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Apparently you did, though.
My point was that I'm not the only one who thiks Kaiser (the company) has poor service. I would think you know that given your ties to the company, but it sounds like you are oblivious to all the complaints or don't realize that Kaiser is not the most well looked upon health care provider.[/QUOTE]

Now probably isn't the time to tell you that the Kaiser CEO is an advisor to President Obama, and that the Kaiser model is the blueprint for a long-term public HMO model.[/QUOTE]

If Kaiser is the blueprint for a long-term public HMO model . . . then you and I are in agreement, the adminstration is making a mistake.

See, I can change my mind. That is about the strongest statement I can think about against the health care bill.
 
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Beware of what you wish for. :biglaugh:

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes....hief-optimistic-about-health-overhaul-effort/

Kaiser Permanente’s Chief Optimistic About Health Overhaul Effort

George Halvorson, the chief executive of one of the nation’s most respected health care systems, Kaiser Permanente, says he is hopeful that all the sausage-making in Washington will succeed in squeezing out a law.

“I’m optimistic because, A, we need reform and, B, the president needs the bill,” Mr. Halvorson said in an interview Tuesday.

“The political downside if a bill doesn’t pass is just too great,” said Mr. Halvorson, who was an informal adviser on efforts under the Clinton administration to overhaul health care. Back then, he says, there was not the same urgency among policy makers to make sure legislation passed.

Kaiser Permanente, the big H.M.O.-style nonprofit health plan in California, is often held up as a model for a system that provides high-quality patient care at reasonable cost.

Despite his organization’s focus, Mr. Halvorson said he was not concerned about the current emphasis in Washington to expand insurance coverage rather than improve patient care. Congress needs to tackle both issues — universal coverage and better care — he said, but lawmakers need to expand coverage first.

“You can’t fix care first and then insure everybody,” he said.

Like all health plans, Kaiser would benefit from an influx of new customers, of course. But Mr. Halvorson says he is just as concerned about the prospects of the nation improving its medical care while saving money.

After passing a bill to give more people insurance, he said, Congress should move immediately to pass legislation aimed at improving how doctors and hospitals deliver care. “Two very quick swings, and the same at-bat,” he said.

Still, Mr. Halvorson, who offers his own thoughts on fixing the system in his book, “Health Care Will Not Reform Itself,” also warned against Washington’s trying to micromanage the nation’s medical care.

Instead, he said, lawmakers should support efforts to reward improvements in care for a handful of chronic conditions like asthma and heart failure, which affect millions of people and are some of the highest contributors to the nation’s health care bill. Tracking the care of those patients would be a good start, he said. “You don’t have to fix a lot of things.”
 
Yes, I admit to complete ignorance about the inner workings of Kaiser. Never used them. For all I know it's a delightful company. I wasn't the one who brought them up.

But I'm pretty fucking fed up with our current health care system. I'm pissed that I can't get decent coverage for a couple of people who work for my wife. I'm tired of my own insurance company fucking around time after time, losing paperwork, denying coverage, yadda yadda yadda.

I'm to the point where I tell myself, to quote Aliens, let's nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

I can see how you'd take offense at it. I probably would too if somebody was capturing my own wife in such a blanket statement. And I regret that I've offended you.

But nothing here has changed how god damn tired I am of the current system and how anything has got to be better than this.

Do you really think ANYTHING will be better than the current situation? Because I guarantee you government control of our healthcare system won't be. You wouldn't be able to employ as many people, because no amount of belt-tightening would make up for that 8% penalty for not providing insurance. That woman over 55 with thyroid cancer? Use your cookbook software to make her a really pretty will. Those jobs you think you created in Seattle? That company will have to limit their hires to pay for other people's healthcare. As for efficiency, you really think the Federal Government will do a better job than a health insurance company? And then let's talk about denying claims. As I posted earlier, guess which insurance company leads the pack at 6.85% of claims? Yep. You guessed it. Good ol' Medicare.

The system can be improved, but not through the heavy hand of government. Lift state requirements on what insurance companies can offer. Enact tort reform. Allow people to deduct health care expenses just like companies. Create health savings accounts. That's just a start, but it would go a long way to helping the current situation. Furthermore, it happens overnight, not in 2013.
 
If Kaiser is the blueprint for a long-term public HMO model . . . then you and I are in agreement, the adminstration is making a mistake.

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicin...Advocates-Annual-Quality-Report-Card-30270-1/

If Kaiser is the most highly-rated plan by patients in the largest state in the union, I'd hate to see the other plans. Perhaps you and Mook should start your own healthcare company since you have all of the answers. :devilwink:

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicin...Advocates-Annual-Quality-Report-Card-30270-1/

Kaiser Permanente Receives the Most Stars in California Office of Patient Advocate's Annual Quality Report Card

OAKLAND, Calif., Nov. 20 /PRNewswire/ -- kaiser Permanente is the only health plan in california to earn excellent, four-star ratings in the 2009 Edition Healthcare Quality Report Card from the california Office of the Patient Advocate (OPA).

The report card results, announced today by the california OPA, also show kaiser Permanente Northern california and Southern california receiving the highest scores overall in clinical quality among the nine health plans surveyed.

Kaiser Permanente Northern california earned the highest marks overall in the report's comparison of medical services, earning excellent, four-star ratings in asthma care, diabetes care, checking for cancer, heart care, maternity care, mental health care, and Chlamydia screening.
The annual report, available online at http://www.healthcarequality.ca.gov, provides california consumers with side-by-side comparisons of health plans, ranking them on a wide array of standard-of-care measures that have both immediate and long-term implications on personal health.

In the category of heart care, kaiser Permanente Northern california was one of only two plans in the state to receive four stars for a series of measures that included controlling cholesterol and hypertension and appropriate medications for heart attack. The other four-star plan for heart care was kaiser Permanente Southern california.

Kaiser Permanente Northern and Southern california also shared top honors in categories that included management of blood sugar levels among diabetics, treatment of asthma with the appropriate medications, and screening for breast cancer.

"This report demonstrates the superior clinical outcomes which patients are able to achieve through kaiser Permanente," said Robert Pearl, MD, CEO and executive director of The Permanente Medical Group, which se
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http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicin...Advocates-Annual-Quality-Report-Card-30270-1/

If Kaiser is the most highly-rated plan by patients in the largest state in the union, I'd hate to see the other plans. Perhaps you and Mook should start your own healthcare company since you have all of the answers. :devilwink:

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicin...Advocates-Annual-Quality-Report-Card-30270-1/


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Well let me inform you will all the confidence in the worls that Kaiser is not the best health plan out there. I know it is hard to hear and I'm sure you will find links to say it is, but it really isn't.

To quote rainman "Kaiser sucks!"
 
Healthcare workers are the latest scapegoats.

Again, what services do you provide your people in need? I'm also fairly certain you don't know how Kaiser operates, but I'll leave you alone in your ignorance.

I have a friend who worked in Kaiser as the head Intensive Care unit nurse. She talked sooo much shit about their policies. When I told her my parents have their insurance through Kaiser she got scared for my parents. According to her they are VERY stingy when treating patients. The bare minimum of care was what they did. They never let her do any precautionary checkups or anything like that. She since moved jobs because of their policies. She is now holds the same job but at UCLA medical center in Santa Monica...so Im pretty sure she knows what she is talking about.

Now Papa, Im commenting on what this one Kaiser does...not what your wife does, so dont get your panties in a bunch :cheers:
 
Do you really think ANYTHING will be better than the current situation? Because I guarantee you government control of our healthcare system won't be. You wouldn't be able to employ as many people, because no amount of belt-tightening would make up for that 8% penalty for not providing insurance. That woman over 55 with thyroid cancer? Use your cookbook software to make her a really pretty will. Those jobs you think you created in Seattle? That company will have to limit their hires to pay for other people's healthcare. As for efficiency, you really think the Federal Government will do a better job than a health insurance company? And then let's talk about denying claims. As I posted earlier, guess which insurance company leads the pack at 6.85% of claims? Yep. You guessed it. Good ol' Medicare.

The system can be improved, but not through the heavy hand of government. Lift state requirements on what insurance companies can offer. Enact tort reform. Allow people to deduct health care expenses just like companies. Create health savings accounts. That's just a start, but it would go a long way to helping the current situation. Furthermore, it happens overnight, not in 2013.


Agreed. There are many ways to provide both acceptable overall reform as well as ways to provide healthcare to all. Why do we do the single most expensive, intrusive and worst way first?
 
Well let me inform you will all the confidence in the worls that Kaiser is not the best health plan out there. I know it is hard to hear and I'm sure you will find links to say it is, but it really isn't.

To quote rainman "Kaiser sucks!"

The President and the California Office of Patient Advocates seem to think you're wrong.

Again, why not start your own healthcare model? You seem to have a lot of ideas on what is wrong with the system.
 
I have a friend who worked in Kaiser as the head Intensive Care unit nurse. She talked sooo much shit about their policies. When I told her my parents have their insurance through Kaiser she got scared for my parents. According to her they are VERY stingy when treating patients. The bare minimum of care was what they did. They never let her do any precautionary checkups or anything like that. She since moved jobs because of their policies. She is now holds the same job but at UCLA medical center in Santa Monica...so Im pretty sure she knows what she is talking about.

Now Papa, Im commenting on what this one Kaiser does...not what your wife does, so dont get your panties in a bunch :cheers:

I've had Kaiser a couple of times. I have nothing but the very best of things to say about them. To be sure, a few things I did not like, but the care was fine.
 
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Do you really think ANYTHING will be better than the current situation? Because I guarantee you government control of our healthcare system won't be. You wouldn't be able to employ as many people, because no amount of belt-tightening would make up for that 8% penalty for not providing insurance. That woman over 55 with thyroid cancer? Use your cookbook software to make her a really pretty will. Those jobs you think you created in Seattle? That company will have to limit their hires to pay for other people's healthcare. As for efficiency, you really think the Federal Government will do a better job than a health insurance company? And then let's talk about denying claims. As I posted earlier, guess which insurance company leads the pack at 6.85% of claims? Yep. You guessed it. Good ol' Medicare.

The system can be improved, but not through the heavy hand of government. Lift state requirements on what insurance companies can offer. Enact tort reform. Allow people to deduct health care expenses just like companies. Create health savings accounts. That's just a start, but it would go a long way to helping the current situation. Furthermore, it happens overnight, not in 2013.

What baffles me is that mook thinks that a government-run program would be better for his employees or their spouses with terminal or pre-existing conditions. You pointed out the Medicare % of denials. The number I've seen is even higher than that, making it double the rate of the highest denial rate among private insurers.
 
...and when Ive gone to Kaiser Ive wanted to go postal on them....They DO suck. The doctors dont give a rats ass about you.

I have a chipped bone floating in my elbow due to a snow skiing accident. I go to get it xrayed and removed since it would periodically cause pain. The doctor came in after an hour wait and wrote an order for an xray. I go to the xray unit to find out the dumb doctor wrote down the wrong arm for xray. They wouldnt xray the correct one until they had his writtem permission...which took another two hours. I get the xray finally.

Two weeks later I get a one sentance letter from the doctor.

"I see no significant abnormalities"....what the fuck does that mean?!? So there ARE some abnormalities but you dont think they are a big deal??? How about the pain? How about the the chipped bone is floating around and could float into my joint?!? Care to give me more than one fucking sentence since I was there for 5-6hours because of your fuckup?!? WTF. I promised myself Im not going back there until im about to die.
 
...and when Ive gone to Kaiser Ive wanted to go postal on them....They DO suck. The doctors dont give a rats ass about you.

I have a chipped bone floating in my elbow due to a snow skiing accident. I go to get it xrayed and removed since it would periodically cause pain. The doctor came in after an hour wait and wrote an order for an xray. I go to the xray unit to find out the dumb doctor wrote down the wrong arm for xray. They wouldnt xray the correct one until they had his writtem permission...which took another two hours. I get the xray finally.

Two weeks later I get a one sentance letter from the doctor.

"I see no significant abnormalities"....what the fuck does that mean?!? So there ARE some abnormalities but you dont think they are a big deal??? How about the pain? How about the the chipped bone is floating around and could float into my joint?!? Care to give me more than one fucking sentence since I was there for 5-6hours because of your fuckup?!? WTF. I promised myself Im not going back there until im about to die.

Chipped bones will typically dissolve on their own. I'm guessing you are OK now w/out surgery. Do you go to the doctor for hangnails and sniffles as well? Or, did you shop around for a surgeon to take out the chip that healed on it's own? Some ibuprofen would have done the trick and likely did. Toughen up. :)
 
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j

Chipped bones will typically dissolve on their own. I'm guessing you are OK now w/out surgery. Do you go to the doctor for hangnails and sniffles as well? Or, did you shop around for a surgeon to take out the chip that healed on it's own? Some ibuprofen would have done the trick and likely did. Toughen up. :)

well since that chipped bone happened two years ago, still sometimes causes pain, and when i roll my elbow on a table you can hear the bone rolling over with a loud thud....no its still very much there and annoying

Thanks Dr. Papa, but no thanks

....and I know this sounds unbelivable but its true...I was in a car accident many years ago. I had a precautionary MRI (not at Kaiser) and afterwards the doctor asked when I broke my back..."Uh what doctor?" He points out where my back had broke and fused back together....I never knew I broke my back but after him telling me this I have a suspicion when it happened when I was around 12 or so...

....so yes...I have a very high pain threshold thank u very much.

Ive also WALKED on a broken ankle to the hospital...so yeah
 
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well since that chipped bone happened two years ago, still sometimes causes pain, and when i roll my elbow on a table you can hear the bone rolling over with a loud thud....no its still very much there and annoying

Thanks Dr. Papa, but no thanks

Go ask for a 2nd opinion. You know you can do that, right? Or go pay for it on your own outside of the Kaiser system. It's an elective surgery.
 
...and when Ive gone to Kaiser Ive wanted to go postal on them....They DO suck. The doctors dont give a rats ass about you.

I have a chipped bone floating in my elbow due to a snow skiing accident. I go to get it xrayed and removed since it would periodically cause pain. The doctor came in after an hour wait and wrote an order for an xray. I go to the xray unit to find out the dumb doctor wrote down the wrong arm for xray. They wouldnt xray the correct one until they had his writtem permission...which took another two hours. I get the xray finally.

Two weeks later I get a one sentance letter from the doctor.

"I see no significant abnormalities"....what the fuck does that mean?!? So there ARE some abnormalities but you dont think they are a big deal??? How about the pain? How about the the chipped bone is floating around and could float into my joint?!? Care to give me more than one fucking sentence since I was there for 5-6hours because of your fuckup?!? WTF. I promised myself Im not going back there until im about to die.

That experience sounds a lot like socialized medicine, except you didn't have to wait as long.
 
Go ask for a 2nd opinion. You know you can do that, right? Or go pay for it on your own outside of the Kaiser system. It's an elective surgery.

Wow that sounds great! So get a 2nd opinion because the Kaiser doctor didnt do his job correctly! Sweet! Pay to go to an outside source because my insurance company is incompetent! Awesome!

Gee...Im in pain and a simple local anesthetic procedure would instantly rectify this issue yet they wouldnt even consider that?!? So unless Im on deaths doorstep they are gonna sit there with their thumb up their collective asses....awesome:sigh:

btw...see 2nd part of my last post i added
 
That experience sounds a lot like socialized medicine, except you didn't have to wait as long.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out the problem. He went in, got a diagnosis, and disagreed with the remedy. All in the span of a few weeks for a non-emergent injury. At least in this current system, he has the option to shop around for alternative remedies, although for some reason he refuses to do so. That's not the case in a purely socialized system.
 
Wow that sounds great! So get a 2nd opinion because the Kaiser doctor didnt do his job correctly! Sweet! Pay to go to an outside source because my insurance company is incompetent! Awesome!
Gee...Im in pain and a simple local anesthetic procedure would instantly rectify this issue yet they wouldnt even consider that?!? So unless Im on deaths doorstep they are gonna sit there with their thumb up their collective asses....awesome:sigh:

btw...see 2nd part of my last post i added

The Kaiser doctor did do his job correctly. He diagnosed the injury. What you disagree with is the remedy option. At least you now have the option of finding somebody to do your elective procedure. You would not have that option in a single-payer plan.
 
The Kaiser doctor did do his job correctly. He diagnosed the injury. What you disagree with is the remedy option. At least you now have the option of finding somebody to do your elective procedure. You would not have that option in a single-payer plan.

really...so i still have pain and he didnt even write down the correct arm for xray and he did his job correctly? Wow...can I work for you?

OOO look what I found

http://www.kaiserthrive.org/
 
really...so i still have pain and he didnt even write down the correct arm for xray and he did his job correctly? Wow...can I work for you?

OOO look what I found

http://www.kaiserthrive.org/

I'm just wondering why you don't go and get it taken care of under your current health plan. Or are you still with Kaiser?

Is your website supposed to prove a point? 3 negative stories about Kaiser in the last 14 months. Whoopety doo! You seem to complain a lot, but you won't take simple steps to rectify your situation.
 
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I'm just wondering why you don't go and get it taken care of under your current health plan. Or are you still with Kaiser?

My parents are gracious enough to pay for my health insurance :)

Since Im in real estate Im under no employers plan
 
My parents are gracious enough to pay for my health insurance :)

Since Im in real estate Im under no employers plan

So you don't even pay for your coverage, yet you are complaining about it. Interesting.
 
So you don't even pay for your coverage, yet you are complaining about it. Interesting.

Way to change the argument...I knew you were gonna try that even before u posted

So because my parents pay for my insurance it makes Kaiser's substandard care okay?

Ill take Kaiser over nothing but that doesnt make them good, just better than nothing
 
Way to change the argument...I knew you were gonna try that even before u posted

So because my parents pay for my insurance it makes Kaiser's substandard care okay?

Ill take Kaiser over nothing but that doesnt make them good, just better than nothing

That's fair enough. I still don't see what the outrage is, though. Tell them your elbow is still throbbing. You'll be referred and the surgeon will make the decision. Did you push back on the initial diagnosis?
 
Im not "outraged" just saw people talkin about Kaiser and I threw in my 2cents.

Yes I called Kaiser complaining about the BS letter I received. They said I could schedule an appt with the doctor to talk to him about it. Since I ALREADY told him the situation and didnt want to waste a half a day to accomplish nothing. What I DID do was go to their complaint dept to try to get back my money I paid for the visit since they didnt do a single thing right. They were nice enough to send me a letter that THEY decided THEY werent gonna give me my $50 back....gee Im glad they were impartial about it....assholes
 
The President and the California Office of Patient Advocates seem to think you're wrong.

Again, why not start your own healthcare model? You seem to have a lot of ideas on what is wrong with the system.

You're going off the deep end papag.

Why don't you start a NBA franchise, you seem to have a lot of ideas with what is wrong with the Blazers. :crazy:
 

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