Two Muslims pulled off plane due to passengers feeling "uncomfortable"

[TradeNurkicNow]

Way to be, Tennessee.

Maybe I should have complained that I was uncomfortable with the dude reading the book of Mormon on my last flight from Hawaii to Portland and got his ass kicked off the flight.

(CNN) -- An airline is investigating the removal of two imams from a flight headed to North Carolina, ostensibly because passengers felt uncomfortable with their presence of the pair -- both clad in Islamic attire.
The incident occurred Friday on an Atlantic Southeast Airlines flight from Tennessee to North Carolina and it involved Masudur Rahman and Mohamed Zaghloul were wearing traditional Muslim dress, CNN affiliate WCNC reported.
The two -- who hold high religious positions in the Muslim community -- were headed to North Carolina for a conference on prejudice against Muslims, or Islamaphobia. The meeting is sponsored by the North American Imams Federation.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/05/07/muslims.kicked.off.plane/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[Minstrel]

Hopefully, the people responsible for actually taking them off the plane are fired. Abusing your power based on the feelings of bigots = fireable offense.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Way to be, Tennessee.

Maybe I should have complained that I was uncomfortable with the dude reading the book of Mormon on my last flight from Hawaii to Portland and got his ass kicked off the flight.



http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/05/07/muslims.kicked.off.plane/index.html?hpt=T2

If being a bigoted assclown is for you, try it next time!

Though more to the point, try reading a Bible aloud in China. These guys just got kicked off a plane.

 

[Minstrel]

Though more to the point, try reading a Bible aloud in China. These guys just got kicked off a plane.

We should always model ourselves, in war, after what terrorists do to enemy combatants and, in social issues, what China does!

 

[Denny Crane]

They were surely sufficiently groped beforehand, so I don't see why anyone has anything to fear. That's my view.

However, how do you protect the airlines from loss of revenue if they're forced to allow anyone on board and the majority of their customers won't fly?

 

[Minstrel]

However, how do you protect the airlines from loss of revenue if they're forced to allow anyone on board and the majority of their customers won't fly?

How were restaurant owners protected when segregation was lifted and a majority of white people no longer wanted to eat in restaurants because black people were there?

The answer is: That never happened, because forgoing restaurants (and stores, etc) for the rest of one's life isn't really an option, and neither is not flying for the rest of one's life for most travelers today. Bigotry doesn't tend to prevent people from doing these things.

 

[Denny Crane]

How were restaurant owners protected when segregation was lifted and a majority of white people no longer wanted to eat in restaurants because black people were there?

I'm sure a lot of them went out of business.

 

[maxiep]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703992704576305412360432744.html

It's what happens when people don't speak up against extremist elements within their own religion.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm sure a lot of them went out of business.

I'm sure that's nonsense.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm sure that's nonsense.

Prove it is.

And I'm sure it hurt black businesses, too.

 

[RR7]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703992704576305412360432744.html

It's what happens when people don't speak up against extremist elements within their own religion.

Or, it's what happens when the people who speak out against it are generally ignored.

 

[Minstrel]

Prove it is.

You're the one who said that you were "sure" that ending segregation led to lots of restaurants closing. If you had proven that, that would be the end of it. As it stands, that doesn't seem logically credible, so that's where my surety comes in. Requesting negative proof (that lots of businesses DIDN'T close) is pretty silly, even for you.

 

[maxiep]

Or, it's what happens when the people who speak out against it are generally ignored.

If it were more than a few people speaking out about it, perhaps they wouldn't be ignored. Note the pro-Bin Laden protests around the world. Meanwhile, where are the thanks to the US from imams and governments of muslim countries? Crickets.

The sad truth is, most imams and governments in muslim countries are afraid that their populace agrees with someone poking the eye of the West.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703992704576305412360432744.html

It's what happens when people don't speak up against extremist elements within their own religion.

Right, because doing so would make those extremist elements magically disappear, and then ignorant Americans would become more tolerant in a flash!

In regards to the article you posted: publicly reinterpreting the relevant Qur'anic verses that violent extremists cite in order to attempt some order of legitimacy will not make those extremists magically vanish. There are plenty of other verses in the Qur'an besides what Manji talked about that extremists cite for their cause. And there are tons more that dispute what the extremists do. Bottom line: it doesn't matter. Publicly denouncing won't make any difference.

I've said it again and I'll say it again: Islamic terrorism is entirely rooted in class and power struggle. As long as each Middle Eastern country is ruled by despots who ignore the poor ranks of their population, groups like al-Qaida will have fresh bodies who are willing to blow themselves up. The majority of kids who join extremists groups aren't going to think twice about which Qur'anic verse justifies what he or she is about to do.

And all of this has nothing to do with common Americans getting all their feelers in a tissy because some brown people on their plane are wearing funny clothes. As long as shit is blowing up, talk won't matter. 99% of Muslims could hold hands in solidarity against Islamic extremism, but that 1% will blow some shit up. the headline the next day? Muslims blow some shit up. And the day after that, some more people get pulled off a plane.

 

[Denny Crane]

You're the one who said that you were "sure" that ending segregation led to lots of restaurants closing. If you had proven that, that would be the end of it. As it stands, that doesn't seem logically credible, so that's where my surety comes in. Requesting negative proof (that lots of businesses DIDN'T close) is pretty silly, even for you.

The state of public schools in inner cities is a pretty good indication of the economic effect.

 

[RR7]

which has......what to do with closed restaurants?

 

[Minstrel]

The state of public schools in inner cities is a pretty good indication of the economic effect.

It really isn't since there were always restaurants for black people, they were just located in the inner city, in urban areas. What changed is that the "whites only" restaurants, which were largely not located in the inner city, had to start allowing black people. And nothing I've ever read suggests they got driven out of business because white customers had to be in the same building with black people, nor does it make any logical sense that they would.

 

[maxiep]

Right, because doing so would make those extremist elements magically disappear, and then ignorant Americans would become more tolerant in a flash!

In regards to the article you posted: publicly reinterpreting the relevant Qur'anic verses that violent extremists cite in order to attempt some order of legitimacy will not make those extremists magically vanish. There are plenty of other verses in the Qur'an besides what Manji talked about that extremists cite for their cause. And there are tons more that dispute what the extremists do. Bottom line: it doesn't matter. Publicly denouncing won't make any difference.

I've said it again and I'll say it again: Islamic terrorism is entirely rooted in class and power struggle. As long as each Middle Eastern country is ruled by despots who ignore the poor ranks of their population, groups like al-Qaida will have fresh bodies who are willing to blow themselves up. The majority of kids who join extremists groups aren't going to think twice about which Qur'anic verse justifies what he or she is about to do.

And all of this has nothing to do with common Americans getting all their feelers in a tissy because some brown people on their plane are wearing funny clothes. As long as shit is blowing up, talk won't matter. 99% of Muslims could hold hands in solidarity against Islamic extremism, but that 1% will blow some shit up. the headline the next day? Muslims blow some shit up. And the day after that, some more people get pulled off a plane.

We've been through this before, and we disagree. The "peaceful" religion of Islam has a cancer, and it's unwilling to undergo chemotherapy. Until then, Muslims are going to face bigotry.

 

[Denny Crane]

It really isn't since there were always restaurants for black people, they were just located in the inner city, in urban areas. What changed is that the "whites only" restaurants, which were largely not located in the inner city, had to start allowing black people. And nothing I've ever read suggests they got driven out of business because white customers had to be in the same building with black people, nor does it make any logical sense that they would.

A lot of the black businesses you describe ultimately are gone now. Most of the economic data is suspect because businesses and government want to put a good face ono things, regardless of how they truly are.

S.H. Kress and Co. was a southern based (hundreds of stores) store chain with lunch counters that went out of business at the time of the Civil Rights Act.

I don't believe in segregation or that it was a good thing. It would seem that the ideal environment for business would be to have everyone as your customer, not some subset. But the economics aren't that simple.

 

[Minstrel]

A lot of the black businesses you describe ultimately are gone now.

A lot of businesses are gone now. Businesses come and go in 50-60 years. But you were talking about businesses that were forced to "integrate" going out of business...like airlines allowing Muslims to fly and therefore going out of business. I tend to doubt any "whites only" businesses went out of business because they were forced to integrate.

 

[Denny Crane]

A lot of businesses are gone now. Businesses come and go in 50-60 years. But you were talking about businesses that were forced to "integrate" going out of business...like airlines allowing Muslims to fly and therefore going out of business. I tend to doubt any "whites only" businesses went out of business because they were forced to integrate.

I gave you a rather large example of an entire 5 and 10 cent store chain.

I gave you the example of inner city schools.

I lived in Chicago during the 1960s, on the South Side. During those years, there was a huge migration of blacks from the southern states to places like where I lived. For whatever reason, the area was decimated economically, and downtown turned into a ghost town of sorts. Surely those businesses thrived.

In no way am I blaming the black people that moved there, but the white people who fled to the suburbs and the racist democratic party machine that discriminated against black people and their enterprise and housing opportunities at the very least.

Downtown may well have had a renaissance in the decades since, but the immediate impact is appropriate to this argument.

Like I said, the economics of things aren't so simple. Most of the airlines stocks are near or below $10, oil prices are sky high, and regulating more profit out of them makes no sense.

 

[Minstrel]

I gave you a rather large example of an entire 5 and 10 cent store chain.

A chain went out of business therefore integration caused restaurants to close.

I gave you the example of inner city schools.

Inner city schools were bad before integration and then bad after, so clearly restaurant owners were driven out of business by integration.

Man, when you go to prove a case, you don't mess around.

I lived in Chicago during the 1960s, on the South Side. During those years, there was a huge migration of blacks from the southern states to places like where I lived. For whatever reason, the area was decimated economically, and downtown turned into a ghost town of sorts. Surely those businesses thrived.

In no way am I blaming the black people that moved there, but the white people who fled to the suburbs and the racist democratic party machine that discriminated against black people and their enterprise and housing opportunities at the very least.

Downtown may well have had a renaissance in the decades since, but the immediate impact is appropriate to this argument.

It really isn't, if what you're arguing is that integration caused white flight which had indirect economic effects on businesses in the area. My point was that people didn't stop going to restaurants because black people were now allowed in. Similarly, people aren't going to stop flying because Muslims are allowed on planes.

Most of the airlines stocks are near or below $10, oil prices are sky high, and regulating more profit out of them makes no sense.

"I have no real evidence that allowing Muslims to fly will hurt airlines economically. But because I think it might, government shouldn't prevent airlines from practicing discrimination."

I actually never said that government should do that, but since you seem to want to discuss the issue, I do think government should legislate against such prejudice.

 

[barfo]

I gave you a rather large example of an entire 5 and 10 cent store chain.

According to wikipedia, Kress went out of business in 1980.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

According to wikipedia, Kress went out of business in 1980.

barfo

According to WikiPedia, Kress was acquired in 1964 and all its stores moved to suburban malls.

 

[Natebishop3]

Extremely large lawsuit inc!

Seriously though, I think this was pretty fucked up and I don't see how anyone could justify it. The men did nothing wrong, so I don't see how the airline is going to get away with it.

Shit, I wish I had known saying someone makes me uncomfortable gets them thrown off or out of an establishment. Half the people in my classes that annoy me would be gone from PSU!

 

[barfo]

According to WikiPedia, Kress was acquired in 1964 and all its stores moved to suburban malls.

Yeah, so? So the new owners decided on a new business strategy. Happens every day.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Prove it is.

And I'm sure it hurt black businesses, too.

Hard to prove a negative.

This could all be solved by yet another security checkpoint. One for IQ.

 

[MARIS61]

According to WikiPedia, Kress was acquired in 1964 and all its stores moved to suburban malls.

Lasted another 17 years under the new, less racist management.

F. W. Woolworth Company had the same racist lunch counters, including a very infamous one:

Greensboro sit-in

On February 1, 1960, four black students sat down at a segregated lunch counter in a Greensboro, North Carolina, Woolworth's store. They were refused service, touching off six months of sit-ins and economic boycotts that became a landmark event in the U.S. civil-rights movement. In 1993, an eight-foot section of the lunch counter was moved to the Smithsonian Institution and the store site now contains a civil rights museum, which had its grand opening on Monday, February 1, 2010, the 50th anniversary of the beginning of the sit-ins.


After a few years of violent stupidity, public demand for racist lunch counters ebbed and by Woolworth’s 100th anniversary in 1979, it had become the largest department store chain in the world, according to the Guinness Book of World Records. After Wal-Mart eventually bought all of it's Canadian stores, it diversified several times and is now in the form of Foot Locker, Inc..

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

We've been through this before, and we disagree. The "peaceful" religion of Islam has a cancer, and it's unwilling to undergo chemotherapy. Until then, Muslims are going to face bigotry.

And we'll keep going through this until you start thinking up some potential solutions to this problem you've apparently got figured out. For someone that pegs my knowledge of the situation as idealistic, you are extremely vague as to what could and should actually be done.

 

[Klinky]

If your business plan relies on bigots, then it's time for a new business plan.