Trying to rationalize what's going on

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Wizard Mentor said:
OK, I'll explain because the OP might actually listen.

The traditionally best way to build a team that wins 50+ games a year is to have a team that wins 35 in a year first, especially with young players player hard, and yes, sometimes even sacrificing for the team.

The lotto has been around a long time now, but it is a recent phenomena that people think a team can go from 20 wins to 55 wins right away.

We now have a rarely in the history of the NBA - a young team that can play solid defense. I find that exciting. Teaching that team to lose is not obviously a good idea.
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Sure, and we probably have the horses to get to that 7th or 8th in the west tier, but we don't have a star to propel us to the top echelon. That's the problem.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The problem with the Dame teams was that we couldn't get a second All-Star.

Now we don't have a single All-Star. All Stars are much more difficult to come up with than the rest of the team.

We are far worse off than when we had Dame.
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We have 4 players with legitimate All Star potential that is being realized day to day right now. I think we are much better off than when we had Dame.
 
It should be noted Dame has a 2 time MVP, Finals MVP teammate now and his team is 5th in the East. Dame is a flawed player.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I disagree with your disagreement.

Who on this team is a top 10 caliber player?
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he just said there are 4 Blazers with "legitimate" all-star potential. In another thread he wondered if Bol Bol was as good as Wemby. Do you really expect to get a rational answer out of him when he's in this loopy troll-mode?
 
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wizenheimer said:
he just said there are 4 Blazers with "legitimate" all-star potential. Do you really expect to get a rational answer out of him when he's in this loopy troll-mode?
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Well, All-Star is such a vague title. Plenty of players have been All-Stars who simply weren't an All-NBA caliber player. Someone like Kyle Korver. Very good role player. Not a star. I could see Scoot, Shaedon, Deni or even Ayton getting an All-Star nod if we were winning a lot. Doesn't mean they're a cornerstone.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Well, All-Star is such a vague title. Plenty of players have been All-Stars who simply weren't an All-NBA caliber player. Someone like Kyle Korver. Very good role player. Not a star. I could see Scoot, Shaedon, Deni or even Ayton getting an All-Star nod if we were winning a lot. Doesn't mean they're a cornerstone.
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I paid attention to the word "legitimate"...that's not a vague term
 
wizenheimer said:
I paid attention to the word "legitimate"...that's not a vague term
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That's true. I could still see Scoot, Shae or Deni getting a legit All-Star nod at some point. But.... still..... not necessarily a cornerstone.
 
Natebishop3 said:
That's true. I could still see Scoot, Shae or Deni getting a legit All-Star nod at some point. But.... still..... not necessarily a cornerstone.
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Toumani? He’s becoming our best player this year and it’s only his 2nd year.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Toumani is a role player. I highly doubt it. His scoring would have to take a major jump.
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You’re not paying attention. His offense is coming along. Look at Jimmy Butler’s offense early in his career. 8 ppg in his 2nd season. Look at Kawhi. 11 ppg in his 2nd season. Camara averaging 10 ppg in his 2nd season and trending up. He recently had a 20/10/6 game. The flashes are there.
 
KingSpeed said:
You’re not paying attention. His offense is coming along. Look at Jimmy Butler’s offense early in his career. 8 ppg in his 2nd season. Look at Kawhi. 11 ppg in his 2nd season. Camara averaging 10 ppg in his 2nd season and trending up. He recently had a 20/10/6 game. The flashes are there.
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Jimmy Butler was 23 in his second season.

Kawhi was only 21 in his second season.

Not the same thing.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Sure, and we probably have the horses to get to that 7th or 8th in the west tier, but we don't have a star to propel us to the top echelon. That's the problem.
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If we get to the finals, the masses will call whoever is our best player, a superstar.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I have been sitting here trying to understand what the hell we're doing playing Simons and Grant.

In a game against a team that is also trying to rebuild, and who did not play basically any of their veterans, we played our veterans 38 and 37 minutes so that we could barely beat them by 2.

We aren't good enough to make the playin.

We aren't bad enough to get a top 5 pick.

What are we doing? How do we rationalize this? The whole point of trading Dame was to reset the franchise. Was this really what we were resetting for? A team that's not good enough to get the 8th seed? A team without a cornerstone player?

So I have been noodling on it and this is the best I can come up with:

Option 1: Billups is doing whatever the fuck he wants. He needs to pad his resume for when his contract runs out. I don't think the Blazers are bringing him back. He's pulling a Art Howe from Money Ball. He's playing the roster in a way that he can explain in job interviews. He could tell Joe to fire him if he wants him to play the roster differently and now the Blazers can't even really fire him because he had that win streak. Best case he somehow pushes us into the playin, which looks really good. Worst case we still suck and get a lottery pick. Doesn't hurt him either way.

Option 2: Cronin has learned that Simons and Grant aren't worth anywhere near what he wants, so he's telling Billups to play them so that they can hopefully boost their value for the offseason. I think he HAS to know at this point that we can't have Scoot coming off the bench next season. It would be flat out moronic. This season is his last chance to boost their value. Simons has a contract coming up soon and Grant is only getting older and more overpaid .This summer is the deadline of deadlines.

Option 3: Cronin doesn't care about the draft and is planning on putting together a package for a "star" this offseason, packaging our pick from 2025 with a 2029 pick, Sharpe and filler. Maybe he figures we have the pieces to put around a star, we're just missing the star and the best way to get that is a trade.

Option 4: The team doesn't give a shit and is just treading water until they can sell.

Those are the four scenarios I can come up with. Otherwise it just doesn't make any sense at all to me.
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Option 3 is out of the question. Big stars don’t come to Portland.
 
KingSpeed said:
Dame’s ability to deliver in playoffs was limited. Sure he won a couple first rounds on big shots. CJ bailed him out in 2nd round vs Denver. He got destroyed by Jrue in 2018. And in 2016 2nd round, we lost first two games to GS playing without Curry. We are much better equipped to win now long term because of our defense.
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We don't have a Dame. We are not good. It's funny, you bag on all our old teams, and I'm bagging on the current ones. Yet the ones you bag on have all made playoffs. Huh. Weird, isn't it?
 
Mediocre Man said:
The answer is an easy one if you understand or accept that the Blazers are dysfunctional.

Jody wants to make money

Bert, who is pseudo owner, has an ego and wants to win

Joe and Mike wanted to let it bake one more year

The Conductor wants to win for his resume

The team wants to win

So you have a skull, for my entertainment we will call it a coxless quad.

You have Jody at the helm not calling any direction to anyone

Bert, The Conductor and the team rowing hard with both oars

The front office is rowing in a way that the coxless quad is going in circles
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Yeah I believe this is spot on. There are so many actions this team does that while fine in isolation make zero sense together.

We're basically writing the book of how not to run an NBA franchise.
 
KingSpeed said:
It should be noted Dame has a 2 time MVP, Finals MVP teammate now and his team is 5th in the East. Dame is a flawed player.
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Blazers were super excited to be 5th place with Dame. Now you're saying it like it's a bad thing.

That's the difference.
 
wizenheimer said:
Maybe don't use your anti-Dame bias as a foundation for a conclusion that doesn't fit the numbers

Portland was outscored by 329 points that season. In the last 12 games that Dame missed, the Blazers were outscored by 242 points. In the first 12 games that Dame missed, Portland was outscored by 49 points. In other words, in the 24 games Dame missed the Blazers were outscored by 291 points. In the 58 games that Dame played, Portland was outscored by 38 points. That means that Portland's average point differential with Dame was -0.66 points. The point differential without Dame was -12.13. Looks a lot different than the way you tried to portray it, doesn't it?
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Sure does
 
Phatguysrule said:
Blazers were super excited to be 5th place with Dame. Now you're saying it like it's a bad thing.

That's the difference.
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No. We, well some, were excited to be 3 seed with Dame and no All Star teammate. If we traded for Giannis and barely had the 5 seed, I don’t think people would’ve been super excited. It would’ve been a major letdown. Some people bitched when we were 3 seed. Otherwise, why did everyone want to fire Stotts?
 
Strenuus said:
We don't have a Dame. We are not good. It's funny, you bag on all our old teams, and I'm bagging on the current ones. Yet the ones you bag on have all made playoffs. Huh. Weird, isn't it?
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I think what we are building now has more potential than the Dame teams. I mean, if the Dame teams were so great, why did you want to fire Stotts?
 
Now this is what I call stuck in no man's land. Absolute "Mediocrity".
 
KingSpeed said:
No. We, well some, were excited to be 3 seed with Dame and no All Star teammate. If we traded for Giannis and barely had the 5 seed, I don’t think people would’ve been super excited. It would’ve been a major letdown. Some people bitched when we were 3 seed. Otherwise, why did everyone want to fire Stotts?
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Lol. I was there. People were excited. Rightfully so.
 
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