Trump supporters, what would he have to say before you would not vote for him?

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surrender for a bump in the polls? good grief.....he's not up for election you know?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Denny is writing an angry letter to the French for not rescuing this lady. Louisiana used to be theirs! Why won't they stay to help?!?

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You display terrible logic.

This has to be one of the stupidest posts I've seen in this forum.
 
Denny Crane said:
We had 60 and 54 die in 2010 and 2011, out of 140,00 troops. We have more than that many die on base in the US due to accident. Thousands, in fact.
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Our military under Obama has been more effective and more streamlined than any in history...we're winning the fight against terrorism ....find a chart that shows how many plots against the US have been stopped before they could happen....record numbers. Our country suffers more from these votes of no confidence than anything....and that's just to see a bump in the polls for the opposition party. Donald Trump is the last guy I want making these decisions.
 
Denny Crane said:
He surrendered in 2011 when he was running for reelection.

D'oh?
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He got my vote...but because he brought troops home, not because he escalated troop involvement. Again...we have never surrendered....you keep beating that dead horse as if we are a fearful nation...that's your fear..not mine
 
riverman said:
Our military under Obama has been more effective and more streamlined than any in history...we're winning the fight against terrorism ....find a chart that shows how many plots against the US have been stopped before they could happen....record numbers. Our country suffers more from these votes of no confidence than anything....and that's just to see a bump in the polls for the opposition party. Donald Trump is the last guy I want making these decisions.
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Russia and its ally, Assad, are winning against ISIS.

How many attacks on US soil after 9/11 and before Obama?

How many since Obama? Please include the ones spun as "workplace violence " by the administration.

You're the one that admits government lies and isn't to be trusted.
 
riverman said:
He got my vote...but because he brought troops home, not because he escalated troop involvement. Again...we have never surrendered....you keep beating that dead horse as if we are a fearful nation...that's your fear..not mine
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He surrendered for a bump in the polls, as I said.

He was against the surge, which worked.

He escalated troop involvement in Afghanistan, a surge of his own, that failed.

He's clueless.
 
Denny Crane said:
Russia and its ally, Assad, are winning against ISIS.

How many attacks on US soil after 9/11 and before Obama?

How many since Obama? Please include the ones spun as "workplace violence " by the administration.

You're the one that admits government lies and isn't to be trusted.
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I'm not afraid of our government...I know what they do...I was a communications specialist for the command station of the 7th fleet...a lot of countries are winning against ISIS....we are winning too. I don't have my list of terrorist killings chronologically or goegraphically organized....that's your job.
 
Denny Crane said:
He surrendered for a bump in the polls, as I said.

He was against the surge, which worked.

He escalated troop involvement in Afghanistan, a surge of his own, that failed.

He's clueless.
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We are better off today than when he took office....but you think I'm clueless too so.....tell me more about the Viet Nam war eh?
 
riverman said:
I'm not afraid of our government...I know what they do...I was a communications specialist for the command station of the 7th fleet...a lot of countries are winning against ISIS....we are winning too. I don't have my list of terrorist killings chronologically or goegraphically organized....that's your job.
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Zero and several. San Bernadino being a recent obvious one.
 
riverman said:
We are better off today than when he took office....but you think I'm clueless too so.....tell me more about the Viet Nam war eh?
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Denny knows everything there is about Viet Nam, he's seen Apocalypse Now... twice.
 
riverman said:
We are better off today than when he took office....but you think I'm clueless too so.....tell me more about the Viet Nam war eh?
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I never said you are clueless. You're only responsibility in ISIS is your vote for the man.

We are not better off than in 2001, 2002...2007.

Obama's economy is the slowest growing one in the past half century.

It's not hard to do little and have the country be better off. That's why we're voting for Gary Johnson!
 
Denny Crane said:
How many attacks on US soil after 9/11 and before Obama?
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Seems sort of cherry-picking. How about we ask: how many deaths from terrorist attacks in the US under President Bush vs. President Obama?

barfo
 
Denny Crane said:
It's not hard to do little and have the country be better off. That's why we're voting for Gary Johnson!
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Gary Johnson isn't on board with your plan for endless war.

barfo
 
If we're going to hand out blame maybe we should start with Sykes-Picot? The troubles afflicting Syria, Iraq and the Levant are very old, but you can trace a lot of the recent (i.e. last 100 years of) trouble to that misbegotten agreement between Britain, France and Russia.

Did Obama fuck it? I don't know, maybe? But people have been "fucking it" for a very, very long time in the region since the fall of the Ottomans. The problems run so deep and the choices are all completely unpalatable with no obvious winning plays to be made -- if you intervene, you're always going to be pissing off one faction or another no matter what you do or which group you back. Leave troops past 2011 and you piss off the Shia. Pull out troops and you give carte blanche for brutal Shia recriminations against the Sunni, which in turn leads to the rise of ISIS and a flood of refugees into Europe.

With respect to Trump and Clinton and how they're going to deal with the region, I'm guessing both of them are probably a disaster waiting to happen (in different, but equally fucked-up ways) and
the back and forth between certain people in this thread underscores just how complicated and intractable the situation really is in this part of the world.

Personally, I see getting out of Iraq and the ensuing sectarian violence that followed as inevitable. You could stay for 50 years and the problem would still be there ready to rear its ugly head the moment you left. The Ottomans knew this, and the British and French eventually figured this out too.
 
Nikolokolus said:
If we're going to hand out blame maybe we should start with Sykes-Picot? The troubles afflicting Syria, Iraq and the Levant are very old, but you can trace a lot of the recent (i.e. last 100 years of) trouble to that misbegotten agreement between Britain, France and Russia.

Did Obama fuck it? I don't know, maybe? But people have been "fucking it" for a very, very long time in the region since the fall of the Ottomans. The problems run so deep and the choices are all completely unpalatable with no obvious winning plays to be made -- if you intervene, you're always going to be pissing off one faction or another no matter what you do or which group you back. Leave troops past 2011 and you piss off the Shia. Pull out troops and you give carte blanche for brutal Shia recriminations against the Sunni, which in turn leads to the rise of ISIS and a flood of refugees into Europe.

With respect to Trump and Clinton and how they're going to deal with the region, I'm guessing both of them are probably a disaster waiting to happen (in different, but equally fucked-up ways) and
the back and forth between certain people in this thread underscores just how complicated and intractable the situation really is in this part of the world.

Personally, I see getting out of Iraq and the ensuing sectarian violence that followed as inevitable. You could stay for 50 years and the problem would still be there ready to rear its ugly head the moment you left. The Ottomans knew this, and the British and French eventually figured this out too.
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Yeah, I'd be firmly in the camp of leaving the Middle East to its own perpetual hell if only it weren't for that desire to get nukes and obliterate Israel. I'm afraid it's just a matter of when, not if, we're going to have to deal with that issue. With all due "respect" to Obama's Iran deal, of course.
 
barfo said:
Seems sort of cherry-picking. How about we ask: how many deaths from terrorist attacks in the US under President Bush vs. President Obama?

barfo
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Two different approaches, two different results.

Fight them over there or fight them here.
 
barfo said:
Gary Johnson isn't on board with your plan for endless war.

barfo
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Who said anything about war? Or are you suggesting we're at endless war with N. Korea? Or Germany? Or Japan? Or Italy?

I said we should have left the 40K soldiers there as recommended by our military and the smarter guys who knew what brining all the troops home at that time meant.

We weren't at war for 2 years before Obama surrendered.

US Troop Deployments around the world:

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Nikolokolus said:
If we're going to hand out blame maybe we should start with Sykes-Picot? The troubles afflicting Syria, Iraq and the Levant are very old, but you can trace a lot of the recent (i.e. last 100 years of) trouble to that misbegotten agreement between Britain, France and Russia.

Did Obama fuck it? I don't know, maybe? But people have been "fucking it" for a very, very long time in the region since the fall of the Ottomans. The problems run so deep and the choices are all completely unpalatable with no obvious winning plays to be made -- if you intervene, you're always going to be pissing off one faction or another no matter what you do or which group you back. Leave troops past 2011 and you piss off the Shia. Pull out troops and you give carte blanche for brutal Shia recriminations against the Sunni, which in turn leads to the rise of ISIS and a flood of refugees into Europe.

With respect to Trump and Clinton and how they're going to deal with the region, I'm guessing both of them are probably a disaster waiting to happen (in different, but equally fucked-up ways) and
the back and forth between certain people in this thread underscores just how complicated and intractable the situation really is in this part of the world.

Personally, I see getting out of Iraq and the ensuing sectarian violence that followed as inevitable. You could stay for 50 years and the problem would still be there ready to rear its ugly head the moment you left. The Ottomans knew this, and the British and French eventually figured this out too.
Click to expand...

All good. We haven't left Korea. Or Germany. Or Italy. Etc.

The only flaw in this thinking is that we would leave, or that we'd leave before the people were happy with one another (could take generations).
 
Denny Crane said:
Who said anything about war? Or are you suggesting we're at endless war with N. Korea? Or Germany? Or Japan? Or Italy?

I said we should have left the 40K soldiers there as recommended by our military and the smarter guys who knew what brining all the troops home at that time meant.

We weren't at war for 2 years before Obama surrendered.

US Troop Deployments around the world:

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I respect our military but to say they are smarter guys.....well, we don't know that. One of them was dumb enough to join the Trump ticket. You can say what you want Denny....but I say...get every foot soldier out of that region as fast as you can....I know a couple of marines who wanted to go back but not for the purpose of saving the middle east...combat action pay and debts at home were their reasons. Actually we are sort of in a cold war with N. Korea...
 
What I see us doing in the future is focusing on our Navy and Air Force and special forces units and have foot soldiers home protecting the country and instead of building border walls....put army or marine bases on our borders. Basically change them from regular army or marines to reserves..call them up when needed. There's no reason we don't have a crack Coast Guard and Border Patrol staffed by the military. Money better spent. Use them against cartel gangsters and homegrown terrorists and to help in case of natural disasters. Take the military budget saved by reducing ground troops overseas and spend it on infrastructure jobs for all the servicemen and women to have when they get home.
 
Denny Crane said:
All good. We haven't left Korea. Or Germany. Or Italy. Etc.

The only flaw in this thinking is that we would leave, or that we'd leave before the people were happy with one another (could take generations).
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Different circumstances. We stayed in Korea because the South Koreans didn't demand we leave. In the post WWII era, there was a very real threat of an expansionist Soviet Union steam-rolling Western Europe and West Germany needed us.

In Iraq you're never going to be able to quiet these blood fueds that go all the way back to the death of Muhammad -- They didn't go away under 600 years of Ottoman rule they just bubble back up whenever there is any kind of power vacuum.
 
Some countries love those greenbacks the military spend overseas...especially places like Japan, Germany and S Korea..port towns thrive when the Navy shows up..my house in Taiwan was a few blocks from the eastern port...when ships docked they loved the Americans...pubs made a ton of money and restaurants...when the Russian sailors would dock....they were poorer than the locals and would just walk around the parks smoking bad tobacco. There's a whole economy based on port towns...we leave, a lot of them dry up. That transition will sting until they adapt.
 
We should only invade and occupy countries that the average American would like to visit.

I support the war against Fiji!

and Canada.
 
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