisting, etc., because you know that you will not win or succeed
 
If Obama took Assad out, ISIS would have ended up controling more of Syria.

SMH
 
Obama surrendered.

He tucked tail and ran.

He was in such a hurry he left a shitload of our weapons and vehicles there. He chose not to fight. It's surrender.

Assad still isn't an ally of ISIS. Desperate people do desperate things.
Assad is no longer an ally of ISIS...he wasn't publicly even when he traded arms to them..we leave military equipment everywhere we go..I've been all over Asia and our military crap is all over the place...that's why they manufacture more and sell them..good for the GNP. To withdraw from that conflict was not a surrender...leaving the stuff behind is common practice. I'm not saying it's right, but it's common...they say in the army it cost more to move them than to just order new ones..
 
You clearly do not understand the terms of surrender in war Denny
 
If Obama took Assad out, ISIS would have ended up controling more of Syria.

SMH
You think they wouldn't install a puppet in his place and train the army? You've missed out on the memo...it's what we do...you give ISIS a lot more credit and power than I do. They are losing recruits by the droves. They are losing....you seem to think they are ahead of this game
 
In Viet Nam, the entire govt of Viet Nam fled.....duh..we were supposed to do what? Help Ho Chi Minh with the transition?
 
You think they wouldn't install a puppet in his place and train the army? You've missed out on the memo...it's what we do...you give ISIS a lot more credit and power than I do. They are losing recruits by the droves. They are losing....you seem to think they are ahead of this game
I don't think Obama has a clue.

There shouldn't be an ISIS or calaphate in the first place.
 
You don't turn over something that's not yours....let's start there

We fought for nearly a decade to gain territory and to hold it. We gave it all up with Obama's surrender.

Not a whole lot different than when Nixon surrendered in Vietnam. Both cases, the enemy came in and took over.
 
I read the article...one thing stood out...Eygpt and Saudi Arabia were angry we didn't topple Assad...my question..why the fuck don't they topple Assad?
Obama drew a line in the sand, and blinked. Remember?

The gist of the article is that Obama made things terribly worse by his actions and his inaction. He hasn't a clue. And he won't listen to his military advisers, who do have a clue.
 

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