Politics Undocumented Immigrants Help Lower Crime Rates

[Phatguysrule]

Comparing Crime Rates Between Undocumented Immigrants, Legal Immigrants, and Native-born US Citizens in Texas

undocumented immigrants had substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, U.S.-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes.

 

[barfo]

Yes, but that's just because the US born citizens are so stressed about the immigrants that they have to do some criming to release tension. So it's all due to the immigrants after all.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Immigrants are significantly less likely to commit crimes than the U.S.-born

Study finds over a 150-year period, immigrants have never been incarcerated at a greater rate than those born in the United States

 

[Phatguysrule]

Yes, but that's just because the US born citizens are so stressed about the immigrants that they have to do some criming to release tension. So it's all due to the immigrants after all.

barfo

Is this similar to how Republicans commit voter fraud at significantly higher rates because they think (incorrectly) that a bunch of woke librals are doing it?

 

[crandc]

They are also more likely to start a small business and to serve in the military.

But don't let facts get in the way of hate. I mean, German Jews before 1932 were highly educated, law abiding citizens.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The mythical tie between immigration and crime

Research by Stanford’s Ran Abramitzky and co-authors uncovers the most extensive evidence to date that immigrants are less likely to be imprisoned than U.S.-born individuals.

 

[THE HCP]

Immigrants are significantly less likely to commit crimes than the U.S.-born

Study finds over a 150-year period, immigrants have never been incarcerated at a greater rate than those born in the United States

But that’s such a small sample size right??

 

[Road Ratt]

My literal thinking tells me the title of this thread is misleading. Helping to lower crime rates, for me, implies that they are helping to catch criminals, or helping to stop crime themselves. Undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes. Would have been more accurate in my head.

Besides, I am not sure how undocumented immigrants can help lower crimes rates... while being in the U.S. illegally. Lol.


On topic: It is good to see that the immigration issue is mostly a media scare tactic. Keep your viewers entertained rather than informed.

 

[crandc]

Because crime rate is crime per total population. Add more law abiding people to population and crime rate goes down.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

My literal thinking tells me the title of this thread is misleading. Helping to lower crime rates, for me, implies that they are helping to catch criminals, or helping to stop crime themselves. Undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes. Would have been more accurate in my head.

Besides, I am not sure how undocumented immigrants can help lower crimes rates... while being in the U.S. illegally. Lol.


On topic: It is good to see that the immigration issue is mostly a media scare tactic. Keep your viewers entertained rather than informed.

Superman was an illegal immigrant.

 

[Phatguysrule]

My literal thinking tells me the title of this thread is misleading. Helping to lower crime rates, for me, implies that they are helping to catch criminals, or helping to stop crime themselves. Undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes. Would have been more accurate in my head.

Besides, I am not sure how undocumented immigrants can help lower crimes rates... while being in the U.S. illegally. Lol.


On topic: It is good to see that the immigration issue is mostly a media scare tactic. Keep your viewers entertained rather than informed.

By committing crime at lower rates they help reduce the overall crime rates.

Police catch criminals but don't necessarily help lower crime rates.

Undocumented presence in the United States is only criminally punishable if it occurs after an individual was previously formally removed from the United States and then returned without permission.

https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/upl...ted_immigrants_issue_brief_PUBLIC_VERSION.pdf

 

[Road Ratt]

By committing crime at lower rates they help reduce the overall crime rates.

I'd argue this one until the cows came home. But, you can't seemingly see my literal thinking, that will never show me that undocumented immigrants lower overall crime rates. It just isn't logical. One person's crime can't lower the overall crime rate, ever. It only... adds to it. Undocumented immigrants can never lower crime rates, by committing crimes themselves. In reality, they can only add to the crime rate. They just add... less of a crime rate than other people do.

Another way to see it is with math. It's like saying Americans brought 3 fish to the cookout while undocumented immigrants brought 2 fish to the cookout and then saying that they lowered the overall fish rate at the feast. No, they only added to the overall number of fish at the feast. Not lowered it. Math won't allow me to see it ever lowering anything, only adding to it, at a lower rate.

 

[barfo]

The crime rate is the ratio between the number of felonies and misdemeanors recorded by the police, and the population in question.

Rate and number aren't the same thing.

barfo

 

[crandc]

Barfo understands math.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'd argue this one until the cows came home. But, you can't seemingly see my literal thinking, that will never show me that undocumented immigrants lower overall crime rates. It just isn't logical. One person's crime can't lower the overall crime rate, ever. It only... adds to it. Undocumented immigrants can never lower crime rates, by committing crimes themselves. In reality, they can only add to the crime rate. They just add... less of a crime rate than other people do.

Another way to see it is with math. It's like saying Americans brought 3 fish to the cookout while undocumented immigrants brought 2 fish to the cookout and then saying that they lowered the overall fish rate at the feast. No, they only added to the overall number of fish at the feast. Not lowered it. Math won't allow me to see it ever lowering anything, only adding to it, at a lower rate.

If a given demographic commits fewer crimes than another they are literally lowering the combined rate of crime.

That is as literal as it gets.

 

[Road Ratt]

Americans add 3 to the crime rate. Your crime rate is now 3. Undocumented immigrants add 2 to your crime rate. Your overall crime rate is now 5. Undocumented immigrants didn't magically reduce your crime rate by 2, it added to your crime rate. So my math skills are just fine.

In this scenario say Americans again equal 3, but we have Americans on both sides of the equation. Your total crime rate is now 6. In our original scenario, Americans add 3 to the total while undocumented immigrants add 2. Your total crime rate is 5. If you take the first total of 6, it is higher than the 5 you have in our 2nd scenario. But, this doesn't mean that the overall crime rate went down. It just means your crime rate is going up slower with undocumented immigrants compared to the first scenario.

You can never lower the crime rate by adding more crime. It just isn't logical.

Done here now, not going to explain this further.

Take 'er easy.

 

[julius]

the mental gymnastics some of you do to justify blaming Immigrants is quite impressive.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Americans add 3 to the crime rate. Your crime rate is now 3. Undocumented immigrants add 2 to your crime rate. Your overall crime rate is now 5. Undocumented immigrants didn't magically reduce your crime rate by 2, it added to your crime rate. So my math skills are just fine.

In this scenario say Americans again equal 3, but we have Americans on both sides of the equation. Your total crime rate is now 6. In our original scenario, Americans add 3 to the total while undocumented immigrants add 2. Your total crime rate is 5. If you take the first total of 6, it is higher than the 5 you have in our 2nd scenario. But, this doesn't mean that the overall crime rate went down. It just means your crime rate is going up slower with undocumented immigrants compared to the first scenario.

You can never lower the crime rate by adding more crime. It just isn't logical.

Done here now, not going to explain this further.

Take 'er easy.

The rate is the amount per person (or per given number, which stays the same)

So if you have 10 natural born Americans who commit 3 crimes you have 3 crimes per 10 people. Or .3 crimes per person.

If you add 10 undocumented Immigrants who commit 2 crimes you now have 5 crimes per 20 people. Or 2.5 crimes per 10 people. Or .25 crimes per person.

That is a lower crime rate. That is always what is being talked about when referring to rates of anything.

Again, this isn't an opinion. This is math.

 

[crandc]

There are five men in a room. 100% of people in the room are men. The rate is 1.0. Five women enter the room. The number of men in the room hasn't changed but the rate is now 0.5.
Look, math instruction is often not great in this country so no shame in not being numerate. But insisting everyone else is wrong....

 

[SheedSoNasty]

the mental gymnastics some of you do to justify blaming Immigrants is quite impressive.

I could be wrong, but I think they’re arguing over semantics and math definitions more than whether immigrants are being blamed for anything.

 

[julius]

There are five men in a room. 100% of people in the room are men. The rate is 1.0. Five women enter the room. The number of men in the room hasn't changed but the rate is now 0.5.
Look, math instruction is often not great in this country so no shame in not being numerate. But insisting everyone else is wrong....

would seemingly show a fundamental misunderstanding of things and indicate that someone isn't as good at presenting and using facts to back what they are saying?

 

[julius]

I could be wrong, but I think they’re arguing over semantics and math definitions more than whether immigrants are being blamed for anything.

If you listen to the people who make claims like this, especially when it comes to racist tropes or "facts" that back then up, claiming it's about semantics or trying to manipulate math to prove their argument is the method they use.

 

[Phatguysrule]

If you listen to the people who make claims like this, especially when it comes to racist tropes or "facts" that back then up, claiming it's about semantics or trying to manipulate math to prove their argument is the method they use.

True. However, implying intent often encourages a conversation to devolve into a pissing match and while you're bringing up good points I am choosing to believe that is not the intent of anybody in this conversation.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

We should undocument all felons!

 

[julius]

True. However, implying intent often encourages a conversation to devolve into a pissing match and while you're bringing up good points I am choosing to believe that is not the intent of anybody in this conversation.

Track record.