Politics Ukraine / Russia (6 Viewers)

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beast crnjo said:
I like how lefties have become pro-death, pro-nuclear war, it goes along well with so many other bat-shit crazy positions they've taken. I'm not saying the right is perfect, but more and more "the right" has simply become a bucket for sane people. Or people who, for whatever reason are able to see through the BS.
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The left is now the Bush-era neocon right. The script got flipped and they didn’t notice. The architects of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are now beloved contributors on CNN and MSNBC. You’ve got people with pride flags retweeting Bill Kristol and David Frum LOL.
2024 truly is an alternate universe. The effectiveness of the corporate media is horrifying.
 
jonnyboy said:
The left is now the Bush-era neocon right. The script got flipped and they didn’t notice. The architects of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are now beloved contributors on CNN and MSNBC. You’ve got people with pride flags retweeting Bill Kristol and David Frum LOL.
2024 truly is an alternate universe. The effectiveness of the corporate media is horrifying.
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Exactly. I've lost respect for so many. It's like we're mentally diverging into different species.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Russian state media personalities
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So not the Kremlin or Putin. Alot of uninformed people make alot of ridiculous predictions. Just look at this thread for example, or the US state media many here are parroting verbatim.
Phatguysrule said:
Also back in 2014 Putin boasted that he could take Kyiv in two weeks
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’could’ is not ‘would’ or ‘will’. It was never a military or official strategic objective. You are playing semantics.
 
jonnyboy said:
So not the Kremlin or Putin. Alot of uninformed people make alot of ridiculous predictions. Just look at this thread for example, or the US state media many here are parroting verbatim.

’could’ is not ‘would’ or ‘will’. It was never a military or official strategic objective. You are playing semantics.
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Help me understand this.

The two very large airborne assault groups that attacked the Antonov airport, only 6 miles from the capitol of Kyiv were:

1) lost?
2) a mirage?
3) looking for new jobs in Kyiv?


BTW, were do you get your info about this war from? I study a lot of sources, and NEVER find the info you post.
 
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jonnyboy said:
So not the Kremlin or Putin. Alot of uninformed people make alot of ridiculous predictions. Just look at this thread for example, or the US state media many here are parroting verbatim.

’could’ is not ‘would’ or ‘will’. It was never a military or official strategic objective. You are playing semantics.
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Did anybody claim it was a military or official strategic objective? Nope... I'm pretty sure you are the one playing semantics trying to back your way out of your prior comment, which was discussing what was advertised.

Who does advertising? The media...
 
oldfisherman said:
This is sad and funny.

Putin gave a speach full of propaganda, again. His plan is to make Russia totally self sufficient, probably due to the sanctions.

One of Putins goals is to build 1,000 passenger aircraft in the next 6 years. So far for the entire year of 2023, Russia has built 2.
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Just a quick update on Putin's goal of building 1,000 passenger aircraft by 2029.

2 aircraft confirmed built last year. One more built this year to date. Only 997 more to go.
 
Putin wouldn't want the headache of having to try and govern Ukraine. They are ethno-nationalists who openly celebrate Nazis. Which is something the ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine highly resented.

He just wants to ensure that Ukraine doesn't join NATO.
 
beast crnjo said:
Putin wouldn't want the headache of having to try and govern Ukraine. They are ethno-nationalists who openly celebrate Nazis. Which is something the ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine highly resented.

He just wants to ensure that Ukraine doesn't join NATO.
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Well he's done a shit job of it. His actions forced Sweden and Finland to join NATO and you can bet Ukraine is going to join as soon as possible.

Putin has been about the best thing NATO could hope for from a membership standpoint...
 
Phatguysrule said:
Well he's done a shit job of it. His actions forced Sweden and Finland to join NATO and you can bet Ukraine is going to join as soon as possible.

Putin has been about the best thing NATO could hope for from a membership standpoint...
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Ukraine hasn't joined NATO yet has it...Ukraine will surrender under the terms of agreeing to never join NATO. And when history proves this to be correct once again, you'll still not 2nd guess any of the propaganda you swallowed.
 
beast crnjo said:
Ukraine hasn't joined NATO yet has it...Ukraine will surrender under the terms of agreeing to never join NATO. And when history proves this to be correct once again, you'll still not 2nd guess any of the propaganda you swallowed.
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Did I say Ukraine had joined NATO? Nope. I said they will do so at the earliest opportunity.

I honestly don't know why you made that post. You refuted nothing I said (because it's irrefutable) and you added nothing.

How long are you going to pout after Biden wins and is free to supply Ukraine with all the weapons they need and Russia completely pulls out?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Did I say Ukraine had joined NATO? Nope. I said they will do so at the earliest opportunity.

I honestly don't know why you made that post. You refuted nothing I said (because it's irrefutable) and you added nothing.

How long are you going to pout after Biden wins and is free to supply Ukraine with all the weapons they need and Russia completely pulls out?
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Me: "He just wants to ensure that Ukraine doesn't join NATO."
You: "Well he's done a shit job of it."
Me: "Ukraine hasn't joined NATO yet has it...Ukraine will surrender under the terms of agreeing to never join NATO"
You: "I honestly don't know why you made that post. You refuted nothing I said..."

I cant expect you to have any understanding of the situation. You only listen to lies. And you don't seem to have a very good capacity for reflection, to understand the pattern of lies you've been told. You're quite typical of the masses.
 
beast crnjo said:
Me: "He just wants to ensure that Ukraine doesn't join NATO."
You: "Well he's done a shit job of it."
Me: "Ukraine hasn't joined NATO yet has it...Ukraine will surrender under the terms of agreeing to never join NATO"
You: "I honestly don't know why you made that post. You refuted nothing I said..."

I cant expect you to have any understanding of the situation. You only listen to lies. And you don't seem to have a very good capacity for reflection, to understand the pattern of lies you've been told. You're quite typical of the masses.
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Again, he's doing a shit job of it. Ukraine didn't want to join NATO until Russia invaded them.

That also forced further expansion of NATO by having 2 more countries join NATO.

So Once again. Putin is doing a shit job.
 
It seems people who want to see this war escalate will get their wish sooner or later...

And why would the US assist in such an attack unless they were trying to provoke an escalatory attack from Russia?

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Lose hundreds of thousands of troops to try and stop Ukraine from joining a defense pact

putin logic
 
beast crnjo said:
It seems people who want to see this war escalate will get their wish sooner or later...

And why would the US assist in such an attack unless they were trying to provoke an escalatory attack from Russia?

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Well. Russia said it so it must be true. And they were not massing troops to invade Crimea in 2014. And they definitely weren't massing troops to invade the rest of the country and attack Kyiv in February of 2022...

Nothing to see there... Russia is trustworthy!
 
Phatguysrule said:
Well. Russia said it so it must be true. And they were not massing troops to invade Crimea in 2014. And they definitely weren't massing troops to invade the rest of the country and attack Kyiv in February of 2022...

Nothing to see there... Russia is trustworthy!
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The fact that this incident took place is not being disputed. It's reported on CNN. (which is probably your favorite station).
 
crandc said:
And they didn't intervene in our presidential election because Putin said so and he can be trusted more than US intelligence.
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And Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian agent because she critisized the bombing of Syria, and Hillary Clinton did not pay to have the Steele Dossier fabricated, and the Hunter Biden laptop was a Russian Hoax, and the moon is a Russian hoax...
 
beast crnjo said:
The fact that this incident took place is not being disputed. It's reported on CNN. (which is probably your favorite station).
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I don't think anybody made any claims about if any incident happened.

Checking... Nope.

Let me be clear. I don't give a shit what claims Russia is making.

The fact that you're spreading what Cuomo says as a source against Letitia James and Russia as a source for anything shows have either very questionable motives or are incredibly gullible.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't think anybody made any claims about if any incident happened.

Checking... Nope.

Let me be clear. I don't give a shit what claims Russia is making.

The fact that you're spreading what Cuomo says as a source against Letitia James and Russia as a source for anything shows have either very questionable motives or are incredibly gullible.
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Then what did this mean, "Well. Russia said it so it must be true" if you were not casting doubt on the veracity of the claim? Once you found out it did in fact happen you try and pretend like you were never questioning it, and deflect to some irrelevant topic. :dry:
 
beast crnjo said:
Then what did this mean, "Well. Russia said it so it must be true" if you were not casting doubt on the veracity of the claim? Once you found out it did in fact happen you try and pretend like you were never questioning it, and deflect to some irrelevant topic. :dry:
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Oh, don't misunderstand me. I haven't even followed up to see what it was about. I don't even consider anything Russia says or claims as worth following up on or verifying. I just assume it's a flat out lie or propaganda and move on with my day. Maybe I'll make fun of the person who uses it as a source... But that's about it.

That's pretty much anything you say in the OT section. We can be pretty sure it's bullshit propaganda from some despot or other unless we've already heard it from a more reliable source. Be better.
 
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I suppose I shouldn't expect people to be able to track all the lies they've swallowed when they can't even remember what they said 5 minutes ago.

What else can launching cluster munitions into a civilian area be considered except for a deliberate provocation?

I"ve thought from the start that the west wanted all-out war with Russia, based on the way they were spinning the conflict in the media. I think plan A was to try and win by proxy, and plan B to go into all out hot war if Plan A failed (which it has).
 
Phatguysrule said:
Oh, don't misunderstand me. I haven't even followed up to see what it was about. I don't even consider anything Russia says or claims as worth following up on or verifying. I just assume it's a flat out lie or propaganda and move on with my day. Maybe I'll make fun of the person who use it as a source... But that's about it.

That's pretty much anything you say in the OT section. We can be pretty sure it's bullshit propaganda from some despot or other unless we've already heard it from a more reliable source. Be better.
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Well, this demonstrates how that is not a good strategy, because I'm clearly bringing you factual information that you missed from whatever bubble you're in. You lefties like to play the "attack the messenger" game.

There is probably not much any of us can do to stop this now, but if everyone in the US realized what was going on and demanded our leaders to reverse course, it just might be effective. Or we could possibly replace our leaders with sane ones before all hell breaks loose.
 
beast crnjo said:
I suppose I shouldn't expect people to be able to track all the lies they've swallowed when they can't even remember what they said 5 minutes ago.

What else can launching cluster munitions into a civilian area be considered except for a deliberate provocation?

I"ve thought from the start that the west wanted all-out war with Russia, based on the way they were spinning the conflict in the media. I think plan A was to try and win by proxy, and plan B to go into all out hot war if Plan A failed (which it has).
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Russia has targeted civilian areas since day one. Hospitals, Malls, Movie Theaters, Apartments, etc.
 
beast crnjo said:
Well, this demonstrates how that is not a good strategy, because I'm clearly bringing you factual information that you missed from whatever bubble you're in. You lefties like to play the "attack the messenger" game.

There is probably not much any of us can do to stop this now, but if everyone in the US realized what was going on and demanded our leaders to reverse course, it just might be effective. Or we could possibly replace our leaders with sane ones before all hell breaks loose.
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I don't care if any information from Russia is factual. It's not worth the time.

The only reason I'm responding to you is because you're bringing their bullshit into an area I pay attention to. I don't care if any of it is somewhat true. Russia isn't a victim. Anything that is happening to the people of Russian have been brought on to them by neighbors Russia's leaders have tortured.

Russia needs to be better and get rid of their despot leaders and hit the reset button. Once they do that I'll go back to caring about them.

It may sound harsh, but that's the only option. We can't allow their propaganda to soften our approach. That's what they want. It just tells me that Russia is starting to get desperate. They know they don't have the numbers to hold Ukraine by force. And once Biden wins Ukraine will get even better support from the US.

Nobody intelligent in the US cares anything about what any media out of Russia is saying.
 
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