Politics Ukraine / Russia (3 Viewers)

[ABM]

Probably just cheap oil for China is all. China is quite happy to let everyone tear themselves apart while they sit on the sidelines and watch.

Crazy, crazy times. I'm sorry, I don't trust our current leader's ability to navigate the storm. Conversely, though, ultra scary to think what orange might be doing at this point in time.

 

[illmatic99]

I want ALL of NATO speaking as a united front. As I mentioned, we shall see.

you must have missed biden's speech essentially mimicking Bojo's word for word this morning (who parroted Macron's statements also), but keep your blinders on... i guess.

 

[illmatic99]

Man I hate answers like this. "Paying attention." I have a masters in public policy and a B.A in international studies. I pay attention. That's not the issue.

The issue is, as much as I like Ukraine - I had 2 grandparents that were born there - it is not a country America needs to fight or die for. It is not a NATO country. It is not a strategic resource.

You must have missed the Budapest Memorandum in all your studies.

 

[ABM]

you must have missed biden's speech essentially mimicking Bojo's word for word this morning (who parroted Macron's statements also), but keep your blinders on... i guess.

Blinders? No. Extreme skepticism? Probably.

 

[noknobs]

Man I hate answers like this. "Paying attention." I have a masters in public policy and a B.A in international studies. I pay attention. That's not the issue.

The issue is, as much as I like Ukraine - I had 2 grandparents that were born there - it is not a country America needs to fight or die for. It is not a NATO country. It is not a strategic resource.

Thats a complete misreading of history. The invasion of Poland was a warning shot across the bow, as was the annexation of the Sudatenland. They were never part of German history. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union.

At the end of WWI Germany was defeated and the allies divided up territory that had been part of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Russia into a bunch of new countries, one of which was Poland and another was Czechoslovakia.

Hitler hated these new nations which he thought of as artificial creations of the allies, and which had significant German populations in both. Hitler then used a manufactured concern for their welfare as a pretext to demand territorial concessions. In the Munich Agreement, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain agreed to let Hilter annex Sudetenland, portions of Czechoslovakia with ethnic-German majorities. Chamberlain thought he had averted a massive European war, but it only delayed the conflict and made Hitler more powerful when the war finally came.

This helped convince Hitler that the British/French wouldn't seriously resist further annexations to his east, and correctly calculated that he could conquer Poland before the allies could stop him.

Hitler invaded Poland because he knew Poland wasn't powerful enough and correctly believed that Europe's other military powers wouldn't intervene in time. Once Poland was conquered the western allies felt less pressure to attack Germany quickly. They were also still dealing with memories of World War I, so they hesitated to launch into a second continent-wide war with little apparent strategic purpose. Some in Britain/France still hoped a solution could be found without the loss of millions of lives again. It was only after German tanks streamed into France that they fully accepted what was happening.

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/1/6084029/hitlers-invasion-of-poland-explained

 

[illmatic99]

Reading some of the narrative from so-called Conservatives in Congress is wild. There is more praise and support for Putin than respect for Biden.

I guess that shouldn't be surprising. Most conservative ideals align fairly closely with Putin's agenda.

 

[calvin natt]

Most American thing ever

 

[ABM]

Would you send YOUR son to fight Russians in Kiev? Would you, @ABM?

Hard to say. It's a salient question. That said, we're dealing with a crazed, somewhat unpredictable, "try and stop me" tyrant. It will take a unified effort from the NATO community....and may very well involve troops across the board.

Putin is a murderer. Already witnessing that within the last 24 hours. Why am I so sadly reminded of this clip from Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket?

 

[Natebishop3]

Side note - why do our news people seem unable to correctly pronounce Kiev? It’s not Keeeeeev

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[illmatic99]

Side note - why do our news people seem unable to correctly pronounce Kiev? It’s not Keeeeeev

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Natebishop3]

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[ABM]

Well due time to put Putin on double -secret probation! Time for an, errr....Bluto speech? (potty mouth notwithstanding)

 

[Chris Craig]

Part of me wonders if that's what Putin (conspiring with China?) is actually steering towards.

No.

They don't want nuclear war.

WWIII would be a nuke fest

Putin knows we can't really send in Troops because of what it would it could cause. He is using that.

He wants to keep building back the USSR and gaining power in the east while destabilizing us with a cyber war.

He is picking the path of least resistance and attacking in ways that allow for minimal consequence or that leaves the least avenues for retribution.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[crandc]

How is me being supportive of Ukraine in the moment having any kind of agenda at all? I didn’t even think about how it would annoy you per the usual. Take your gender politics somewhere else.

I am being supportive of Ukraine by acknowledging women as well as men are fighting and dying to defend their country. The ones who deny it have gender politics. I am not going anywhere.

 

[crandc]

Sanctions are not a quick fix. The idea is to raise the cost to Putin. Internationally and among his own people. Not as satisfying as "bomb them back to the Stone Age" or other such posturing. Posturing is easy. Governing is hard.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Natebishop3]

I am being supportive of Ukraine by acknowledging women as well as men are fighting and dying to defend their country. The ones who deny it have gender politics. I am not going anywhere.

I didn’t deny fucking anything. What I said wasn’t meant as a slight to women. It was a show of support for the people fighting and dying in Ukraine. Your ridiculously tainted view of the world where everything has to be taken as some kind of premeditated attack on women is both sad and inappropriate in this thread. Grow up.

 

[Natebishop3]

 

[calvin natt]

I swear to god I’d pay anything to fight this piece of shit. I truly hate him.

 

[noknobs]

Here's an example of how Trump signaled strength and resolve against Russian aggression.

"President Putin says it's not Russia. I don't see any reason why it would be," he replied.

How can Cruz say that with a straight face. It's incredible.

 

[Chris Craig]

I swear to god I’d pay anything to fight this piece of shit. I truly hate him.

He's not worth it

 

[ABM]

Here's an example of how Trump signaled strength and resolve against Russian aggression.

"President Putin says it's not Russia. I don't see any reason why it would be," he replied.

How can Cruz say that with a straight face. It's incredible.

It was Hillary who interfered, man.

 

[calvin natt]

He's not worth it

Right. Then nobody will care when I choke him out.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Chris Craig]

It was Hillary who interfered, man.

Come on enough with Hillary

Trump just praised Putin before he attacked, applauding him for declaring parts of Ukraine independent and walking right in. For saying he is doing it as a peacekeeper. Trump called Putin a genius then said we should do the same with Mexico.

 

[ABM]

Come on enough with Hillary

Trump just praised Putin before he attacked, applauding him for declaring parts of Ukraine independent and walking right in. For saying he is doing it as a peacekeeper. Trump called Putin a genius then said we should do the same with Mexico.

I forgot green font. Sorry.