Politics Ukraine / Russia (12 Viewers)

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'It's a scene from a horror movie': Images emerge of civilians with hands tied behind backs shot in the head and van with 'Children' warning on it riddled with bullets as Boris Johnson slams Putin's 'despicable attacks' on Ukrainians
  • **WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT**
  • The Prime Minister today accused Vladimir Putin and the Russian army of committing war crimes in Ukraine
  • He said they had carried out 'despicable attacks against innocent civilians' in Bucha and Irpin, close to Kyiv
  • Former heavyweight champion boxer Wladimir Klitschko visited Bucha to accuse Putin of 'genocide'
  • His comments come after mass graves filled with civilian corpses were found after Russian troops left the city
  • Russia's defence ministry has denied accusations of Russian troops killing civilians in suburban town of Buch
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Boris Johnson has condemned Russia's despicable attacks' on Ukrainians living in the besieged cities of Bucha and Irpin after a van with 'children' written on it was found riddled with bullet holes

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Associated Press journalists in Bucha saw the bodies of at least nine people in civilian clothes who appeared to have been killed at close range. At least two had their hands tied behind their backs

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Four people, all thought to be civilians, were found dead under a blanket on the side of a highway close to Bucha, Ukraine

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A member of a civilian defence force looks underneath a blanket where four people, all thought to be civilians, were found dead near Bucha

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...espicable-attacks-Ukrainians-Bucha-Irpin.html


 
crandc said:
What do you think should be done? Serious question. Not snark.
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Personally i feel it's time to enforce a no fly zone and i feel it's time to give Zelinsky his planes.
I feel Putin has crossed the line that i feel we should have given him. If Putin wants it to escalate then that's his choice. Right now we have the power to end this and shut him down.
One thing many people don't realize is we already have short range missile defense available to stop much of his Nuclear arsenal. If he chooses long range then he will be shooting directly at us he would be choosing to be the aggressor and would be starting a global conflict. Again that is on him. We also have some defense systems to stop those as well. How well it will work? That is the big question now isn't it? What we do know is he cannot win shooting Nuclear Missiles.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
It sucks just as much for Russia. People seem to forget that.
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The danger of a direct conflict with Russia, particularly so close to its borders, is the use of tactical nukes. You see how badly the Russians are doing against a Ukrainian army backed by the West, imagine how they would do against NATO forces. Then imagine the pressures and temptations that would put on Putin. And then consider that every war game simulation where tactical nukes are used has shown an inevitable escalation to full-scale nuclear war.

This is a horrific war, but it’s not going the way Putin had thought and he seems to be looking for a face-saving exit. Let’s hope that happens because the alternatives are far worse than anything we’ve seen so far.
 
e_blazer said:
The danger of a direct conflict with Russia, particularly so close to its borders, is the use of tactical nukes. You see how badly the Russians are doing against a Ukrainian army backed by the West, imagine how they would do against NATO forces. Then imagine the pressures and temptations that would put on Putin. And then consider that every war game simulation where tactical nukes are used has shown an inevitable escalation to full-scale nuclear war.

This is a horrific war, but it’s not going the way Putin had thought and he seems to be looking for a face-saving exit. Let’s hope that happens because the alternatives are far worse than anything we’ve seen so far.
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Everything you just posted is true. Putin knows all of this as well.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Everything you just posted is true. Putin knows all of this as well.
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Russia has developed small battlefield nukes and they have developed hypersonic missiles that would be nearly impossible to shoot down. You can’t assume that he’s not willing to use the small ones and bet that the West won’t want to face his arsenal of bigger ones.
 
No fly zone means shooting Russian planes out of the sky. It would be essentially a declaration of war against Russia.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Personally i feel it's time to enforce a no fly zone and i feel it's time to give Zelinsky his planes.
I feel Putin has crossed the line that i feel we should have given him. If Putin wants it to escalate then that's his choice. Right now we have the power to end this and shut him down.
One thing many people don't realize is we already have short range missile defense available to stop much of his Nuclear arsenal. If he chooses long range then he will be shooting directly at us he would be choosing to be the aggressor and would be starting a global conflict. Again that is on him. We also have some defense systems to stop those as well. How well it will work? That is the big question now isn't it? What we do know is he cannot win shooting Nuclear Missiles.
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I think we feel that we are providing enough help for Ukraine to win without taking that risk. In fact, it's going to start getting far worse for Russia as the equipment we've sent arrives and starts being used.

Russia can't hold Ukraine, only the few territories they basically had before they attacked. And if Ukraine isn't interested in keeping those (I don't know if they are or not), then it's not a risk we should take.

If Ukraine wants to kick Russia out of those places it can do so without risking nuclear war, just using the aid we've supplied, assuming they have the local civilian support.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm just not sure it's worth the risk. We're going to help Ukraine win.

I don't think we have the defensive capabilities you seem to think we do. We can't even locate an unknown ICBM let alone shoot it down.
 
e_blazer said:
Russia has developed small battlefield nukes and they have developed hypersonic missiles that would be nearly impossible to shoot down. You can’t assume that he’s not willing to use the small ones and bet that the West won’t want to face his arsenal of bigger ones.
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So have we.
 
crandc said:
No fly zone means shooting Russian planes out of the sky. It would be essentially a declaration of war against Russia.
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Yes it would if they choose to break the zone.
Their choice.
Give them the choice. Don’t fly and you don’t get shot down. Fly and you get shot down.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I think we feel that we are providing enough help for Ukraine to win without taking that risk. In fact, it's going to start getting far worse for Russia as the equipment we've sent arrives and starts being used.

Russia can't hold Ukraine, only the few territories they basically had before they attacked. And if Ukraine isn't interested in keeping those (I don't know if they are or not), then it's not a risk we should take.

If Ukraine wants to kick Russia out of those places it can do so without risking nuclear war, just using the aid we've supplied, assuming they have the local civilian support.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm just not sure it's worth the risk. We're going to help Ukraine win.

I don't think we have the defensive capabilities you seem to think we do. We can't even locate an unknown ICBM let alone shoot it down.
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A couple pretty big Assumptions but I understand your opinion on this. Not sure I can agree that is the way to handle it.
 
Like I said above. It’s my opinion that the US should put an end to this as quickly as possible.
How that happens is yet to be determined.
What we are doing now might very likely be the best way to handle it. I hope that is the case.
There are also a couple other conflicts going on now around the world that could use some help as well.
 
Is that Ali Velshi? Because I actually do watch him and have not heard him promoting World War III, something only a lunatic would.
 
crandc said:
Is that Ali Velshi? Because I actually do watch him and have not heard him promoting World War III, something only a lunatic would.
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I didn't watch the whole video, because it's too long for my tastes, but all he said in his clip was what's the point of global alliances if not to stop what putin is doing. Seems like a pretty large leap from that to say he is openly pushing for WW3.
 
RR7 said:
I didn't watch the whole video, because it's too long for my tastes, but all he said in his clip was what's the point of global alliances if not to stop what putin is doing. Seems like a pretty large leap from that to say he is openly pushing for WW3.
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Watch a bit further, around the 3:30 minute mark. Ali Velshi plainly explains his position on the war through twitter. And I find it quite disturbing.
 
Ive recently talked with a lieutenant in the US Army (know him well) and he said this war has been building for some time even before Crimea and the military has been training Ukrainians for a long while. He's not optimistic that Putin will retreat at all from Eastern Ukrain and the Port Cities of the south, and if he's not removed or taken out by his own, there very well could be a confrontation with NATO.
 
Hoopguru said:
Ive recently talked with a lieutenant in the US Army (know him well) and he said this war has been building for some time even before Crimea and the military has been training Ukrainians for a long while. He's not optimistic that Putin will retreat at all from Eastern Ukrain and the Port Cities of the south, and if he's not removed or taken out by his own, there very well could be a confrontation with NATO.
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If we give Ukraine the weapons they need they can push Putin back to Russia.

Russia is dying. Losing in Ukraine would eventually be the end of Putin.
 
Phatguysrule said:
If we give Ukraine the weapons they need they can push Putin back to Russia.

Russia is dying. Losing in Ukraine would eventually be the end of Putin.
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I mean, this sounds great but I have no more faith of confidence in anything good happening anymore. I think this drags on until there’s nothing left to destroy in Ukraine.
 
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