Unions, America's Backbone

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magnifier661 said:
two companies... And I don't think it's any of your business how much I make. We aren't a public company. And when I get stoned; I do that on my own time. I am never stoned at work, nor plan to be stoned at work. And, just because I was placed in the company doesn't mean I didn't deserve to be here. Since my arrival; our sales have increased 12% per year on average. So your condesending remarks are a joke and hold no relevance.

And before these companies, I actually purchased a printing and graphics company in 96. During the time of purchase; the company was barely pulling in sales of 12k per month. By the time I sold the company; it was averaging gross sales of 58k (took me 3 years to get to that point).

Other than how much I make; is there anything else you would like to know?
Click to expand...

I should apologize for such a rude question, and impractical too, since what you pay yourself wouldn't include perks like travel, the limo, the jet, the babes...a better question would be, how much is your family worth?

Oops.
 
Boeing hasn't moved jobs there yet from Washington State, but is expected to, once the political problems have disappeared.
 
jlprk said:
I should apologize for such a rude question, and impractical too, since what you pay yourself wouldn't include perks like travel, the limo, the jet, the babes...a better question would be, how much is your family worth?

Oops.
Click to expand...

So rich that in a few years they're going to rename the state Magifornia!
 
jlprk said:
I should apologize for such a rude question, and impractical too, since what you pay yourself wouldn't include perks like travel, the limo, the jet, the babes...a better question would be, how much is your family worth?

Oops.
Click to expand...

Apology accepted. Next time, don't let your life inadequacies get the better of you and ask questions that aren't any of your business.

My family is worth more than anything I could ever make.
 
Ever noticed how Denny and Sly appear whenever an argument lasts for awhile? It's like the undertaker and his assistant, the guy with the shovel. Time to bury this.
 
My memory's receding faster thsn my hair! I forgot to apologize for the second question! Oops!

I still forgot! What was it again?
 
jlprk said:
Ever noticed how Denny and Sly appear whenever an argument lasts for awhile? It's like the undertaker and his assistant, the guy with the shovel. Time to bury this.
Click to expand...

I saw things might be getting a little personal so I jumped in with a little lighthearted banter.
 
jlprk said:
My memory's receding faster thsn my hair! I forgot to apologize for the second question! Oops!

I still forgot! What was it again?
Click to expand...

You were asking about getting a job at my companies. You forgot that I already told you I can't hire an arrogant prick like SlyPokerDog cause I don't want anyone working there too much like myself.

EDIT: DAMN YOU SLY!!!!!
 
Last edited:
SlyPokerDog said:
I saw things might be getting a little personal so I jumped in with a little lighthearted banter.
Click to expand...

Hey! That's my trick. On ESPN I was the Devil; here I'm a comedian. What will my next evil incarnation be?
 
magnifier661 said:
You were asking about getting a job at my companies. You forgot that I already told you I can't hire an arrogant prick like SlyPokerDog cause I don't want anyone working there too much like myself.

EDIT: DAMN YOU SLY!!!!!
Click to expand...

I'll tell you my income. Zero. No Social Security or pension. Well, a little dividend income...
 
Hey Sly, how much do you make?

Hey Denny, how much do you make?

Hey HCP...
...what's cookin'?
 
jlprk said:
50 per hour! What are you talking about? The pay had been lowered contract after contract. Management kept demanding concessions, threatening to go out of business. Years ago, the workers gave back their accumulated pensions (which had been payroll deducted from their contracted pay for many years) and were never repaid, since the owners couldn't afford it. The future held only more concessions. They all said, we can do better elsewhere, let's put these loser owners out of their misery.
Click to expand...

Industry: Bakery
Median Salary by Job Job National Salary Data (?
XAll compensation data shown are the gross, national median (50th percentile). Pay can vary greatly by location. To view local data, take the PayScale survey.
) $0 $23K $46K $69K
Pastry Chef $33,381
Baker $30,037
Production Supervisor $43,325
Production Supervisor, Manufacturing $54,429
Bakery Manager $36,597
General Manager, Restaurant $40,069
Production Manager, Manufacturing $68,483
Country: United States | Currency: USD | Updated: 7 Dec 2012 | Individuals Reporting: 600

pay attention to three things, this is an overall view, hostess was "production" wages, wages do not include benifits, and last, none of these pay scales look line min wage McDonalds jobs as you claimed...
 
magnifier661 said:
Yeah man cause these workers just don't have a backbone to quit on their own. And the State labor laws already have laws in place that protect employees. You are talking about the dinosaur ages when blue colar workers had zero rights. The State Board of Equilization and OSHA all govern safety and work related exploitation. The unions are really negotiating salaries and perks.
Click to expand...

So you are in favor of gov't spending to protect employees rights. Nice to see mags. :)

And workers should join together to negotiate salaries and perks . . . or do you leave that all to the corporations to decide. Because those corporations, every now and then, will take advantage of their workers.
 
jlprk said:
Do you understand that the 8000 skilled union people will easily find jobs? It's not part of their decision to worry about 8000 at the bottom who aren't looking hard because they live with someone employed, or whatever. Can't you understand that it's not the 8000 unionists' responsibility to take care of the whole economy? It's their job to escape a rotten employer.
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I know you are kidding now,"escape a rotten employer" lol

oh, and to be straight, its more like 18500 employees that are hurt by this situation.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
Industry: Bakery
Median Salary by Job Job National Salary Data (?
XAll compensation data shown are the gross, national median (50th percentile). Pay can vary greatly by location. To view local data, take the PayScale survey.
) $0 $23K $46K $69K
Pastry Chef $33,381
Baker $30,037
Production Supervisor $43,325
Production Supervisor, Manufacturing $54,429
Bakery Manager $36,597
General Manager, Restaurant $40,069
Production Manager, Manufacturing $68,483
Country: United States | Currency: USD | Updated: 7 Dec 2012 | Individuals Reporting: 600

pay attention to three things, this is an overall view, hostess was "production" wages, wages do not include benifits, and last, none of these pay scales look line min wage McDonalds jobs as you claimed...
Click to expand...

So, your proof of $50/hour pay is a national survey that may or may not include Hostess workers that has no salaries that are near $50/hour? Anyways, this is just one quote, from one worker, but maybe this is why they said enough is enough and refused the latest offer.

Mike Hummell, a receiving clerk and a member of the Bakers' union working in Lenexa, Kan., said he was making about $48,000 in 2005 before the company's first trip through bankruptcy. Concessions during that reorganization cut his pay to $34,000 last year, earning $16.12 an hour. He said the latest contract demands would have cut his pay to about $25,000, with significantly higher out-of-pocket expenses for insurance.
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http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-workers/index.html
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
So you are in favor of gov't spending to protect employees rights. Nice to see mags. :)

And workers should join together to negotiate salaries and perks . . . or do you leave that all to the corporations to decide. Because those corporations, every now and then, will take advantage of their workers.
Click to expand...

I think the government should spend money in regulations of the physical and emotional "well-being" of it's citizens. I think the business or corporations should make their rules, in the confines of keeping legal, and the employees choose to either accept these rules and work with the company or choose to leave that business and find something they feel more comfortable working in.

What I don't like is when a union that could vote in favor 51% over 49% that they strike; without any real government interaction or regulation. They are at a point now where they are almost above the law. So the 49% that disagreed and are fine with the conditions pay the price because 51% of the forced union employment trade told them too?
 
porkchopexpress said:
So, your proof of $50/hour pay is a national survey that may or may not include Hostess workers that has no salaries that are near $50/hour? Anyways, this is just one quote, from one worker, but maybe this is why they said enough is enough and refused the latest offer.



http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-workers/index.html
Click to expand...

naw just a fast reference to wage scale of union bakerys vs McDonalds. jprk enjoys yanking things out of thin air at times...

recieving clerk would be under a different union..if i remember there were three unions that Hostess had to contend with, and the one that broke its back was the bakers union. Teir pay scale that was in place was higher..I could look it up ,but dont really think I need to..
 
DaLincolnJones said:
naw just a fast reference to wage scale of union bakerys vs McDonalds. jprk enjoys yanking things out of thin air at times...

recieving clerk would be under a different union..if i remember there were three unions that Hostess had to contend with, and the one that broke its back was the bakers union. Teir pay scale that was in place was higher..I could look it up ,but dont really think I need to..
Click to expand...

Nope, he was part of the bakers union (at least according to the article). But regardless, it shows the types of concessions that would have been required if they accepted the deal. It also shows that they've been conceding ALOT already. At some point it isn't worth it to work. Why work for 25k for a company that has cut your salary nearly 50% in 7 years.
 
jlprk said:
Was this a conservative blog? They probably found that 5% of the workers made that much and reported only the extreme. Theory #2: Often, a few management types rose out of the union. That's probably who the 50 per hour overpaid fatcats are.

Did the conservative blog tell you what the Hostess fatcats are making? Must have forgotten.
Click to expand...

Fuck no. I don't read conservative blogs. It was a news piece from one or two of the bigger news sites, mns.com, or something. Looking back, it wasn't an average of everyone. But it included people who were on the actual floor where Twinkies were being made.
 
porkchopexpress said:
Nope, he was part of the bakers union (at least according to the article). But regardless, it shows the types of concessions that would have been required if they accepted the deal. It also shows that they've been conceding ALOT already. At some point it isn't worth it to work. Why work for 25k for a company that has cut your salary nearly 50% in 7 years.
Click to expand...

Well why would a business owner lose money for 5 years in order to keep the business open? They do it because the hope that eventually the business will recover and eventually show profit. These union members could work for less; with some clause that a raise is in order after the company has a turn around. Maybe even have some sort of abritrator that can make sure the company is doing everything in its power to stay open.

Maybe Hostess was a dead company anyway. That's fine.... But there are good companies out there that are handcuffed by corrupt unions. It goes both ways. Whatever the case, the companies are employing and the workers are the cogs. Something must change for the machine to work cause most of these unions are running the machine to the ground.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
naw just a fast reference to wage scale of union bakerys vs McDonalds. jprk enjoys yanking things out of thin air at times...
Click to expand...

Examples?

DaLincolnJones said:
recieving clerk would be under a different union..if i remember there were three unions that Hostess had to contend with, and the one that broke its back was the bakers union. Teir pay scale that was in place was higher..I could look it up ,but dont really think I need to..
Click to expand...

Way to show how not to pull things out of the air.

DaLincolnJones said:
Industry: Bakery
Median Salary by Job Job National Salary Data (?
XAll compensation data shown are the gross, national median (50th percentile). Pay can vary greatly by location. To view local data, take the PayScale survey.
) $0 $23K $46K $69K
Pastry Chef $33,381
Baker $30,037
Production Supervisor $43,325
Production Supervisor, Manufacturing $54,429
Bakery Manager $36,597
General Manager, Restaurant $40,069
Production Manager, Manufacturing $68,483
Country: United States | Currency: USD | Updated: 7 Dec 2012 | Individuals Reporting: 600

pay attention to three things, this is an overall view, hostess was "production" wages, wages do not include benifits, and last, none of these pay scales look line min wage McDonalds jobs as you claimed...
Click to expand...

I keep seeing the word "manager" or "supervisor" which is the opposite of a union job. These job titles aren't related to what we're talking about.
 
lol at jlprk trying to spin this as a good thing for the easily replaceable union workers.
 
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