Two way contracts

[Scalma]

Yep, what's the point of signing guys to 2-way contracts in July/August? Why tie up those spots now? Keep them open, wait for someone worthwhile to become available, and then pounce.

If Neil would have used up both 2-way slots last July/August, we would have not been able to sign Wade Baldwin in October. Unless there is someone out there that blows your socks off, it makes sense to wait.

Plus, waiting gives the nattering nabobs one more thing to bitch and whine about. OMG, it's August 1st and we don't know who our 17th man is!!!! Fire Olshey NOW!!!

BNM

Does Neil pay you per post, or is there a quota?

 

[Scalma]

So smart guy, should Neil have tied up our two 2-way contracts by August 1st last year and missed out on Wade Baldwin in October? Is that your master plan? Tie up our 16th and 17th roster spots by August 1st and potentially miss out on much better talent a few months from now when other teams are trimming their rosters of actual NBA level talent?

I know you like to shit all over Olshey every chance you get, but this is one area where he has proven he actually knows more than you do.

BNM

Doesn’t matter if he knows more than me or not, I’m not his competition. His actual competition has left him behind.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Does Neil pay you per post, or is there a quota?

Way to side step the actual question: Do you actually think we would be better off tying up our 2-way slots than waiting to see what becomes available in October when teams need to make their final roster cuts? Last year Neil waited and it worked out pretty damn good, didn't it? It's OK, when Neil actually does something right, it's ok to admit it.

Waiting seems like the far smarter approach.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Doesn’t matter if he knows more than me or not, I’m not his competition. His actual competition has left him behind.

Really, you mean the competition that shot their load too soon and missed out on Wade Baldwin last year. That competition??? I'd say Neil won that one.

Here's last years list of 2-way players. Feel free to show me one player on that list you'd rather have than Wade Baldwin.

Yep, if it was a competition, Neil won that round. By waiting until October, he was able to sign the 17th pick from the 2016 draft to a 2-way contract.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

Really, you mean the competition that shot their load too soon and missed out on Wade Baldwin last year. That competition??? I'd say Neil won that one.

Here's last years list of 2-way players. Feel free to show me one player on that list you'd rather have than Wade Baldwin.

Yep, if it was a competition, Neil won that round. By waiting until October, he was able to sign the 17th pick from the 2016 draft to a 2-way contract.

BNM

Why don’t YOU find me someone on a current roster that A) qualifies for a two way B) is on a full roster and C) has either a minimal, or non guaranteed contract. Good luck. Here, I’ll give you a head start. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/ATL.html

So while it’s convenient to keep throwing Baldwin’s name out there, he’s definitely looking more like the exception rather than the rule. Because if your theory were true, all the other teams would “wait” as well.

And I listed some of the guys that are currently available. Doesn’t mean I necessarily want them to fill both spots right this second. But the opportunity to get them is there, so maybe be proactive. Or sit around and pray another Baldwin falls out of the sky. It’s tough.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Why don’t YOU find me someone on a current roster that A) qualifies for a two way B) is on a full roster and C) has either a minimal, or non guaranteed contract. Good luck. Here, I’ll give you a head start. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/ATL.html

Looks to me like the Kings have 16 guaranteed contracts. Their 3 cheapest contracts are Frank Mason, Skal Labissiere, and Deyonta Davis. Any one of those three would be a decent pickup.

Of course, if I were them I'd keep all my youngsters and drop an expensive expiring like Randolph or Shumpert, but you never know...

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Why don’t YOU find me someone on a current roster that A) qualifies for a two way B) is on a full roster and C) has either a minimal, or non guaranteed contract. Good luck. Here, I’ll give you a head start. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/ATL.html

So while it’s convenient to keep throwing Baldwin’s name out there, he’s definitely looking more like the exception rather than the rule. Because if your theory were true, all the other teams would “wait” as well.

And I listed some of the guys that are currently available. Doesn’t mean I necessarily want them to fill both spots right this second. But the opportunity to get them is there, so maybe be proactive. Or sit around and pray another Baldwin falls out of the sky. It’s tough.

The reality is that almost none of those guys do much for there teams. So while yeah it is important to try to find guys for 2 way contracts, it’s not exactly like it matters if he uses them now or later. They will get used eventually...

 

[Boob-No-More]

Why don’t YOU find me someone on a current roster that A) qualifies for a two way B) is on a full roster and C) has either a minimal, or non guaranteed contract. Good luck. Here, I’ll give you a head start. https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/ATL.html

So while it’s convenient to keep throwing Baldwin’s name out there, he’s definitely looking more like the exception rather than the rule. Because if your theory were true, all the other teams would “wait” as well.

And I listed some of the guys that are currently available. Doesn’t mean I necessarily want them to fill both spots right this second. But the opportunity to get them is there, so maybe be proactive. Or sit around and pray another Baldwin falls out of the sky. It’s tough.

The reason Baldwin is the exception is because so many other GMs foolishly lock up their two 2-way contracts in July and August. Plus, we only have 1-year of data to study. You can't really establish any trends based on 1-year's worth of data. If you could, you'd have to conclude that you end up getting the best player by waiting.

I'm not going to waste my time going through every team's current roster looking for possible 2-way opportunities. Things will change between now and mid-October (last year, two of the summer's biggest trades happened after August 1). It's pointless to speculate on August 1 who may, or may not, be available two and a half months from now. I seriously doubt anyone would have predicted last August 1 that Baldwin would be available come mid-October.

Like I said, unless someone out there absolutely blows your socks off, it makes sense to wait to see if someone worthwhile becomes available. It just seems silly to be complaining that we haven't filled our 16th and 17th roster spots by August 1.

BNM

 

[tester551]

Yeah boy, just look at all that top shelf talent we've missed out on.

I'd much rather Neil wait for someone to cut loose the next Wade Baldwin than sign someone who has no chance of making an NBA roster anytime soon. There will be better talent available in October, when the final roster cuts happen, than there was in July.

BNM

I generally agree with you here, but there are some good players who have a lot of potential that we have missed out on...
- Motley
- Watanbe

 

[Scalma]

I generally agree with you here, but there are some good players who have a lot of potential that we have missed out on...
- Motley
- Watanbe

Motley yikes. Was Baldwin’s teammate in the g league, and no joke was one of the most selfish players I’ve ever seen. Admittedly haven’t seen him anywhere else though.

 

[tester551]

So smart guy, should Neil have tied up our two 2-way contracts by August 1st last year and missed out on Wade Baldwin in October? Is that your master plan? Tie up our 16th and 17th roster spots by August 1st and potentially miss out on much better talent a few months from now when other teams are trimming their rosters of actual NBA level talent?

I know you like to shit all over Olshey every chance you get, but this is one area where he has proven he actually knows more than you do.

BNM

In all fairness, Portland could cut the 2-way player at any time. We could sign someone right now & still pounce on someone better if they become available in October.

Granted, there are some potential 'perception' issues with agents - but there's also very little downside for not having at least 1 player signed to a 2-way contract.

 

[tester551]

Really, you mean the competition that shot their load too soon and missed out on Wade Baldwin last year. That competition??? I'd say Neil won that one.

Here's last years list of 2-way players. Feel free to show me one player on that list you'd rather have than Wade Baldwin.

Yep, if it was a competition, Neil won that round. By waiting until October, he was able to sign the 17th pick from the 2016 draft to a 2-way contract.

BNM

Not sure about "more than Bladwin", but these guys are at least in the discussion with Baldwin. Definitely more than Wilcox....

- Bird (Boston - Unavailable due to draft rights)
- Blakeney (Chicago)
- Motley (Dallas)
- Boucher (GSW)
- Simmons (Memphis)
- Niang (Utah)

 

[jlprk]

I know you like to shit all over Olshey every chance you get, but this is one area where he has proven he actually knows more than you do.

Why the fuck aren't you shitting all over Olshey every chance you get? Scalma was once on your small-brained side, but converted to anti-Olshey, like so many of us.

Just for that, I'll rep every post he has in this thread. Haven't read it.

 

[tester551]

Looks to me like the Kings have 16 guaranteed contracts. Their 3 cheapest contracts are Frank Mason, Skal Labissiere, and Deyonta Davis. Any one of those three would be a decent pickup.

Of course, if I were them I'd keep all my youngsters and drop an expensive expiring like Randolph or Shumpert, but you never know...

For fun, I went through the list. Here are the teams with >15 contracts & potential cuts. There aren't a whole lot of good options there.

Clippers (2 of the following)
- Sam Dekker -> Meh
- Jawun Evans -> Meh
- Thornwell -> Good target

Bucks (2 of the following)
- Maker -> Meh
- Zeller -> Not eligible
- Brogdon -> Maybe?
- Duval - Meh
- DiVincenzo (why hasnt he been signed yet?)

Knicks (1 of the following)
- Kornet -> Meh
- Dotson -> Maybe?

Suns (1 of the following)
- Chriss -> Meh
- Harrison -> Meh
- Gary Trent Jr. -> Assigned to wrong team

Kings (1 of the following)
- Skal -> Maybe?
- Davis -> Meh

Jazz (1 of the following)
- O'Neale -> Maybe?
- Stockton -> Meh

 

[hoopsjock]

Really, you mean the competition that shot their load too soon and missed out on Wade Baldwin last year. That competition??? I'd say Neil won that one.

Here's last years list of 2-way players. Feel free to show me one player on that list you'd rather have than Wade Baldwin.

Yep, if it was a competition, Neil won that round. By waiting until October, he was able to sign the 17th pick from the 2016 draft to a 2-way contract.

BNM

I think Tyrone Wallace is pretty much the only one you could argue for being a better signing than Baldwin if we are talking impact last season. He played 30 games for the Clippers last year and averaged 9.7 points, 3.5 rebounds, and 2.4 assists per game. Baldwin has way more upside though so I'd still take him long term.

One thing to note is that last summer Olshey mentioned that he wasn't sure if he was even going to use the two-way contracts. There are so many different ways you can use them. Some teams that are rebuilding simply want to have 17 guys on their roster to have as much of a chance as possible to find good young players. Some teams use it as a way to "sign" their 2nd round picks. Other teams use it to supplement needs on the roster. Of course since there are two spots you can use one for a player that could help you that season and one as a developmental spot. This is what I think the Blazers did last year. Wilcox was there if they needed shooting help or had a major wing injury and Baldwin was there for potential talent.

This year if I had to guess, Olshey is going to use at least one of the spots (if not both) on a big man to have some depth since we are thin up front. An important thing to note is that it's possible several players aren't willing to sign two-way contracts yet. It's not just guys that get cut from other rosters, you also have to look at guys who still think someone is going to offer them more money than the minimum or a two-way. Maybe some of the Blazers targets are guys that might have to settle for a two-way but aren't willing to concede that they aren't good enough for an actual roster yet.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Why the fuck aren't you shitting all over Olshey every chance you get?

I'm more of an equal opportunity shitter who prefers to look at the big picture.

Turner signing:

Nurk trade:

Just for that, I'll rep every post he has in this thread. Haven't read it.

Or much else in the last four years, since that's when the forum software switched from reps to likes.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Or much else in the last four years, since that's when the forum software switched from reps to likes.

BNM

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Boob-No-More again."

 

[Scalma]

Anyway.

Here’s another name:

Eric Moreland- Didn’t know he was a FA. Guess he was cut recently. Think Nerlens Noel, right down to the limitations offensively. But he’s a big time rebounder and shot blocker, and athletic.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Anyway.

Here’s another name:

Eric Moreland- Didn’t know he was a FA. Guess he was cut recently. Think Nerlens Noel, right down to the limitations offensively. But he’s a big time rebounder and shot blocker, and athletic.

Sounds kind of like Ed Davis, and now I’m sad...

 

[Scalma]

Sounds kind of like Ed Davis, and now I’m sad...

Yeah there are some similarities. Moreland can pass, has good hands, is better in pick and roll, and is a better athlete though. Probably why I compared him more to a Noel. Worth a look.

 

[hoopsjock]

Anyway.

Here’s another name:

Eric Moreland- Didn’t know he was a FA. Guess he was cut recently. Think Nerlens Noel, right down to the limitations offensively. But he’s a big time rebounder and shot blocker, and athletic.

I mean, he's failed to see the court much in Sacramento or Detroit. Since he went to Oregon State a lot of people probably already knew about him. Speaking of Oregon State, Drew Eubanks went undrafted and looked okay in summer league. He should have stayed in school but he might be worth a look.

 

[lawai'a]

pj dozier? i understand we presently have a glut at guard, but things could change.

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

Is CJ Wilcox eligible again for 2-way contract?

 

[Boob-No-More]

I mean, he's failed to see the court much in Sacramento or Detroit. Since he went to Oregon State a lot of people probably already knew about him. Speaking of Oregon State, Drew Eubanks went undrafted and looked okay in summer league. He should have stayed in school but he might be worth a look.

He actually played over 800 minutes for DET last year. He's even less of a scoring threat than Ed, but nearly as good on the boards and twice the shot blocker.

I'm not sure there is a place in a regular rotation for a defensive specialist power forward in today's NBA, where you want shooting from all players/positions. But, we're not talking about a regular rotation guy here (if we are, Morehead is not that guy). We're looking for a 2-way contract, basically as short term insurance in case one of our other bigs goes down. I wouldn't be opposed to signing Morehead to one of our two 2-way contracts for this very reason. I also wouldn't be heartbroken if we passed him by.

Either way, I'd still keep at least one of our 2-way spots open until the final roster cuts in mid-October.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Is CJ Wilcox eligible again for 2-way contract?

Hard to believe it (he's almost 28), but yes he is. Because he sat out all of last season and never suited up for a Blazers game, he only has 3 years of NBA experience.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

G league invitational was Sunday so I have another name. Most guys at this event land a contract somewhere soon after (nba training camp, g league, overseas)

Brandon Sampson. Guard. LSU. Was a top 50 high school recruit. 6’5. 6’9 wingspan. 8’4 standing reach. College numbers weren’t special, but he’s one of those guys where I just go with my gut since it’s more about projection anyway and we’re talking about developmental players. Explosive, fluid athlete. 42 inch vertical. Potential as a shooter. Handles the ball. Flashes defensively. I’d give him a camp invite at least. There’s a lot to work with here.

 

[tester551]

I've brought up Christian Wood as someone we should target several times (maybe not in this thread, but in other locations).

He's off the table now, after agreeing to a contract with the Bucks.

 

[Scalma]

I've brought up Christian Wood as someone we should target several times (maybe not in this thread, but in other locations).

He's off the table now, after agreeing to a contract with the Bucks.

Is he the power forward that was drafted a couple years ago?

I’ve been desperately searching for power forwards/centers we could develop, but haven’t really found anyone yet outside of McCullough.

 

[tester551]

Is he the power forward that was drafted a couple years ago?

I’ve been desperately searching for power forwards/centers we could develop, but haven’t really found anyone yet outside of McCullough.

Yep. All NBA G-League second teamer last year. Made All-Summer league 1st team.

22-yr old from UNLV. Athletic PF with a decent handle and can shoot out to the 3pt line.

His G-League stats are encouraging. I think he had an attitude problem his first year or two out of school, so he hasn't really received a good opportunity yet (kind of like Baldwin in that way).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/w/woodch01d.html

 

[Boob-No-More]

I've brought up Christian Wood as someone we should target several times (maybe not in this thread, but in other locations).

He's off the table now, after agreeing to a contract with the Bucks.

MIL seems to be hoarding big men the way POR is hoarding guards.

Is he really off the table? Is his deal guaranteed, or could he still be cut between now and opening night?

Although they don't give specifics on his contract, this article in the Milwaukee Sentinel implies that Woods' contract is not guaranteed, that its a training camp invite with a chance to make the roster. They mention that Woods, along with Shabazz Muhammad are non-guaranteed contracts:

"He is expected to join the Bucks for training camp with the opportunity to compete for a roster spot, similar to Shabazz Muhammad,"

They also state that MIL currently has 22 players on their roster and will need to cut that to 20 by the start of training camp, and of course, they will need to cut that to 15 plus two 2-ways by mid-October.

MIL obviously needs to cut some of their bigs. Giannis will eat up most of their minutes at the 4, with Ersan Ilyasova getting most of the back up minutes, followed by D.J. Wilson (guaranteed contract) as their 3rd string PF. At center, they have Brook Lopez, John Henson, Thon Maker all on guaranteed deals, plus Tyler Zeller, Brandon McCoy and Woods on non-guaranteed deals.

Since Zeller makes the most and MIL is hard capped, I expect he'll be cut before his deal becomes guaranteed. That leaves Woods and McCoy competing for one (if that) roster spot (possibly a 2-way). With six bigs already guaranteed contract, will MIL commit to carrying a 7th big man. That seems excessive for a 15-man roster. Maybe they cut Zeller and McCoy and offer Woods a 2-way contract.

Of course, Woods could decline their offer, we don't have anything more to offer him but a 2-way contract as well. MIL seems to have the inside track on signing him, but with their glut of guaranteed contracts at the 4 and 5, he'd actually have more of a chance to actually see NBA minutes in POR with our lack of front court depth.

BNM